Rumor: Bulls Looking at Martell Webster

[Three34]

Let's list Martell Webster's above average abilities. I'll start us off with open jumpshooting.

[C.lupus]

Uhhh, he's well spoken and has above average interview skills.

[Leslie Forman]

Let's list Martell Webster's above average abilities. I'll start us off with open jumpshooting.

Is even this really true though? His shooting percentages are pretty average and even his free throw shooting is about average.

[panthermark]

Webster is just kinda "blah" for us....

Unless he is dirt cheap....I'll pass.

His impact to Chicago is minimal because we are are looking for a specific type of SG.

[dookieguy]

Wow, no offense to the vets, but a lot of ignorant Bulls fans on this board.

JJ better than Webster? Really guys? Same game as Kyle Korver?

If you think he's just a jumpshooter you're terribly wrong. He's a good athlete with great size who can not only shoot really well but put the ball on the floor. He's not a defensive stopper, but he's not terrible either.

He's been a terrific 6th man for the Wolves and one of the most consistent wings on the team. He finally fixed a long lingering back problem and is looking terrific so far.

His contract's pretty much a bargain, and I don't see Minny giving him up, even for the GOAT Taj Gibson.

Well I didn't take any offense to what you wrote since you're just an ignorant Heat fan, no offense ok?

JJ is better than Webster, have you ever even seen JJ play? I'm guessing you haven't, actually you may have seen him play against your team last season? One of the only games he was able to start since Luol was injured, and finally getting his chance he showed that he could contribute given the chance [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe99GCMHN88[/youtube]


Let's not dare compare him to the great Martell Webster who has been in the league for almost 6 seasons now and after a huge breakout allstar season has career averages of 8pts and 3 rebs, with less than 1 assist, half a steal and not even 1/3 of a block in 23 mins a game...numbers that Johnson has matched or exceeded in under 11 mins a game in this his 2nd season (assists, blocks and steals)

Johnson also has shot the ball pretty poorly over his career, yet still has a higher fg% than Webster, is a better rebounder and defender...how dare anyone insinuate JJ is better, in his 2nd season Webster was tearing up the league

Put JJ on a terrible team like the Twolves where he'd have an opportunity to play and he'd have much better all round numbers than Martell Scrubster

Don't forget turnovers. 5.4 to's per36?? He must be a league leader per48. lmao. And geezus, you seriously say he's better because of a slight advantage in assists, steals, and blocks? lmao

Webster's shooting 48%. Try again.

And dude, did you bother to read what I wrote? Why the **** would you compare JJ to Webster in his 2nd year when I'm talking about right now?

And you do realize that they're only about 3 months apart in age differential, right?

Come on man. JJ is indeed a talented player and I see a lot of potential to grow, but between him and Webster it's no contest. The dude's averaging less than 4ppg for ****'s sake. And if you think you'd rather have him than Webster right now, I feel sorry for Derrick Rose.

[jpatrick]

This looks like the Twolves thread when we traded the 16th pick for him, lots of venom toward Kahn at the time. However, despite the short sample people have pretty much done a 180 on him. He was clearly our best player in preseason and has been very very good since coming back from a back surgery for a problem that has been causing him pain for years.

His biggest problem is that he seems injury prone. His first two years you kind of have to give him a pass because he was a high school to the NBA guy and when he started to get things figured out he had a major injury that caused him to miss a full year. I'm not sure what the issue was last year.

He's an average athlete and defender for a wing, not terrible as I've read on here and a very good shooter, maybe not Korver, but close. He's lost some weight coming into this year which I think has helped his quickness. He's also pretty crafty with the ball and thus can occaisonally get to the rim although that's not his strength. I think Portland basically told him to stand in the corner waiting for the ball to be rotated so he never go to show his complete game.

All in all, he's been our third best player since he came back. Would it be crushing if he was traded? No, but I can't see us giving him away and the Bulls don't really have anything that you'd be willing to move that makes sense, just bad trade partners.

I do like how people make it sound like he's this crusty vet who couldn't have "improved" this year. Webster just turned 24 earlier this month. He's a full year and a half younger than Taj Gibson.

[dookieguy]

Wow, no offense to the vets, but a lot of ignorant Bulls fans on this board.

JJ better than Webster? Really guys? Same game as Kyle Korver?

