The Bulls should rebuild now.

[DroseReturnChi]

I've let this simmer a bit and I still see no value in holding on to most of these guys. Heck, I think we lost a ton of value with Carter injured AGAIN and Lauri injured AGAIN.

Move Lavine before it's too late. I would love to keep Lavine and build around him, but we are so far away from surrounding him with title contending talent, that I just don't think there is point in keeping him anymore.

And 4 years ago, it was "Move Jimmy before it's too late. I would love to keep Jimmy and build around him, but we are so far away from surrounding him with title contending talent, that I just don't think there is point in keeping him anymore."

How about acquiring talent to surround Zach with instead of trading him away and don't get fair value in return?

Jimmy was 30 yrs old. Nobody builds around a veteran injury prone.
Lavine simply not the same talent and yet command more money. The roster is even worse I just done see a playoff run.
You need to trade good talent to get good in return. Lavine would have not been here without trading Butler.

[gobullschi]

I never really understood what constitutes as a #1, #2, or #3. I’ve always viewed LaVine as a #1 scoring option because he can score from all three levels and create his own shot at will.

When people say he can’t be a #1, what specifically is holding him back? How many #1s are in the league and who are they? If Zach LaVine is a #2, name 3 #1’s and 3 #2’s that would mesh well with him. I think that would help clarify.

#1 simply means you are the best player on your team which Zach is for the Bulls. That is very different than being a #1 on a title contender. That guy is probably a top 10 player in the league.

The below article lists the top 10 players in the League according to ESPN. I don’t think LaVine will ever be a top 10 player in the league. To be that player you have to be able to take over a game, put your team on your back, be able to consistently hit game winning shots, etc. While Zach is a great talent and All Star type player he is not a generational player. Do people see him as being a Future Hall of Famer?

https://tv5.espn.com/basketball/story/_/id/30489070/ranking-top-10-nba-players-2020-21

He’s arguably the best athlete in the NBA and he definitely has the ability to take over a game. He’s proven that with multiple 40+ games.

Still doesn’t make sense.

[thebizkit]

I'm not talking about trading him for the sake of trading him. You have to sell high, NEVER SELL LOW and you sure as hell don't hold on to an asset to a point where you may not even re-sign him.... *Cough Lauri.

I just don't see a realistic path for this team to compete in the next 5 years. For that to happen Colby would have develop into a Beal type of player, Lavine continue to perform at this level AND Lauri or Carter living up to their expectations (doubt Carter will ever be anything more that just a guy and doubt Lauri re-signs). If that doesn't happen then your only hope is if Williams develops into a superstar and that's not even a fair expectation to put on him.

All this with Lavines great contract ticking down and an incredibly watered down free agent class next year.

[d boy gentleman]

I've let this simmer a bit and I still see no value in holding on to most of these guys. Heck, I think we lost a ton of value with Carter injured AGAIN and Lauri injured AGAIN.

Move Lavine before it's too late. I would love to keep Lavine and build around him, but we are so far away from surrounding him with title contending talent, that I just don't think there is point in keeping him anymore.

And 4 years ago, it was "Move Jimmy before it's too late. I would love to keep Jimmy and build around him, but we are so far away from surrounding him with title contending talent, that I just don't think there is point in keeping him anymore."

How about acquiring talent to surround Zach with instead of trading him away and don't get fair value in return?

Jimmy was 30 yrs old. Nobody builds around a veteran injury prone.
Lavine simply not the same talent and yet command more money. The roster is even worse I just done see a playoff run.
You need to trade good talent to get good in return. Lavine would have not been here without trading Butler.

Jimmy was 27 at the time of the trade to Minnesota and it was viewed as "rebuilding" to the delight of many Bulls fans happy to be a cellar dweller because they all had dreams of the #1 pick dancing in their heads which turned into back to back 7th picks. Management also not thinking Jimmy wasn't a max player was the main reason. Bulls wanted Wiggins; Minny said no and they settled for LaVine

Not making a playoff run isn't much of a reason to trade a guy averaging 27 a game. You're not going to get a top 3 pick in return. You probably get a pick 6-10 and the tank brigade getting a woodie for a high schooler that "has franchise player written all over him" that the team won't have a chance to draft at 5...

