The Marko Simonovic season thread

[GoBlue72391]

And I'm not saying that Simonovic is a bum, but he's much closer to the dozens of foreign players who fill out the end of an NBA bench for a year or two before going back to their home country than he is to Jokic. Or Lauri for that matter. At least at this point in his development.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

[CobyWhite0]

There are plenty of reasons why Marko almost certainly won't be the next Jokic, but the fact that he played in the Adriatic League at age 20 isn't one of them.

Cool. Let's pretend like Jokic isn't an extreme exception to the rule and other prospects should certainly be compared to him. Let's pretend like he's not a unique one of a kind player. Let's also ignore the fact that the Adriatic League has gotten worse as a whole since Jokic was in it. Yes, let's definitely do that.

For an equally apt comparison;

Player A: 8, 3, and 1 on 41/21/77 as a rookie and 18, 7, and 3 on 46/38/83 as a second year player

Player B: 15, 8, and 1 on 43/36/83 as a rookie and 19, 9, and 1 on 43/36/87 as a second year player

Player A is Dirk. Player B is Lauri. Yes, it's a stupid comparison, but not as stupid as the Jokic/Simonovic comparison.

Lauri put up much better pre-NBA stats against much better competition than Simonovic did. Pac-12 + FIBA > Adriatic League. The current Adriatic League looks noticeably worse than G League competition.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app[/quote]

It's amazing that someone can put so many words into a response without responding to the original post AT. ALL.

Maybe sad.

Definitely funny.

[kulaz3000]

He may never amount to much in the NBA, but if he comes cheaply, is there any harm in seeing how he plays out? There are rarely ever firm assurances on how a player developers, sometimes they do develop how people expect, some don't or ever do, or some develop much later in their careers after bouncing around - point being, you just never know.

[GoBlue72391]

There are plenty of reasons why Marko almost certainly won't be the next Jokic, but the fact that he played in the Adriatic League at age 20 isn't one of them.

Cool. Let's pretend like Jokic isn't an extreme exception to the rule and other prospects should certainly be compared to him. Let's pretend like he's not a unique one of a kind player. Let's also ignore the fact that the Adriatic League has gotten worse as a whole since Jokic was in it. Yes, let's definitely do that.

For an equally apt comparison;

Player A: 8, 3, and 1 on 41/21/77 as a rookie and 18, 7, and 3 on 46/38/83 as a second year player

Player B: 15, 8, and 1 on 43/36/83 as a rookie and 19, 9, and 1 on 43/36/87 as a second year player

Player A is Dirk. Player B is Lauri. Yes, it's a stupid comparison, but not as stupid as the Jokic/Simonovic comparison.

Lauri put up much better pre-NBA stats against much better competition than Simonovic did. Pac-12 + FIBA > Adriatic League. The current Adriatic League looks noticeably worse than G League competition.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

It's amazing that someone can put so many words into a response without responding to the original post AT. ALL.

Maybe sad.

Definitely funny.

So why even make that comparison to begin with? The Adriatic League of 2013 to 2015 is not the same as it is today. Reading your posts, it's pretty clear that you don't think much of Lauri as a player. Which is fine. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but what doesn't make sense is that you apparently think very highly of Simonovic. He's a very similar player to Lauri in terms of play style. Do you disagree with that?

They're both primarily stretch/pick and pop bigs. The difference between the two, despite having similar play styles, is that Simonovic is worse than Lauri in pretty much every aspect. He's a worse shooter with a slower release, he's slower, he's less athletic, he's a worse rebounder, likely a worse defender, etc. Look at his recent highlights and tell me with a straight face that you think he can be successful against NBA competition next season. His release is so slow and begins so low that I have a hard time believing he would be able to get shots off against NBA competition unless wide open.

Lauri was ranked a 5-star recruit by ESPN and 247 and a 4-star recruit by Rivals. He played at Arizona, a premier basketball school in a premier basketball conference, and had offers from other powerhouse schools. He dominated FIBA competition with varying levels of NBA players. He was the 7th pick in a strong draft and had immediate success as a rookie and second year player. He was a blue chip prospect for a reason. In comparison, Simonovic is older than Lauri was as a prospect, played against lesser competition, was ranked in the 80s by most outlets during his draft year, and was selected 44th in a weak draft.

So it doesn't make sense to me how someone could dislike Lauri's game while simultaneously being high on Simonovic.

