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Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed

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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1181 » by BIG Game » Fri May 10, 2019 4:16 pm

cjbulls wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
panthermark wrote: :o
You left off a zero...
I think you meant the #10 pick....right?


Why? A 22 year old 6’10 point guard thats nearly averaging a triple double would greatly improve the Bulls. He would be a great fit with this current roster too. He has his flaws but all 22 year olds do.


I would consider anything from 2 down for Ben Simmons. If they can’t get Ja/Garland then it’s a no brainer. I’d have a hard time if bulls end up with pick 2-4.

He’s ultra talented and the Bulls already have shooting at every other position. You just need a coach to use him right, not sure Boylen is the guy. I also have questions about his personality and attitude.

Also, Philly doesn’t want the pick, this would need to be some type of 3 team deal.


100% agree, the basketball world is giving up on a 22-year-old player who is struggling to live up to thier expectations. I think D. Russell is a good example of a guy the basketball world gave up on, and now hes looking like a Max player. You have to have patients, especially when you consider that Simmons best quality his IQ, and his measurable should improve with age. As an armchair GM I would consider it for the first, but Brand can have the Second.

I think the 6ers could use Ja, he would be a good pick up next to Harris, Butler, and Embiid
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1182 » by panthermark » Fri May 10, 2019 4:48 pm

BIG Game wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
Why? A 22 year old 6’10 point guard thats nearly averaging a triple double would greatly improve the Bulls. He would be a great fit with this current roster too. He has his flaws but all 22 year olds do.


I would consider anything from 2 down for Ben Simmons. If they can’t get Ja/Garland then it’s a no brainer. I’d have a hard time if bulls end up with pick 2-4.

He’s ultra talented and the Bulls already have shooting at every other position. You just need a coach to use him right, not sure Boylen is the guy. I also have questions about his personality and attitude.

Also, Philly doesn’t want the pick, this would need to be some type of 3 team deal.


100% agree, the basketball world is giving up on a 22-year-old player who is struggling to live up to thier expectations. I think D. Russell is a good example of a guy the basketball world gave up on, and now hes looking like a Max player. You have to have patients, especially when you consider that Simmons best quality his IQ, and his measurable should improve with age. As an armchair GM I would consider it for the first, but Brand can have the Second.

I think the 6ers could use Ja, he would be a good pick up next to Harris, Butler, and Embiid

Ummm......no.

The current meta of the game is three point shooting/efficiency.
He does not shoot threes....at all.
He is a poor FT shooter for a guard (60%). He does not even get to the line all that much (I think that will get better as he gets older).
Unless you plan on signing Brogdon to play a 3&D PG, play Simmons at PF, and Lauri at center, it is a bad fit.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1183 » by jump » Fri May 10, 2019 5:13 pm

If the Nets can sign Kyrie, and we draft Zion, would they consider trading Russell for WCJ, Dunn and a future protected 1st? Double IF, I know.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1184 » by cjbulls » Fri May 10, 2019 5:15 pm

panthermark wrote:
BIG Game wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
I would consider anything from 2 down for Ben Simmons. If they can’t get Ja/Garland then it’s a no brainer. I’d have a hard time if bulls end up with pick 2-4.

He’s ultra talented and the Bulls already have shooting at every other position. You just need a coach to use him right, not sure Boylen is the guy. I also have questions about his personality and attitude.

Also, Philly doesn’t want the pick, this would need to be some type of 3 team deal.


100% agree, the basketball world is giving up on a 22-year-old player who is struggling to live up to thier expectations. I think D. Russell is a good example of a guy the basketball world gave up on, and now hes looking like a Max player. You have to have patients, especially when you consider that Simmons best quality his IQ, and his measurable should improve with age. As an armchair GM I would consider it for the first, but Brand can have the Second.

I think the 6ers could use Ja, he would be a good pick up next to Harris, Butler, and Embiid

Ummm......no.

The current meta of the game is three point shooting/efficiency.
He does not shoot threes....at all.
He is a poor FT shooter for a guard (60%). He does not even get to the line all that much (I think that will get better as he gets older).
Unless you plan on signing Brogdon to play a 3&D PG, play Simmons at PF, and Lauri at center, it is a bad fit.