If you think he's just a jumpshooter you're terribly wrong. He's a good athlete with great size who can not only shoot really well but put the ball on the floor. He's not a defensive stopper, but he's not terrible either.

He's been a terrific 6th man for the Wolves and one of the most consistent wings on the team. He finally fixed a long lingering back problem and is looking terrific so far.

His contract's pretty much a bargain, and I don't see Minny giving him up, even for the GOAT Taj Gibson.

Wow, no offense to you, but a lot of ignorant fans addressing Bulls fans in this thread.

I don't defend JJ as being better than Webster (or better than just about anyone). My point is that you come in here calling others ignorant when your main argument is that Webster has been "consistent"-- when he has played all of 8 games. 8 games. Many of us watched Webster for years on Portland. We watched him be a more capablel SF than SG, which is one of the reasons why some of us wouldn't want to trade for him. We saw his physical tools, which made him capable of playing defense, and also saw him fail to use those tools for defense. For years. We saw him play streakily, sometimes putting together-- dare I say it?-- as many as 8 nice games in a row, only to fall back to earth later.

Maybe he has turned the corner and is everything that Minny hoped he would be, and we'll be able to forget the fact that Minny wanted the league to take action against Portland for having traded them an injured player. That might be. Also might not be. You're gonna need a whole lot more than 8 games to know. (And if you want to include summer league, I have a whole slew of guys who did likewise and who now wave "hi" from the D-League).

I have no personal stake in Martell Webster or his success. The Wolves and their fans deserve some good breaks. But I don't take kindly to the condescending accusations of ignorance (that have surfaced more than once in this thread) by people who base their own claims of consistency on an 8 game stretch. The very definition of irony.

I was sincere when I said I meant no offense, but when I saw posts about him sucking or that they would only offer goddamn Keith Bogans, I just felt irritated by the Bulls fans' remarks and homeristic overvaluing of their players.

I mean come on, you gotta admit, calling Webster a scrub and sayinh JJ is better than him? LOL

I'm not a Webster fan (if there happens to be one), or even a Minny fan. I just follow their games because of their youth, and I can tell ya Webster's just been great for them. He's been consistent in providing perimeter scoring ever since he arrived in Minny. He was backtracked with that back surgery but hasn't lost a step since coming back from it. I watch the Twolves and I've never seen a bad game from him. That's what I'm basing my consistency on, not just by stats.

He definitely looks to have revived his career in Minnesota. All I'm saying is that he would be a grwat fit in Chicago.

[Ron Harper]

JJ is still unplayable. It amazes me some think his 5 turnovers and 4 fouls in 18 minutes of play routine is just going to disappear. He needs playing time, I agree. He has the talent and the willingness to do and try everything out on the court.

But at what expense do you give JJ his time? He has to be a garbage minute player. You throw him into the rotation and the second he gets his 3rd foul in the first half, the rotations are off all game. The second a defensive SG gets up on him, he's leaving his feet or is too quick to put the ball on the floor. He is disruptive out there because he is so raw still.

I think Thibs views JJ as a practice player only right now. He could throw him in for junk minutes, but it's really hard to correct bad habits in-game and especially during blowouts when the play is looser and sets aren't really being run. Where is the plus there for JJ? Random minutes so fans can call for him to get into the rotation?

He's not there yet. I love JJs game, or the good part of it. But it seems some or ignoring the gaping holes in his game that affect him, the team, and the W column if he were to play more. You say the Bulls carry Bogans through victories? Foul trouble and turnovers are a very real part of why a player cannot crack the rotation. It's called consistency and accountability. It is what makes the good players professionals. JJ is not there...yet.

[panthermark]

He definitely looks to have revived his career in Minnesota. All I'm saying is that he would be a grwat fit in Chicago.

He is an OK fit...but I'm not sure if he is a great fit. If he isn't much of a defender of SG's, then he joins the long list of SG's that are "OK", but flawed for what we need. His track record right now is a bit suspect....301 games as a very poor shooter, and 8 games as a very good shooter.

Is he better than JJ or Bogans? Yes.......but that is not a hard feat to accomplish.

[WookieOnRitalin]

Martell is just an upgrade over Bogans and you lose defense. With that said, I've always liked him. I liked him back in 05 when he was drafted. Thought he had the makings of a Ray Allen type of player. Clearly that was a bit misguided, but lets also keep in mind that this kid JUST turned 24 three weeks ago.

