Asik Discussion. Pg 50 Sheridan: Bulls will match

[blumeany]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop
Don't get why it's so assumed Bulls won't match Asik. Matching gives 2 years to figure out how to address 14-15.

Yes, in theory, that 3rd year should be 'easy' to move. But....what if it isn't?

[1rage]

I'm stuck in a quandary. If the Bulls match - they retain the Turkish Hammer and he continues to anchor the best defense in the league - on which happens to be my favorite team.

If they don't match he goes to Houston, becomes a starter and plays big minutes. And I get to see him 35 times a year at the Toyota Center.

the best scenario for him would probably be the Houston offer since he would be able to start, thus more development, and have more access to all time great big men to work on other facets of his game.

I'm selfish and would like for him to be with the Bulls though if possible. He'd still be able to pick the mind of Thibs. He can still reach out to hof bigs if he wants to, just not as accessible.

[heirdog]

In that 3rd year, he's a nice expiring contract that can be shipped off for another asset if necessary. Or he develops into a game changing force by then and we decide to just amnesty Boozer. Either way, we get him on a good deal for 2 years.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop
Don't get why it's so assumed Bulls won't match Asik. Matching gives 2 years to figure out how to address 14-15.

Yes, in theory, that 3rd year should be 'easy' to move. But....what if it isn't?

I suspect it won't take us until year 3 to come up with a plan and all the necessary contingencies. I think it really comes down to just how much this team and Thibs values Omer - and what type of player they suspect he might become in two years.

Everyone keeps referring to him as the backup - but it might be that the Bulls see him as an eventual starter(core player) and have a plan to move other pieces around.

[BuffaloBull]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop
Don't get why it's so assumed Bulls won't match Asik. Matching gives 2 years to figure out how to address 14-15.

The mouthpiece sending signals we intend to match?

I kind of agree with KC. We have a couple of years to decide what we do with Noah/Asik, if either of them are still here in two years.


I think people really underestimate what the Bulls/Thibs think of Asik. The FO drafted and closely watched this kid for two years while he played overseas. He came here and Thibs immediately made him a part of the rotation.

He is hihly thought of in this organization i suspect. I don't think they balk at the contract he was offered or what it means to them.

I've thought since the start that the Bulls match because Asik is their only true 5. Joakim's really a 4/5, and they've talked about him that way (Scal talking about Jo playing the KG role defensively, etc).

If you don't match, you're hoping you can bring in somebody good, but that takes time, especially at the 5. You either overpay (always overpay, with 5s) to get a known quantity, or draft a guy and hope he develops into something. Which almost always takes around 2-3 years. I mean we drafted Omer same time as Rose, let him develop overseas. Mirotic is marinating right now. If we had an internal Omer replacement lined up, you'd expect he would've been acquired already.

How much did Kwame make last year? 7 mill? 8 mill a year for Omer is fine. Especially when you look at what he was paid for the first two years, 5 years of Omer for a total cost of 36 million or so is completely reasonable, and what you would pay for a good backup center.

The other major reason I believe he's retained is how Thibs uses his players. Omer and Taj win games for us. He trusts them like they were starters, and I think they respond to that. So when Thibs goes to Omer and Taj at the end of the game, it's not because he's knocking Booz and Noah, it's typically because Omer and Taj have been balling out, and earned the opportunity to finish that game. Then everybody wants to make it into some challenge to the existing heirarchy or knock on the starters when really Thibs is just going by what he thinks will win that game.

And that attitude gives us that many more opportunities to win games. Most teams can't withstand a bad game from their key guys, but especially in our frontcourt, the Bulls can.

Combine that with the fact that our big depth allows them to go full out when they are out there on the court, knowing their backup is waiting to tag in, and it makes it an easy match to me.

[AAU Teammate]

Even if Asik is a 'nice expiring contract' - you will still likely be getting back a player for that expiring contract...and THAT will put you into the tax

So unless Carlos is dealt earlier...or Noah... we still have a concern.

[blumeany]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop
RT @domzilla10: hey @KCJHoop can I borrow $20K. I'll give you $20 this year and next and I'll figure out how to pay the other $19,960 later!

[Magilla_Gorilla]

K.C Johnson ‏@KCJHoop
RT @domzilla10: hey @KCJHoop can I borrow $20K. I'll give you $20 this year and next and I'll figure out how to pay the other $19,960 later!

Thats pretty funny.

[1rage]

Where did the other $20 go?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Where did the other $20 go?

20 this year and 20 next.

[heirdog]

Where did the other $20 go?

$20 each year...this and next...so $40 total.

[1rage]

skipped over the "next" part lol gotcha

[heirdog]

Even if Asik is a 'nice expiring contract' - you will still likely be getting back a player for that expiring contract...and THAT will put you into the tax

So unless Carlos is dealt earlier...or Noah... we still have a concern.