That fit is no better. You do not have rim protection if Ben Simmons and Lauri are your bigs. Simmons can work as a PG (because he is a PG) but you need to have good shooters around him. The Bulls are lucky to already have that in place with the current roster if you have confidence in the young guys all continuing to develop as expected.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1185 » by panthermark » Fri May 10, 2019 6:26 pm

cjbulls wrote:
That fit is no better. You do not have rim protection if Ben Simmons and Lauri are your bigs. Simmons can work as a PG (because he is a PG) but you need to have good shooters around him. The Bulls are lucky to already have that in place with the current roster if you have confidence in the young guys all continuing to develop as expected.


You are correct in that rim protection would suck with him at PF on defense.

Then again, I don't think you want 4 guys standing around waiting for passes from a PG that can't shoot. He is a better scorer than Rondo because he is 6'10, but he has the same flaws in terms of fit/skillset in this meta.

He is very talented, but very flawed.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1186 » by kodo » Fri May 10, 2019 6:37 pm

It's fantasy talk, but the Bulls are actually a great fit for Simmons.

- must guard 3 point threats at the 2, 3, and 4
- in the market for passing PG
- up & coming rim protector at the 5 with a very low ego who won't demand any touches, tends to pass the ball back to his guards
- rebuilding team with no Finals expectations; Simmons would be a hero if he just got Chicago to the playoffs
- age is a better fit, no vets like Jimmy Butler yelling at you for everything you did wrong last possession

I think Jimmy would have to resign for Simmons to be tradeable, that's far from a sure thing IMO.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1187 » by panthermark » Fri May 10, 2019 7:30 pm

kodo wrote:It's fantasy talk, but the Bulls are actually a great fit for Simmons.

- must guard 3 point threats at the 2, 3, and 4
- in the market for passing PG
- up & coming rim protector at the 5 with a very low ego who won't demand any touches, tends to pass the ball back to his guards
- rebuilding team with no Finals expectations; Simmons would be a hero if he just got Chicago to the playoffs
- age is a better fit, no vets like Jimmy Butler yelling at you for everything you did wrong last possession

I think Jimmy would have to resign for Simmons to be tradeable, that's far from a sure thing IMO.


Most (good) teams in the NBA have multiple (three) 3 point threats on the floor, some have more than three (see Golden State). I'd rather have a PG that can shoot threes and is a threat when the ball ISN"T is in his hands. That makes life for everyone else easier.
The only item I see that makes him a "good fit" is that we need a PG and that we are young.

His particular flaws are not a good fit. You really need to build your team around him, but I'm not sure if he is the kind of superstar you build a team around (can't shoot and does not get to the line much).
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1188 » by BIG Game » Fri May 10, 2019 7:47 pm

panthermark wrote:
BIG Game wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
I would consider anything from 2 down for Ben Simmons. If they can’t get Ja/Garland then it’s a no brainer. I’d have a hard time if bulls end up with pick 2-4.

He’s ultra talented and the Bulls already have shooting at every other position. You just need a coach to use him right, not sure Boylen is the guy. I also have questions about his personality and attitude.

Also, Philly doesn’t want the pick, this would need to be some type of 3 team deal.


100% agree, the basketball world is giving up on a 22-year-old player who is struggling to live up to thier expectations. I think D. Russell is a good example of a guy the basketball world gave up on, and now hes looking like a Max player. You have to have patients, especially when you consider that Simmons best quality his IQ, and his measurable should improve with age. As an armchair GM I would consider it for the first, but Brand can have the Second.

I think the 6ers could use Ja, he would be a good pick up next to Harris, Butler, and Embiid

Ummm......no.

The current meta of the game is three point shooting/efficiency.
He does not shoot threes....at all.
He is a poor FT shooter for a guard (60%). He does not even get to the line all that much (I think that will get better as he gets older).
Unless you plan on signing Brogdon to play a 3&D PG, play Simmons at PF, and Lauri at center, it is a bad fit.


My dad went to UNI. Their basketball team has fallen on hard times but back a couple years ago they were fun to watch.

