Which Trio would you prefer?

[Magilla_Gorilla]

The pace thing is the biggest reason I cringe at people comparing ASIK to Noah. And I'm not some Noah nut-huggger. I'd give him up for Aldridge. But he's plainly better than asik and there's no way around that.

PER36 stats were as good as his previous years in Chicago, if not worse IIRC. So pace would be an argument if he wasn't out doing the same thing with us before.

Asiks per36 stats increased significantly in Houston. That's at least partially due to the pace at which Houston played.

[League Circles]

They both play opposite sides of the ball. Are you saying, Noah's defense is better than Melo's offense? I disagree strongly. I also disagree in that Noah is better defensively than Asik. Offensively, he is. But if I have Melo and Rose on my team, I don't need Asik to score, I need him to defend and board.

Well, they both play both sides of the ball, not sure why anyone would say that either Melo or Noah is all offense or defense. I do think, for a C, Noah's offense is better than Melo's defense. But that's not the main point. I think Melo can be, and in fact is, the #1 guy on a good team. Noah could never be that (offensively). Thing is, I just don't think Melo has the mentality to effectively play second option, which he'd always be here IMO because the ball starts in Rose's hands so #1 option will always be for him to drive. Allen Iverson was similar to Melo in that regard - could be a good #1 but never a title #1. I'd rather have a title-quality defensive anchor who can do special things at C in terms of running the floor, handling and passing the ball, than have a guy like Melo.

And to me, a starting or closing lineup with Omer, Taj, and Butler is way too limited offensively. You definitely need more than 2.5 guys to be threats to score. I mean, look at Miami - they play with, at most, one guy who isn't a threat to score. We're OK with Asik or Taj in there - not both most of the time IMO.

The problem IMO is that Rose and Melo wouldn't really play off each other well, because, well, Melo doesn't play off of anyone well.

[ChiefILL53]

Is there an option for Melo/DR/Noah?

A lot of you guys have made good points on whether you can win a title with Melo on the roster. At one point Melo was my favorite player because of his flat out versatility on offense. Id love to see how he would play under Thibs, but then again, I dont because he seems to have the kind of attitude where he doesnt like the coach challenging him too much, and we all know Thibs wouldnt be having none of that BS (seeing that he's benched Boozer). I do think Thibs would have Melo playing smarter, I just dont know about Melo's capacity to endure being a #2 option and taking coaching from Thibs.

[chadrucf]

^^^ The hypothetical being "discussed" is just a rehash of the Anthony trade threads. The deal on the table was:

Deng/Noah/Picks for Anthony

[Former Roy]

So Melo doesn't make his teammates better?

He'd relieve pressure from D-Rose and be a TRUE 1a/1b option...

Teammate = better

...and the most IMPORTANT one at that..

[Former Roy]

Superstars win championships

Rose/Melo/Asik

Yep, look how many Melo has won.

NOBODY wins titles by themselves...

Bulls fans on THIS site LOVE to underrate star players/scorers on OTHER teams..

It's getting to be ridiculous..

Melo's not good enough, Aldridge isn't either...

[chadrucf]

So Melo doesn't make his teammates better?

He'd relieve pressure from D-Rose and be a TRUE 1a/1b option...

Teammate = better

...and the most IMPORTANT one at that..

The point being made is that he hasn't made his teammates better in his 10 year career. It may seem logical to you that he would make Rose better, but there hasn't been any evidence of Anthony having this effect up until this point.

[chadrucf]

It's getting to be ridiculous..

Melo's not good enough, Aldridge isn't either...

It's not about being good enough in a vacuum. It's all about the asking prices.

Is Anthony worth Deng/Noah/Picks?

Is Aldridge worth Butler/Noah/Picks?

[Former Roy]

[quote="nitetrain8603"]Maybe I need to balance out my posting by going to the General Board more, because Bulls fans have officially gone crazy when it comes to overvaluing our players. [quote]

Tell me about it bro...

I've been thinking about that same thing for months now...

[Former Roy]

[quote="BIGGIEsmalls 23"]
Regarding the behind the back pass from Cousins, I'm confident that I could find similar passes from the best passing Center in the NBA...Joakim Noah. [quote]

Marc Gasol is the BEST passing center in the NBA....