[GoBlue72391]

He may never amount to much in the NBA, but if he comes cheaply, is there any harm in seeing how he plays out? There are rarely ever firm assurances on how a player developers, sometimes they do develop how people expect, some don't or ever do, or some develop much later in their careers after bouncing around - point being, you just never know.

I'd rather wait to bring him over until he proves he's likely ready to contribute in the NBA, ideally by playing in a higher tier European league first. Bringing foreign players over to the NBA before they're ready rarely works out. He could be NBA ready right now, but if he's not then his development will pretty much be screwed.

If it turns out he's not quite NBA ready, then he'd be much better off staying overseas another year or two and starting/playing big minutes than he would be collecting DNP-CDs and shuffling between the back end of our roster and the G League. That's an awful situation for a player from a development standpoint. We probably won't even need him next season anyway. If we lose at least 2 of Lauri, Thad, Theis then I could see him coming over, but I doubt we'll lose more than 1 of them.

[kulaz3000]

He may never amount to much in the NBA, but if he comes cheaply, is there any harm in seeing how he plays out? There are rarely ever firm assurances on how a player developers, sometimes they do develop how people expect, some don't or ever do, or some develop much later in their careers after bouncing around - point being, you just never know.

I'd rather wait to bring him over until he proves he's likely ready to contribute in the NBA, ideally by playing in a higher tier European league first. Bringing foreign players over to the NBA before they're ready rarely works out. He could be NBA ready right now, but if he's not then his development will pretty much be screwed.

If it turns out he's not quite NBA ready, then he'd be much better off staying overseas another year or two and starting/playing big minutes than he would be collecting DNP-CDs and shuffling between the back end of our roster and the G League. That's an awful situation for a player from a development standpoint. We probably won't even need him next season anyway. If we lose at least 2 of Lauri, Thad, Theis then I could see him coming over, but I doubt we'll lose more than 1 of them.

I'm not sure I agree with that. It's a different league, and if he signs one of those massive deals overseas, and DOES become a really good player, it becomes more problematic to bring them over.

I'd prefer to bring him now, use the G-league if need be, and see in person whether he has the potential to invest in. Bringing him along now won't cost all that much, and then cutting him early wouldn't be a massive loss either.

[WindyCityBorn]

The next Dragan Tarlac. I have zero expectations for this guy. He definitely will not be a good replacement for Markkanen.

[petebraun0]

Is anyone a tad upset that we did not use the Marco pick on Jordan Nwora or Paul Reed? Both seemed to have NBA potential.
I think Nico Mannion was still on the board as well. Why did we have to go with a less developed player?

[sco]

Is anyone a tad upset that we did not use the Marco pick on Jordan Nwora or Paul Reed? Both seemed to have NBA potential.
I think Nico Mannion was still on the board as well. Why did we have to go with a less developed player?

2nd round pick remorse is a sign of early insanity - be careful.

[petebraun0]

Is anyone a tad upset that we did not use the Marco pick on Jordan Nwora or Paul Reed? Both seemed to have NBA potential.
I think Nico Mannion was still on the board as well. Why did we have to go with a less developed player?

2nd round pick remorse is a sign of early insanity - be careful.

You are 100 percent right. I am going insane. What if scenarios haunt me daily. If only we had done this. Hindsight is so 20 20.
We need more crystal balls.

It is nice when you can get a quality player in the 2nd round, like Jokic, or Graham, or Brogdon. Seems like seniors always tend to fall, and can be wise pickups. Immediate production, and you know what they bring to the table.

[GoBlue72391]

The next Dragan Tarlac. I have zero expectations for this guy. He definitely will not be a good replacement for Markkanen.

This is probably the right mindset to have for the majority of these draft and stash guys. If they contribute anything at all at the NBA level then it's a win.

[GoBlue72391]

Is anyone a tad upset that we did not use the Marco pick on Jordan Nwora or Paul Reed? Both seemed to have NBA potential.
I think Nico Mannion was still on the board as well. Why did we have to go with a less developed player?

Not really. We would have had to free up a roster spot for one of those guys. Nwora seems to have some potential, but Reed looks like a dime a dozen old school big like Jordan Bell. Nwora you could make an argument for, but I'd definitely rather take a chance on a stretch big like Simonovic than someone like Reed. As for Mannion, he couldn't even get playing time on that desolated Warriors team and when he did play he sucked.