[thebizkit]

Not making a playoff run isn't much of a reason to trade a guy averaging 27 a game.

You also don't pay someone 30+ million in a year or two when you don't make the playoffs either.

[Am2626]

I never really understood what constitutes as a #1, #2, or #3. I’ve always viewed LaVine as a #1 scoring option because he can score from all three levels and create his own shot at will.

When people say he can’t be a #1, what specifically is holding him back? How many #1s are in the league and who are they? If Zach LaVine is a #2, name 3 #1’s and 3 #2’s that would mesh well with him. I think that would help clarify.

#1 simply means you are the best player on your team which Zach is for the Bulls. That is very different than being a #1 on a title contender. That guy is probably a top 10 player in the league.

The below article lists the top 10 players in the League according to ESPN. I don’t think LaVine will ever be a top 10 player in the league. To be that player you have to be able to take over a game, put your team on your back, be able to consistently hit game winning shots, etc. While Zach is a great talent and All Star type player he is not a generational player. Do people see him as being a Future Hall of Famer?

https://tv5.espn.com/basketball/story/_/id/30489070/ranking-top-10-nba-players-2020-21

He’s arguably the best athlete in the NBA and he definitely has the ability to take over a game. He’s proven that with multiple 40+ games.

Still doesn’t make sense.

How many game winning shots has Zach made in his career? We can even look at this last game. He had the ball in his hand at the end of the game and he blew a layup. Look I’m not a Zach Hater. He’s a great player and the Bulls shouldn’t trade him. He just can’t be your best player if you want your team to be a championship contender.

[gobullschi]

#1 simply means you are the best player on your team which Zach is for the Bulls. That is very different than being a #1 on a title contender. That guy is probably a top 10 player in the league.

The below article lists the top 10 players in the League according to ESPN. I don’t think LaVine will ever be a top 10 player in the league. To be that player you have to be able to take over a game, put your team on your back, be able to consistently hit game winning shots, etc. While Zach is a great talent and All Star type player he is not a generational player. Do people see him as being a Future Hall of Famer?

https://tv5.espn.com/basketball/story/_/id/30489070/ranking-top-10-nba-players-2020-21

He’s arguably the best athlete in the NBA and he definitely has the ability to take over a game. He’s proven that with multiple 40+ games.

Still doesn’t make sense.

How many game winning shots has Zach made in his career? We can even look at this last game. He had the ball in his hand at the end of the game and he blew a layup. Look I’m not a Zach Hater. He’s a great player and the Bulls shouldn’t trade him. He just can’t be your best player if you want your team to be a championship contender.

He’s the 4th most clutch player in the NBA this season.

https://stats.inpredictable.com/nba/ssnPlayerSplit.php?season=2020&team=ALL&pos=ALL&po=0&frdt=2020-12-22&todt=2021-02-08&shot=both&grp=1&dst=plyr&sort=sfg3&order=DESC

[LateNight]

It's kind of bulls**t that people think Zach can't win games, even though he's never played with another NBA level starter.

-Lauri is starter quality 50% of the time when he's on the court, and misses about 30% of his games due to injury.
-Wendell Carter is basically neutralized in the paint against larger centers because he's 6'9
-Otto Porter Jr appears to have irreparably damaged something in his hip/back.

Who else have we let him play with? Justin Holiday? Jabari Parker? Nikola Mirotic? Robin Lopez? (No disrespect to them - I would gladly take Holiday or Mirotic with Billy as coach).

In the few games where anyone other than Zach has put up around 20 or more points, Zach looks great and we often win. But we have never - never - given him another scoring option.

Plus, he's been surrounded by negative defenders (if you include Zach - we end up with weak d at 3/5 positions).

You can't put a player in a no-win situation, stack the deck against him and then crap all over him when he can't overcome all of that.

Management need to go get Zach some other vets to play with.

[gobullschi]

Not making a playoff run isn't much of a reason to trade a guy averaging 27 a game.

You also don't pay someone 30+ million in a year or two when you don't make the playoffs either.

Why not? That’s a dumb rule.