Simmons is not a finished product; D. Rose could not shoot either and over time developed this year into a 37% shooter. J. Kidd could not shoot to save his life earlier in his career but developed into a good shooter by the end of his career. If you think Simmons is not dedicated to the game, then i can see why everyone is off him. However, I do not think that is the case, I think he is just 22 and in his own head. I also do not think his shooting with Zack, Potter, and Laurie on the court kills us. The league is not about shooting 3's it is about flexibility/versatility and star power. You want to be able to guard everything that could be thrown at you, punish the mismatch, and have a guy who can get a bucket at the end of games (This could be Simmons/Zack/Laurie). Simmons would have the ability to play in the post more often with us, and have driving lanes opened up for slashing. He just adds so much versatility to our lineups. He is a plus passer, rebounder, has the tools to be a plus defender, and could potentially play 5 positions. I also do not think we need Brogden, Simmons is 22 and fits with our core decently (age wise), while we would probably make the playoffs our expectations as a fan base should be tapered as we wait for this core to gel and learn to win together. I would go after Beverly&Taj for their demeanor as I think it will rub off on our young people. Then try to hold onto Lopez for more locker room stability.

My question to you is what is the minimum amount of shots taken and % he would have to shot from the line and from deep for you to move the 1st pick for him? In the same respect, what do those numbers look like for the 2nd pick?
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1189 » by panthermark » Fri May 10, 2019 9:10 pm

BIG Game wrote:
My dad went to UNI. Their basketball team has fallen on hard times but back a couple years ago they were fun to watch.

Simmons is not a finished product; D. Rose could not shoot either and over time developed this year into a 37% shooter. J. Kidd could not shoot to save his life earlier in his career but developed into a good shooter by the end of his career. If you think Simmons is not dedicated to the game, then i can see why everyone is off him. However, I do not think that is the case, I think he is just 22 and in his own head. I also do not think his shooting with Zack, Potter, and Laurie on the court kills us. The league is not about shooting 3's it is about flexibility/versatility and star power. You want to be able to guard everything that could be thrown at you, punish the mismatch, and have a guy who can get a bucket at the end of games (This could be Simmons/Zack/Laurie). Simmons would have the ability to play in the post more often with us, and have driving lanes opened up for slashing. He just adds so much versatility to our lineups. He is a plus passer, rebounder, has the tools to be a plus defender, and could potentially play 5 positions. I also do not think we need Brogden, Simmons is 22 and fits with our core decently (age wise), while we would probably make the playoffs our expectations as a fan base should be tapered as we wait for this core to gel and learn to win together. I would go after Beverly&Taj for their demeanor as I think it will rub off on our young people. Then try to hold onto Lopez for more locker room stability.

My question to you is what is the minimum amount of shots taken and % he would have to shot from the line and from deep for you to move the 1st pick for him? In the same respect, what do those numbers look like for the 2nd pick?


Ben Simmons went 1 from 3 from deep in college.....not in a game, in the entire season.
Ben Simmons is "technically" in his 3rd year, but has only played two seasons. In 160 regular season games, he is 0 for 17 from deep. In 21 play-off games, he is 0-1 from deep. The next three he hits will be his first since college, and his second since high school.

He isn't simply a poor outside shooter. He is historically awful for a guard, and he knows it, so he does not take them. Versatility is key, and the lack of an outside shot for a PG is BAD. But that is only half the problem. He is also a poor FT shooter for a guard, and does not get to the line much for a 6'10 guard that can't shoot. He might be the last guy on the floor I want with the ball in his hands at the end of a game.

Throw in the fact that he is about to enter into the 4th year of his contract....which means he is eligible for an extension, and it becomes an easy "hard pass" on any pick in the single digits for me. He would have to make a historical change in his game (in both attempts and makes) to make him worth a top two pick.

He "could' become a decent 3 point shooter, but that is the risk I'd let some other GM take.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1190 » by Nikola » Fri May 10, 2019 10:37 pm

panthermark wrote:
BIG Game wrote:
My dad went to UNI. Their basketball team has fallen on hard times but back a couple years ago they were fun to watch.