Odds are none of them are ever any better than like 10th men at best, so we're splitting hairs on end of the roster guys.

[GoBlue72391]

Is anyone a tad upset that we did not use the Marco pick on Jordan Nwora or Paul Reed? Both seemed to have NBA potential.
I think Nico Mannion was still on the board as well. Why did we have to go with a less developed player?

2nd round pick remorse is a sign of early insanity - be careful.

You are 100 percent right. I am going insane. What if scenarios haunt me daily. If only we had done this. Hindsight is so 20 20.
We need more crystal balls.

It is nice when you can get a quality player in the 2nd round, like Jokic, or Graham, or Brogdon. Seems like seniors always tend to fall, and can be wise pickups. Immediate production, and you know what they bring to the table.

Guys like Jokic, Graham, and Brogdon are outliers. Most of the time you'll get a non-NBA talent in the 2nd round. Occasionally you'll score a nice depth player like Gafford. You can't blame the team for missing out on a guy that every other team in the league passed over twice as well. Getting a Jokic in the 2nd round is like a once in a decade steal. Marc Gasol was another 2nd round Euro big who became a superstar. He was drafted in 2007 I believe. If your 2nd rounder contributes anything at all in the NBA then that's a win.

[GoBlue72391]

He may never amount to much in the NBA, but if he comes cheaply, is there any harm in seeing how he plays out? There are rarely ever firm assurances on how a player developers, sometimes they do develop how people expect, some don't or ever do, or some develop much later in their careers after bouncing around - point being, you just never know.

I'd rather wait to bring him over until he proves he's likely ready to contribute in the NBA, ideally by playing in a higher tier European league first. Bringing foreign players over to the NBA before they're ready rarely works out. He could be NBA ready right now, but if he's not then his development will pretty much be screwed.

If it turns out he's not quite NBA ready, then he'd be much better off staying overseas another year or two and starting/playing big minutes than he would be collecting DNP-CDs and shuffling between the back end of our roster and the G League. That's an awful situation for a player from a development standpoint. We probably won't even need him next season anyway. If we lose at least 2 of Lauri, Thad, Theis then I could see him coming over, but I doubt we'll lose more than 1 of them.

I'm not sure I agree with that. It's a different league, and if he signs one of those massive deals overseas, and DOES become a really good player, it becomes more problematic to bring them over.

I'd prefer to bring him now, use the G-league if need be, and see in person whether he has the potential to invest in. Bringing him along now won't cost all that much, and then cutting him early wouldn't be a massive loss either.

It all depends on the player. If his goal is to eventually play in the NBA then he'll make sure any foreign contract he signs has an NBA opt out. If it's someone like Fran Vasquez, who clearly preferred to play overseas rather than in the NBA, then there's nothing you can do regardless.

If you look at it historically, the draft and stash guys who get brought over and spend their first season in the NBA shuffling between the G League and the back end of their NBA team's roster have a way lower success rate than those who came over and were immediately able to step into an NBA rotation, no matter how small their role might be.

You're right that he wouldn't cost much, but the risk is bringing him over too early. He might not be a good NBA player in his early 20s, but he might be by the time he's in his mid or late 20s, but it's too late for that because you've already squandered his development and have moved on from him and now he's back in his home country. Ersan Ilyasova is a very rare example of a player who came over too early, wasn't ready for the NBA, went back overseas, then eventually returned to the NBA later with his original team and became a long term contributor in the NBA.

If our FO thinks he's NBA ready right now then I'm sure they'll try to bring him over. If they don't, I bet they would prefer he stay overseas to continue to develop rather than trying to develop him in the NBA with little to no NBA playing time. Getting DNP-CDs in the NBA and playing 15 or so G League games is not as good of a developmental environment as staying in their home country and starting/playing big minutes against competition that is usually better than G League talent (though in Simonovic's case I think that's debatable).

[dougthonus]

So it doesn't make sense to me how someone could dislike Lauri's game while simultaneously being high on Simonovic.

I agree with this completely if you are comparing them directly.

That said, if instead you look at Simonovic as a guy that might give you something at a couple million for a few years as a guy who is a role player in the 10-15 deep section of your roster then fundamentally, Lauri, likely making 15m+ as a prospect in your top 1-5 spot in your roster is a very different scenario, and one might be high on Simonovic in his expected role vs Lauri in his.

