NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

[TheSuzerain]

7, 22, Portis, and Dunn for Luka Doncic is such an easy yes.

That sounds alot like Kevin Kostner trading 3rd 1st round picks for Bo Callahan

More like when Kevin Costner traded 3 acres of fertile farmland for something magical.

[fleet]

Its maddening to even consider trading up. If we would've just tanked properly we wouldn't even have to consider this. Complete failure of a season if we have to give up players/picks to move up in the draft order. We were trying to f'n tank!

But it is spilled milk at this time. There is a bill to pay, sure. Yet if they dont get one of their guys, that's what is unacceptable if a deal is there. The blown tank can still be mitigated.

It's impossible to say that showcasing Mirotic definitely helped or hurt. It probably came back neutral given he netted the #22 overall pick, which some are now suggesting be used to move up.

Yeah in a funny way, the loss can almost he recouped for low interest ding.

[tedwilliams1999]

Wait, a Gordon Hayward shooting ability, plus the passing and play-making ability of someone like Ginobili doesn't appeal to you?

Hell, I'm not even the biggest Doncic fan but his skill set is beyond any prospect at his age and it's not even close. The only glaring negatives is his lack of elite athletic ability and not supreme shooting. Put it this way, Ayton, and Bagley who are likely to get drafted in the top 3, are both HORRENDOUS defenders (right now). Their defense is much worse than Doncic weakest part of his game.

Sub-par athleticism + sub par shooting doesn't make for a good wing regardless of the rest of the skillset. You'd be taking a huge gamble that he eventually becomes a good 3 point shooter. That might be a fair bet of course, but if he doesn't, then who is he?

Also, I don't think his passing/play making is so amazing. As a comparison, Ricky Rubio struck me as a much better passer/play maker than Doncic (and that's not even close). That said, Rubio is also a great playmaker in the NBA.

I think your second sentence is where the disconnect is between us Doncic fans and everyone else. I don't pretend to be an amazing scout or a basketball savant, but in my opinion Doncic will be one of the best passers and playmakers in the league starting from day 1. He's obviously no where near the same athlete as Lebron or Ben Simmons, but he comes from the same mold of tall point-forwards.

The most valuable skill in the NBA is the ability to be a primary playmaker. This is also the one skill that's most conductive to creating a winning culture, followed closely by strong defensive talent. I think Doncic has that 'it' factor when it comes to running an NBA offense. Lonzo may have some of this as well - even in spite of the terrible shooting percentages he put up, his IQ was apparent on both sides of the ball.

Doncic's low shooting percentages also are not an indicator of his shooting capabilities; they're a sign of his lack of athleticism and lack of wiggle with his handle. He takes a ton of contested shots, full court heaves, and step back jumpers. This is definitely a valid concern, but IMO the increased spacing in the NBA will benefit Doncic a ton, as will improving his body. What he lacks in vertical and lateral explosion, I think he'll make up for by becoming strong as heck.

Like I said earlier though, if we go through the league leaders of RPM, we can see that the skill-sets that play the largest role in creating wins are primary play-making on offense and efficient scoring combined with strong defense. For this reason, if we want to start shifting our culture, we need to be looking into drafting guys like Doncic, Trae Young, JJJ, Bamba, and WCJ. Porter Jr may fit in this mold, but he also could just be a taller LaVine - impossible for me to tell at this point. Ayton and Bagley are also a crapshoot for me, even though it's clear that they'll get buckets.

[The Box Office]

Elfrid was a straight up better player than Dunn last year.

No. How come Elfrid was traded last year during the season to the Suns then? Orlando would have kept him if he was better than Dunn.

Orlando isn't in denial.

Yes, because Elfrid does not have a jump shot. Elfrid has 300 games under him and didn't show improvements. I think he's out of the league in 3 years. Dunn is the better player right now and defensively he's better. However, Dunn has to be careful if reports about him being lazy in his workouts are true.

[Proven_Winner]

Don’t overthink it just use both picks. People spent the better part of this year jock riding Jordan bell and how we traded our pick for money. Now everyone wants to trade it again just to move up a few spots when we’ve done that before too.

This team needs more talent we need to be using these picks it’s what we’re good at.

[madvillian]

If the Bulls trade up to #2 (giving up #7, #22, Dunn AND Portis) to get Luka and Luka wasn't going until 5 otherwise that's the sort of crippling overpay that sets things back - a lot.

So much so that I'd consider firing Garpax and reconsidering the entire point of a "long term teardown".