I agree. I just don't think we should give up 2 years of $5 mill Asik cause the albatross Boozer contract. We should dump Boozer at some point for whatever bad contract that has one year less...

Gibson (PF) and Asik (C) or
Noah (PF) and Asik (C) or
Gibson and Noah with Asik off the bench

[Bruteque]

In that 3rd year, he's a nice expiring contract that can be shipped off for another asset if necessary. Or he develops into a game changing force by then and we decide to just amnesty Boozer. Either way, we get him on a good deal for 2 years.

For the last time, guys, while a lot people hear "large expiring" they think it automatically has positive value, that simply is not the case. What has positive value is your team's willingness to take on unwanted salary, the large expiring simply makes it possible for your team to make use of its willingness to take on unwanted salary for assets. Asik at $15 mil in that third year will be an albatross, albeit a short albatross that teams looking to get rid of even worse committed money will send assets for.

Do you honestly think that the Bulls will be looking to take on even worse committed money for Asik in year three? Heck friggin no if we keep Noah and re-sign Taj. It will be $~45 mil tied up in three players ($~60m with Asik) even taking amnestying Boozer for granted, which I am not sure will even happen. It will be more like the Bulls will need to send some team with cap room assets just to take on Asik's short albatross. Yeah, for the Rockets, Asik may be useful in that third year as a large expiring to make use of their willingness to take on unwanted salary for assets, but not for the Bulls. The Bulls will be more likely looking to shed salary by then.

[AAU Teammate]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I think so much of Asik that I'd like to keep him right now and immediately do something with one of the other long term contracts.

Not sure what, but I think Omer is plenty valuable.

[heirdog]

In that 3rd year, he's a nice expiring contract that can be shipped off for another asset if necessary. Or he develops into a game changing force by then and we decide to just amnesty Boozer. Either way, we get him on a good deal for 2 years.

For the last time, guys, while a lot people hear "large expiring" they think it automatically has positive value, that simply is not the case. What has positive value is your team's willingness to take on unwanted salary, the large expiring simply makes it possible for your team to make use of its willingness to take on unwanted salary for assets. Asik at $15 mil in that third year will be an albatross, albeit a short albatross that teams looking to get rid of even worse committed money will send assets for.

Do you honestly think that the Bulls will be looking to take on even worse committed money for Asik in year three? Heck friggin no if we keep Noah and re-sign Taj. It will be $~45 mil tied up in three players ($~60m with Asik) even taking amnestying Boozer for granted, which I am not sure will even happen. It will be more like the Bulls will need to send some team with cap room assets just to take on Asik's short albatross. Yeah, for the Rockets, Asik may be useful in that third year as a large expiring to make use of their willingness to take on unwanted salary for assets, but not for the Bulls. The Bulls will be more likely looking to shed salary by then.

Look at the contracts of all the mid level to even lower tier centers that got deals or offers, they average about $14-$15 mill. and that's not in the final year which is often higher. Asik will be plenty valuable even at $15 mill per...perhaps just not to the Bulls depending on who is on the team by then. There are assets to be had that might match better with what the Bulls want/need at the time. Maybe Miami needs Asik more to battle Dwight in NJ and so we trade him and some other salary for Bosh. The value we received in 2 years at $5 mill with an expiring $15 mill is plenty worthy. Poison pill? That was swallowed with Boozer 2 years ago.

[LoveDaBoo]

I'm stuck in a quandary. If the Bulls match - they retain the Turkish Hammer and he continues to anchor the best defense in the league - on which happens to be my favorite team.

A backup anchors our defense?

[heirdog]

I'm stuck in a quandary. If the Bulls match - they retain the Turkish Hammer and he continues to anchor the best defense in the league - on which happens to be my favorite team.

A backup anchors our defense?

Yes, when it matters most...in the 4th quarters of playoff games.

[85Bears]

I want them to match and believe they will. I wonder how many posters on this board revile the Bulls for not paying the tax and being cheap but still don't want us to re-sign Omer because he is too costly. I want the Bulls to sign him so it will end the Bulls are cheap talk. I also do not believe having max cap space gets you a star any more than having an expiring large salary. If Eric Gordon is forced to stay in NO but is demanding a trade in the same year Omer is a $14 million expiring, why is that bad to have that paper?

Stars demanding trades prior to becoming a FA seems to be more normal than just testing the market.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I'm stuck in a quandary. If the Bulls match - they retain the Turkish Hammer and he continues to anchor the best defense in the league - on which happens to be my favorite team.

A backup anchors our defense?

Have you seen who is playing the fourth quarters and when the game is on the line?