That said, I'm not high on Simonovic in that role either. I would guess it is no better than 50/50 that he ever plays a minute in the NBA. That's fine with me, we were short on roster spots last year and so just taking the best available draft and stash player made sense even if the odds were long. I doubt Simonovic ever does anything meaningful for us, but I'm open to be proven wrong and taking a look at him in camp or something.

[HomoSapien]

So it doesn't make sense to me how someone could dislike Lauri's game while simultaneously being high on Simonovic.

For what it's worth, I theoretically like Lauri's game I just don't like his approach to it. If he was consistently aggressive, that would completely change my opinion on how much he'd be worth and if I thought he was a building block.

[GoBlue72391]

So it doesn't make sense to me how someone could dislike Lauri's game while simultaneously being high on Simonovic.

For what it's worth, I theoretically like Lauri's game I just don't like his approach to it. If he was consistently aggressive, that would completely change my opinion on how much he'd be worth and if I thought he was a building block.

You're preaching to the choir.

[CobyWhite0]

So it doesn't make sense to me how someone could dislike Lauri's game while simultaneously being high on Simonovic.

I agree with this completely if you are comparing them directly.

That said, if instead you look at Simonovic as a guy that might give you something at a couple million for a few years as a guy who is a role player in the 10-15 deep section of your roster then fundamentally, Lauri, likely making 15m+ as a prospect in your top 1-5 spot in your roster is a very different scenario, and one might be high on Simonovic in his expected role vs Lauri in his.

That said, I'm not high on Simonovic in that role either. I would guess it is no better than 50/50 that he ever plays a minute in the NBA. That's fine with me, we were short on roster spots last year and so just taking the best available draft and stash player made sense even if the odds were long. I doubt Simonovic ever does anything meaningful for us, but I'm open to be proven wrong and taking a look at him in camp or something.

Yeah it's not even comparing apples and oranges, it's comparting apples and an Italian beef sandwich. So we can have another thread talking about Lauri?

Simonovic was the 44th pick, we can sign him to a 4-year deal at the Minimum and the final two years don't even have to be guaranteed. If he can even give us the 22 min Lauri gave us post-trade by his 3rd season, it will be victory for having been a 2nd round pick.

And just to follow up on what you said about Lauri's price tag, I think there's very few here who don't like Lauri's game. They just don't like his price tag.

And while Lauri was effective in his 20-24 minute role against mostly bench players, I think AKME would rather have a guy who defends and creates off the dribble at a higher level than to pay Lauri's price tag. If not, I probably need to lower my opinion of AK quite a bit.

[dougthonus]

Simonovic was the 44th pick, we can sign him to a 4-year deal at the Minimum and the final two years don't even have to be guaranteed. If he can even give us the 22 min Lauri gave us post-trade by his 3rd season, it will be victory for having been a 2nd round pick.

Good chance he may not come over on a four year minimum deal. His European money might be better or similar. Also, it's pretty unlikely he'll ever develop into a 20+ minute player. I agree this scenario would be great if it happened, but both ends of that scenario (price and talent) seem unlikely to me.

[CobyWhite0]

Simonovic was the 44th pick, we can sign him to a 4-year deal at the Minimum and the final two years don't even have to be guaranteed. If he can even give us the 22 min Lauri gave us post-trade by his 3rd season, it will be victory for having been a 2nd round pick.

Good chance he may not come over on a four year minimum deal. His European money might be better or similar. Also, it's pretty unlikely he'll ever develop into a 20+ minute player. I agree this scenario would be great if it happened, but both ends of that scenario (price and talent) seem unlikely to me.

I don't think he makes more than the NBA minimum next season - even in the Euroleague, the average salary is $500-800k USD. Of course the $800,000 is close to equal to the NBA minimum once you figure that Euro teams pay your taxes and for housing and cars.

https://europrobasket.com/overseas-basketball-salaries/

EDIT: I forgot a minimum deal can only be for 2 years, so the most we could give Simonovic using the Min Salary Exception is 2 years, $2.5 million. We would have to use cap space or part of the MLE to give him more than 2 years.

But Marko isn't even on a Euroleague team yet, and his Serbian team won't be in the Euroleague next season either. But even if you're right and he can get more to stay in Europe than the NBA min, it would still cost us 1/5th of what Lauri will get.

And I agree that nobody currently expects him to be a 20 min NBA player, which was my point - comparing Marko to Lauri is stupid. Apples to Lou Malnati's. Mid-lottery pick to mid-2nd round pick.