Luka is not some transcendental talent you give that much up for when you're supposed to be taking the long view. If it takes that much, you wait and utilize those assets later.

[BigUps]

Its maddening to even consider trading up. If we would've just tanked properly we wouldn't even have to consider this. Complete failure of a season if we have to give up players/picks to move up in the draft order. We were trying to f'n tank!

But it is spilled milk at this time. There is a bill to pay, sure. Yet if they dont get one of their guys, that's what is unacceptable if a deal is there. The blown tank can still be mitigated.

Who is your guy?

You can make an argument that anyone other than Ayton or Bagley could be there at 7.

[thewraith]

Why does it say trade now in the title??? Is there a trade I'm missing?

[madvillian]

Its maddening to even consider trading up. If we would've just tanked properly we wouldn't even have to consider this. Complete failure of a season if we have to give up players/picks to move up in the draft order. We were trying to f'n tank!

But it is spilled milk at this time. There is a bill to pay, sure. Yet if they dont get one of their guys, that's what is unacceptable if a deal is there. The blown tank can still be mitigated.

Who is your guy?

You can make an argument that anyone other than Ayton or Bagley could be there at 7.

Exactly, which is why it would behoove Chicago to be patient. Someone good will fall.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

Why does it say trade now in the title??? Is there a trade I'm missing?

Yeah what is up w that?

[The Box Office]

If the Bulls trade up to #2 (giving up #7, #22, Dunn AND Portis) to get Luka and Luka wasn't going until 5 otherwise that's the sort of crippling overpay that sets things back - a lot.

So much so that I'd consider firing Garpax and reconsidering the entire point of a "long term teardown".

Luka is not some transcendental talent you give that much up for when you're supposed to be taking the long view. If it takes that much, you wait and utilize those assets later.

Yep. I agree. However, Luka is better than Michael Porter. With that said, I still wouldn't trade for Luka. I would probably trade for the draft rights to Mo Bamba, but I'll only give up the 7th and 22nd pick.

I do a trade next year for Nassir Little/RJ Barrett. Those 2 look generational to me.

[nomorezorro]

i love doncic but the bulls are not really in a position to be cashing in assets to go all-in on one dude if he's not a sure-thing transcendent talent

[wonderboy2]

If that Sacto/Dallas rumor is true, and there is any way to move up to get Doncic without trading Lauri, do it. Obviously I wouldn't go crazy with a bunch of unprotected future firsts or anything. But I'd offer #7, #22 any players on the roster and possibly a future first (with protections) to get him. Establish a core of Lauri and Doncic and build from there.

Not really a fan of Doncic. I think he might be 5th or 6th on my board. I think he has huge bust potential and really only place him that high due to how good others seem to think he is. There's a part of me that would still be wary of taking him at 10.

He's a wing player that lacks athleticism and shooting touch. It's really hard for me to see how that plays out positively in the NBA.

Is he any less athletic than someone like Gordon Hayward?

Yes.. Hayward is definately more athletic than Doncic, espeacially Butlers Hayward.I watched a ton of Doncic and I like him. But people on here overrate him so much. He’s was a easy cover/switch for ATHLETIC bigs. He tends to pound the air out of the ball when he can’t beat his man and turn the corner, which a lot of times lead to heavily contested stepbacks. Has the size and weight to be a good post post player. But at times got bullied in the post by below average wings by NBA standards due to technique (plays post defense like he’s on a cross, both hands out to the sides laterally in the air while trying to body his man, which allows spinoffs). Has a tendacy to get blown by by quick guards. Who does he guard in the NBA?

[wonderboy2]

Marvin Bagley is going to be better than KAT

KAT is nothing but a taller, three point shooting Carlos Boozer.

marvin bagley, the man who forced duke to abandon man-to-man defense, will be...a same-sized, not three-point shooting carlos boozer?

Duke was not forced to play Zone because of Bagley. Bagley actualy had some impressive moments guarding the perimeter. His defensive awareness definately has to improve. But he has the tools to be a good defender. At this time he’s a better perimeter defender than rim protector/shot blocker. Most 19-20 year olds are not good defenders. Only players that project to be good defenders right away in the top 10 are JJ, Bamba, and Bridges.

[kulaz3000]

Marvin Bagley is going to be better than KAT

KAT is nothing but a taller, three point shooting Carlos Boozer.

marvin bagley, the man who forced duke to abandon man-to-man defense, will be...a same-sized, not three-point shooting carlos boozer?