[boozapalooza]

I'd take Rose/Deng/Noah any day. Melo isnt a winner, he doesnt defend well enough. He would want to be the main man here, when its clearly Rose's team. Wouldnt have been a good fit. And obviously Noah over Asik. Asik got his time during that Philly series when Noah was hurt, and quite frankly he was awful. Especially when it counted. The thought of him instead of Jo makes me want to puke

[nitetrain8603]

They both play opposite sides of the ball. Are you saying, Noah's defense is better than Melo's offense? I disagree strongly. I also disagree in that Noah is better defensively than Asik. Offensively, he is. But if I have Melo and Rose on my team, I don't need Asik to score, I need him to defend and board.

Well, they both play both sides of the ball, not sure why anyone would say that either Melo or Noah is all offense or defense. I do think, for a C, Noah's offense is better than Melo's defense. But that's not the main point. I think Melo can be, and in fact is, the #1 guy on a good team. Noah could never be that (offensively). Thing is, I just don't think Melo has the mentality to effectively play second option, which he'd always be here IMO because the ball starts in Rose's hands so #1 option will always be for him to drive. Allen Iverson was similar to Melo in that regard - could be a good #1 but never a title #1. I'd rather have a title-quality defensive anchor who can do special things at C in terms of running the floor, handling and passing the ball, than have a guy like Melo.

And to me, a starting or closing lineup with Omer, Taj, and Butler is way too limited offensively. You definitely need more than 2.5 guys to be threats to score. I mean, look at Miami - they play with, at most, one guy who isn't a threat to score. We're OK with Asik or Taj in there - not both most of the time IMO.

The problem IMO is that Rose and Melo wouldn't really play off each other well, because, well, Melo doesn't play off of anyone well.

I think that team is definitely strong enough to win. Omer Taj and Butler are your lockdown defenders, and Omer and Butler would greatly benefit playing off of both Rose and Melo. Plus, you still have Mirotic coming on over as well.

[nitetrain8603]

It's getting to be ridiculous..

Melo's not good enough, Aldridge isn't either...

It's not about being good enough in a vacuum. It's all about the asking prices.

Is Anthony worth Deng/Noah/Picks?

Is Aldridge worth Butler/Noah/Picks?

Anthony is especially considering you probably would've kept Asik. As far as Aldridge, a hypothetical would be Aldridge and Asik vs Noah, Butler and picks. And to that, I would say Aldridge and Asik are worth that too.

[nitetrain8603]

I'd take Rose/Deng/Noah any day. Melo isnt a winner, he doesnt defend well enough. He would want to be the main man here, when its clearly Rose's team. Wouldnt have been a good fit. And obviously Noah over Asik. Asik got his time during that Philly series when Noah was hurt, and quite frankly he was awful. Especially when it counted. The thought of him instead of Jo makes me want to puke

I don't get this. Have Rose, Deng or Noah won an NBA championship? No one is a championship level player until they win. The best you can do is look at the parts, see how you can make them fit, trade in and out pieces and go for it.

Such and such is not a championship level player is such a terrible copout of an argument.

[Wingy]

This thread reeks of

'I just don't like Melo' and 'My heart is attached to Jo'

There's some fair criticism in style of play, but there's a lot of points here that are very shaky.

- Doesn't make teammates better. - sure, but if you're looking at the actual question, he's being compared to Deng and Noah...not Lebron, not Rose...nor Duncan, or Nowitzki. How are Jo and Deng making teammates better? Surely people will point to Jo's passing here. It's great for a C, but doesn't make up for the gigantic gaping hole in crunch time offense
- Only made it as far as us in the playoffs. C'mon, that's just pure hate. In what series were the Knicks actually a better team than their opponent? None of them. I don't care if NY had a higher seed, Indy to me was clearly the better team.
- Cant cut or play off ball like Wade...pretty unfair...it's taken the Heat 3 years to get the three stars operating like they are now. Derrick Rose is the point guard. IMO, if we got a scorer like Melo, the onus is on Rose to get the new star and everyone else involved...pick and choose his spots...cause that's his job as a PG

I do believe our culture, Thibs and GarPax would have a positive influence over Melo. You've got to be a complete, petulant ass (ie Tyrus) to not have it change you for the better.

Forget Noah and Deng. Look at our best player by miles in Rose. How many times has he gone mano a mano with Lebron down the stretch and won? I think never. Melo has done that, and come out on top.

You can't touchy feel and intangible your way past sheer talent.

[nitetrain8603]

This thread reeks of

'I just don't like Melo' and 'My heart is attached to Jo'

There's some fair criticism in style of play, but there's a lot of points here that are very shaky.