I think given the opportunity, he could be a great rotation player for us.

My preference list.

1: Mayo
2: Jackson
3: Webster
4: Lee

I say shrink your list to that. Find the best deal and move on. It's like buying a car. You know you're going to own it at MINIMUM a few years so you want to make a solid investment while getting the most value for the price. All we need to do is limit our search and find the best deal. Create leverage. If nobody is dealing, then we have to move on to something else.

[Ben]

I was sincere when I said I meant no offense, but when I saw posts about him sucking or that they would only offer goddamn Keith Bogans, I just felt irritated by the Bulls fans' remarks and homeristic overvaluing of their players.

I mean come on, you gotta admit, calling Webster a scrub and sayinh JJ is better than him? LOL

I'm not a Webster fan (if there happens to be one), or even a Minny fan. I just follow their games because of their youth, and I can tell ya Webster's just been great for them. He's been consistent in providing perimeter scoring ever since he arrived in Minny. He was backtracked with that back surgery but hasn't lost a step since coming back from it. I watch the Twolves and I've never seen a bad game from him. That's what I'm basing my consistency on, not just by stats.

He definitely looks to have revived his career in Minnesota. All I'm saying is that he would be a grwat fit in Chicago.

OK, well, you handled that very civilly and I give you credit. Thanks.
As to your points, there really aren't many people saying that JJ is better than Webster. Is it more than one? Maybe two? Most of us have said that it wouldn't be a good match b/c Webster isn't best used as a shooting guard (defensively), whereas we need someone to play that spot, and b/c we don't have the pieces to trade for him at any rate. So the whole "rumor" didn't make much sense to most of us in the first place.

[panthermark]

Martell is just an upgrade over Bogans and you lose defense. With that said, I've always liked him. I liked him back in 05 when he was drafted. Thought he had the makings of a Ray Allen type of player. Clearly that was a bit misguided, but lets also keep in mind that this kid JUST turned 24 three weeks ago.

I think given the opportunity, he could be a great rotation player for us.

My preference list.

1: Mayo
2: Jackson
3: Webster
4: Lee

I say shrink your list to that. [b}Find the best deal and move on. It's like buying a car. You know you're going to own it at MINIMUM a few years so you want to make a solid investment while getting the most value for the price. All we need to do is limit our search and find the best deal. Create leverage. If nobody is dealing, then we have to move on to something else.[/b]

Exactly!
I have Smith on my list because of cost (creates leverage), and I don't have Webster...mostly because this rumor has not been verified...but he does fit the age/salary/possible cost critieria.
I agree with what you are getting at.
Car shopping is a perfect analogy, and creating leverage to find the best deal is exactly what we need to do.

[kyrv]

Martell is just an upgrade over Bogans and you lose defense. With that said, I've always liked him. I liked him back in 05 when he was drafted. Thought he had the makings of a Ray Allen type of player. Clearly that was a bit misguided, but lets also keep in mind that this kid JUST turned 24 three weeks ago.

I think given the opportunity, he could be a great rotation player for us.

My preference list.

1: Mayo
2: Jackson
3: Webster
4: Lee

I say shrink your list to that. Find the best deal and move on. It's like buying a car. You know you're going to own it at MINIMUM a few years so you want to make a solid investment while getting the most value for the price. All we need to do is limit our search and find the best deal. Create leverage. If nobody is dealing, then we have to move on to something else.

Well do you really think Webster and Lee are both better than both Korver and Brewer? Webster and Lee aren't good defenders, worse than Bogans, and shoot 37-38% 3's.

I guess I'm asking, if Bogans wasn't playing, like he shouldn't be, are they better to give up assets for as opposed to the guys already on the team, who are arguably as good if not better.

Mayo and Jackson, while both risks, bring things that the team doesn't have and can use.

[panthermark]

Well do you really think Webster and Lee are both better than both Korver and Brewer? Webster and Lee aren't good defenders, worse than Bogans, and shoot 37-38% 3's.

I guess I'm asking, if Bogans wasn't playing, like he shouldn't be, are they better to give up assets for as opposed to the guys already on the team, who are arguably as good if not better.

Mayo and Jackson, while both risks, bring things that the team doesn't have and can use.