Duke was not forced to play Zone because of Bagley. Bagley actualy had some impressive moments guarding the perimeter. His defensive awareness definately has to improve. But he has the tools to be a good defender. At this time he’s a better perimeter defender than rim protector/shot blocker. Most 19-20 year olds are not good defenders. Only players that project to be good defenders right away in the top 10 are JJ, Bamba, and Bridges.

If we're going to be critical of Bagley's defense, while warranted, can't be worse than KAT's defensive IQ and effort, which is REALLY BAD. KAT's defense is atrocious and that's being kind.

[PhilBlackson]

If the Bulls trade up to #2 (giving up #7, #22, Dunn AND Portis) to get Luka and Luka wasn't going until 5 otherwise that's the sort of crippling overpay that sets things back - a lot.

So much so that I'd consider firing Garpax and reconsidering the entire point of a "long term teardown".

Luka is not some transcendental talent you give that much up for when you're supposed to be taking the long view. If it takes that much, you wait and utilize those assets later.

Yep. I agree. However, Luka is better than Michael Porter. With that said, I still wouldn't trade for Luka. I would probably trade for the draft rights to Mo Bamba, but I'll only give up the 7th and 22nd pick.

I do a trade next year for Nassir Little/RJ Barrett. Those 2 look generational to me.

Personally I'd trade #7 and #22 for Luka quite easily.

Not sure what it is that you see that makes you think either of those 2 look "generational" but especially not Little. I know his hype train built up some steam because he was able to be a bit competitive with Barrett but a lot of that was just assertiveness. I don't see one elite thing about either his skillset or physical attributes that would even remotely put him in the conversation of generational, seems to be a lot of hyperbole there imo.

As for Barrett, I think again for some weird reason the media is overselling another top Canadian prospect. It doesn't mean I don't think he will be great because I do...but generational?! Absolutely not. Perhaps that term is thrown around very loosely for you but there are very few "generational" players to have ever played the game. MJ, LeBron are the most obvious, then probably Kareem mayeb even guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Bird and Magic they probably make the cut but they're truly historic greats. Guys like KG, Dirk, Malone, Robinson aren't even considered generational so I have no idea what you're seeing that makes Barrett above them.

Personally I see a guy who will probably end up at the level of say Harden or Westbrook (without the selfish label). They're great talents but certainly not generational. Usually players that are considered that have an elite skill or elite physical attribute or ability. Barrett has neither. He's just much more skilled than his less developed contemporaries and perhaps that will give him the head start to keep him a bit ahead but nonetheless their needs to be something truly elite to set a player apart to make them generational, I don't see it.

[wonderboy2]

7, 22, Portis, and Dunn for Luka Doncic is such an easy yes.

I couldn't disagree more. I really couldn't. To me, thats us getting absolutely fleeced and I don't think that highly of Dunn or Portis. Doncic just ins't worth it IMO.

Yea that would be a disaster of a trade. Quite possibly the worst trade I’ve seen on this board in a while.

[madvillian]

I think Bagley is being slept on. If some team wants #22 and #7 for Bagley at #4,5, sign me the hell up. Bagley is not some plodder. I actually think he's being knocked because he played on a really talented Duke team and didn't dominate as much as was expected.

Bagley is a premium talent in a way MPJ or imo, Bamba and Young, are not. Doesn't mean he will be a great pick, but he's a better prospect right now.

[Leslie Forman]

If we're going to be critical of Bagley's defense, while warranted, can't be worse than KAT's defensive IQ and effort, which is REALLY BAD. KAT's defense is atrocious and that's being kind.

It can absolutely be worse. Towns will make some big plays here and there when he's locked in and isn't getting turned around. Bagley seems to not really even do that regularly.

I do kinda wonder though if Bagley gets more stick than he deserves and if Carter is a lot worse defensively than people think. Perhaps those two are better than we think and were just making each other worse. Perhaps they're both even worse than we think and the zone was hiding it. We'll see.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

One guy I can see why the Bulls brought him in for a workout was Robert Williams. I think he fits perfectly at center next to Lauri. He'd be the high intensity, rebounding, rim rocking, and defense machine.

It would take a mid round pick to get him, which is why I hope the Bulls are looking at that Denver deal for 14 and Faried, maybe for Portis?

Bulls draft MPJ at 7, Williams at 14, and Huerter at 22.

Dunn
Lavine, Denzel
MPJ, Huerter
Lauri
Williams

That's a young core to be excited about.