- Doesn't make teammates better. - sure, but if you're looking at the actual question, he's being compared to Deng and Noah...not Lebron, not Rose...nor Duncan, or Nowitzki. How are Jo and Deng making teammates better? Surely people will point to Jo's passing here. It's great for a C, but doesn't make up for the gigantic gaping hole in crunch time offense
- Only made it as far as us in the playoffs. C'mon, that's just pure hate. In what series were the Knicks actually a better team than their opponent? None of them. I don't care if NY had a higher seed, Indy to me was clearly the better team.
- Cant cut or play off ball like Wade...pretty unfair...it's taken the Heat 3 years to get the three stars operating like they are now. Derrick Rose is the point guard. IMO, if we got a scorer like Melo, the onus is on Rose to get the new star and everyone else involved...pick and choose his spots...cause that's his job as a PG

I do believe our culture, Thibs and GarPax would have a positive influence over Melo. You've got to be a complete, petulant ass (ie Tyrus) to not have it change you for the better.

Forget Noah and Deng. Look at our best player by miles in Rose. How many times has he gone mano a mano with Lebron down the stretch and won? I think never. Melo has done that, and come out on top.

You can't touchy feel and intangible your way past sheer talent.

QUOTED FOR THE MF TRUTH!

[chadrucf]

It's getting to be ridiculous..

Melo's not good enough, Aldridge isn't either...

It's not about being good enough in a vacuum. It's all about the asking prices.

Is Anthony worth Deng/Noah/Picks?

Is Aldridge worth Butler/Noah/Picks?

Anthony is especially considering you probably would've kept Asik. As far as Aldridge, a hypothetical would be Aldridge and Asik vs Noah, Butler and picks. And to that, I would say Aldridge and Asik are worth that too.

1. Asik was a 2.8/3.7 player in 12.1 minutes per game when the trade was being discussed. At the time of the trade, it left us with no legitimate center to fall back on.

2. Asik isn't free. Noah/Butler/Picks only gets you Aldridge. What are you giving up in addition for Asik?

[G I N T]

I'd take Rose/Deng/Noah any day. Melo isnt a winner, he doesnt defend well enough. He would want to be the main man here, when its clearly Rose's team. Wouldnt have been a good fit. And obviously Noah over Asik. Asik got his time during that Philly series when Noah was hurt, and quite frankly he was awful. Especially when it counted. The thought of him instead of Jo makes me want to puke

I don't get this. Have Rose, Deng or Noah won an NBA championship? No one is a championship level player until they win. The best you can do is look at the parts, see how you can make them fit, trade in and out pieces and go for it.

Such and such is not a championship level player is such a terrible copout of an argument.

This. What makes Deng a winner and Melo not? Melo just averaged 29/7/3 with a .560 TS and 24.8 PER. And he led his team to 54 wins and a 2 seed. He's much better than Deng. It's no knock on Deng at all, but Melo is a supreme talent in this league. If you can get a top 8 player in the league to pair with another superstar, you do it and figure out the rest. The Rockets didn't worry about these supposed "character" issues in trading for a superstar C right after an off year he had. They could have held onto Asik but they clearly made the right move and it will pay off for them. The main issue here is no one on this team besides Rose is capable of filling the role of a legitimate isolation creator against the Heat. Until we have that player, this team won't be very potent offensively in the playoffs against the Heat.

[nitetrain8603]

It's not about being good enough in a vacuum. It's all about the asking prices.

Is Anthony worth Deng/Noah/Picks?

Is Aldridge worth Butler/Noah/Picks?

Anthony is especially considering you probably would've kept Asik. As far as Aldridge, a hypothetical would be Aldridge and Asik vs Noah, Butler and picks. And to that, I would say Aldridge and Asik are worth that too.

1. Asik was a 2.8/3.7 player in 12.1 minutes per game when the trade was being discussed. At the time of the trade, it left us with no legitimate center to fall back on.

2. Asik isn't free. Noah/Butler/Picks only gets you Aldridge. What are you giving up in addition for Asik?

What were Asik's PER 36 numbers? I even posted them in here. They are the same as they were now. And they were good enough for Houston to give him a PP contract and start him at C. And he delivered those numbers.

And yes, Asik isn't free. But you still have other picks as well as Taj and Deng and Boozer. Be like Houston, be proactive and creative. That's not in our FO's DNA though.

[JordansBulls]

Rose, Melo and Asik handily.

Imagine
Rose
Butler
Melo
Boozer
Asik