Simmons is not a finished product; D. Rose could not shoot either and over time developed this year into a 37% shooter. J. Kidd could not shoot to save his life earlier in his career but developed into a good shooter by the end of his career. If you think Simmons is not dedicated to the game, then i can see why everyone is off him. However, I do not think that is the case, I think he is just 22 and in his own head. I also do not think his shooting with Zack, Potter, and Laurie on the court kills us. The league is not about shooting 3's it is about flexibility/versatility and star power. You want to be able to guard everything that could be thrown at you, punish the mismatch, and have a guy who can get a bucket at the end of games (This could be Simmons/Zack/Laurie). Simmons would have the ability to play in the post more often with us, and have driving lanes opened up for slashing. He just adds so much versatility to our lineups. He is a plus passer, rebounder, has the tools to be a plus defender, and could potentially play 5 positions. I also do not think we need Brogden, Simmons is 22 and fits with our core decently (age wise), while we would probably make the playoffs our expectations as a fan base should be tapered as we wait for this core to gel and learn to win together. I would go after Beverly&Taj for their demeanor as I think it will rub off on our young people. Then try to hold onto Lopez for more locker room stability.

My question to you is what is the minimum amount of shots taken and % he would have to shot from the line and from deep for you to move the 1st pick for him? In the same respect, what do those numbers look like for the 2nd pick?


Ben Simmons went 1 from 3 from deep in college.....not in a game, in the entire season.
Ben Simmons is "technically" in his 3rd year, but has only played two seasons. In 160 regular season games, he is 0 for 17 from deep. In 21 play-off games, he is 0-1 from deep. The next three he hits will be his first since college, and his second since high school.

He isn't simply a poor outside shooter. He is historically awful for a guard, and he knows it, so he does not take them. Versatility is key, and the lack of an outside shot for a PG is BAD. But that is only half the problem. He is also a poor FT shooter for a guard, and does not get to the line much for a 6'10 guard that can't shoot. He might be the last guy on the floor I want with the ball in his hands at the end of a game.

Throw in the fact that he is about to enter into the 4th year of his contract....which means he is eligible for an extension, and it becomes an easy "hard pass" on any pick in the single digits for me. He would have to make a historical change in his game (in both attempts and makes) to make him worth a top two pick.

He "could' become a decent 3 point shooter, but that is the risk I'd let some other GM take.

I don't think he is a super winning player for these reasons. Sadly I think his ball handling and passing skills will eventually have to be less used and could actually see him playing a center like role on offense.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1191 » by drosereturn » Sat May 11, 2019 3:49 am

Trade the 4th pick +dunn for lakers 11th pick + lonzo ball.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1192 » by Chicagoat » Sat May 11, 2019 3:58 am

Showtime23 wrote:Trade the 4th pick +dunn for lakers 11th pick + lonzo ball.
lol

Why would the Bulls do that.

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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1193 » by Bulls Fan 23 » Sat May 11, 2019 4:43 am

Lonzo is trash, no thanks
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1194 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Sat May 11, 2019 6:33 am

noooo to Ball! Rather have Simmons,if..
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1195 » by StunnerKO » Sat May 11, 2019 11:38 am

Read on Twitter
?s=21
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1196 » by sco » Sat May 11, 2019 1:27 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21

But they're in NYC :banghead:

I want those 2 back.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1197 » by navdeep_singh » Mon May 13, 2019 5:19 pm

What would it take to get Simmons? Too much? Where would he fit in here?
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1198 » by panthermark » Mon May 13, 2019 7:12 pm

navdeep_singh wrote:What would it take to get Simmons? Too much? Where would he fit in here?


I will give them Dunn and a 2024, top 29 protected 1st...if not conveyed, it turns into a 2nd rounder in 2026.

(I'm clearly not a fan of Simmons).

In terms of "fit", I don't think he fits anywhere until he learns how to shoot from outside of 10 feet and hit FT's. You basically have to build a team "around" him, and I'm not sure if he is good enough to build a team around right now. Of course, if he was a decent shooter, he would be one of the top players in the league....but that is the rub.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1199 » by sco » Mon May 13, 2019 8:28 pm

navdeep_singh wrote:What would it take to get Simmons? Too much? Where would he fit in here?

I know there is the other thread, but I think we fall in love with prior, underperforming top picks with the hope of drastic improvement. I'm in the camp of only trading picks for guys who are proven.
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Re: Trade Thread: Armchair GMs welcomed 

Post#1200 » by sco » Wed May 15, 2019 12:47 pm

I wonder how things will shake out in NO. Looks like AD wants out. What if LA trades #4 (Garland) and Kuzma for AD? Better yet, NY trades #3 and Knox and Robinson? Could we use #7 and filler to get Holiday?
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