Honestly, it depends on the assets given up.

I think Lee is a fine defender...what he did in Orlando as a starter would be fine for what we need in a 5th starter. What Lee has proven (in NJ) is that he cannot be a #1, #2, or #3 option...he simply does not have the talent for it. Of course the sticking point is the cost to get him... But his current/future salary is a bonus.

All of the players we are looking at are better than Bogans, and are better outside shooters than Brewer, and I'm guessing better defenders than Korver. It would be great if we could find a player that was a better defender than Brewer, and a better shooter than Korver. But I don't think that will happen.

We just have the find the best mix and the best value.

[panthermark]

Latest rumor in the other thread.....
Minny is looking hard at Mayo...

So....does this lower the price of Webster?

If the price if low enough....does he make the "short list"?

[chadrucf]

Latest rumor in the other thread.....
Minny is looking hard at Mayo...

So....does this lower the price of Webster?

If the price if low enough....does he make the "short list"?

How low can you go? Maybe Boagns/JJ/2nd? 1st? Brewer?

[panthermark]

Latest rumor in the other thread.....
Minny is looking hard at Mayo...

So....does this lower the price of Webster?

If the price if low enough....does he make the "short list"?

How low can you go? Maybe Boagns/JJ/2nd? 1st? Brewer?

I don't know...
I would love to get the best player back with this collection of "assets" and salary:
2011 1st
Bogans (exp)
Scal (exp)
James Johnson
$3M cash
Watson....but only if another PG is coming back.

I doubt if we can get Lee for that. I'm sure we could get Smith for that.

I would prefer Webster over Garcia because he is younger, and his 2012-13 salary is only guaranteed for $600K.

If the Wolves are involved....I'm going to remove Mayo from my short list. He can join Afflalo on my "I doubt we can land him at this point" list.

[chadrucf]

I agree with your summary. However, I would obviously expand that resource list for a Jackson-type, including Brewer. For Mayo, and in any two guard deal, I'd love to hang onto Gibson. I feel that giving up Gibson for a two-guard would be too much, as the plus of the new SG would be offset to a large degree by Gibson's departure. So my philosophy is we should get the best available SG we can without giving up Gibson. That may be a Smith. I hope it's a Mayo. And it could end up being Jackson.

[BJ43]

And geezus, you seriously say he's better because of a slight advantage in assists, steals, and blocks? lmao

Webster's shooting 48%. Try again.

And dude, did you bother to read what I wrote? Why the **** would you compare JJ to Webster in his 2nd year when I'm talking about right now?

And you do realize that they're only about 3 months apart in age differential, right?

Come on man. JJ is indeed a talented player and I see a lot of potential to grow, but between him and Webster it's no contest. The dude's averaging less than 4ppg for ****'s sake. And if you think you'd rather have him than Webster right now, I feel sorry for Derrick Rose.

Firstly those slight advantages come despite a big difference in mins played, and how slight is double the blocks?

I wrote for his career, so no Webster isnt shooting 48% for his career, it's 8 games so YOU try again

3months apart in age, and 6yrs vs less than 1.5yrs of experience, so what's your point?

Oh it indeed is no contest, JJ is better.

OH NO he's only averaging 4pts?? What would you like him to average in less than 11 mins a game

Don't feel sorry for Derrick Rose, he's awesome

[panthermark]

I agree with your summary. However, I would obviously expand that resource list for a Jackson-type, including Brewer. For Mayo, and in any two guard deal, I'd love to hang onto Gibson. I feel that giving up Gibson for a two-guard would be too much, as the plus of the new SG would be offset to a large degree by Gibson's departure. So my philosophy is we should get the best available SG we can without giving up Gibson. That may be a Smith. I hope it's a Mayo. And it could end up being Jackson.

I agree...
I basically have "two levels" of SG.

#1 Best we can get without giving up Taj (but the Cat's pick is in play).
Lee (a very steep price for such a player)
S-Jax "should" be here...but right now they want Taj...and that is crazy.

#2 Best we can get without giving up Taj or the Cat's pick.
Smith
Webster?

I'm guessing Minny will soon price Mayo out of the market for us. But, I would consider S-Jax if they stop requesting Taj. However, I keep coming back to that knucklehead Smith....only because his price could be uber cheap. He isn't really the guy I want, but if the price is cheap enough.....sure....