Shams: Bulls extend Vuc (3/60)

[Wingy]

Correct. However the DPE has conditions... it cannot be split into two. And it's not $10M to get anyone you want, it's a player in the final season of a contract. That narrows down the list of people.

You just described Monte Morris. $9.8MM expiring deal. Supposedly one of AK’s successful picks in Denver.

[jnrjr79]

The Bulls should have enough money to get a shooting forward and a guard.

We don't have cap space...

They have the MLE and likely the DPE from lonzo.

They minimally have the MLE and BAE, and there is no reason they should be unable to apply for and receive the DPE. The question is just whether they'll actually spend into the tax to use all of it. Other than the luxury tax, there is no reason the Bulls can't add some relatively significant pieces.

I still want to trade one of DeMar or Zach for roster construction reasons, but aside from that find myself continually frustrated by all the posts talking about how much money the Bulls have left to spend, when what is really meant is left to spend below the tax.

[jnrjr79]

We don't have cap space...

They have the MLE and likely the DPE from lonzo.

Correct. However the DPE has conditions... it cannot be split into two. And it's not $10M to get anyone you want, it's a player in the final season of a contract. That narrows down the list of people.

It can be used to trade for a player in the final season of a contract, acquire a waived player, or sign a free agent. The trick is that in all instances, it has to be a one-year commitment, with the idea being that your disabled player may be ready to return in the next season and therefore you shouldn't get a multi-season benefit for him being out.

[SfBull]

I don't like it ,not for the pricing which I believe Vuc deserves.What I don't like is the fact we'll keep starting a center who is a weak inside defender and knowing that extending Vuc will likely mean we won't trade DeMar keeping the Big 3.It's another indicator that we'll run it back this season , something we should avoid at all costs.
Some free agency moves are essential now ,we need to sign a pg who can run the offense being a good 3 point shooter and a power forward or a younger and cheaper center who can improve our defense.
Not mad about extending Vuc ,I just wanted an alternative option for starting center.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

None of those. It would get you half of Rudy Gobert lol. It could have gotten Beal but we needed to add more expiring salary, in this case I guess would have been DDR. Wouldn't have to be DDR but it would need to be cap clearing around that money. Theoretically though OPJ was the salary filler in that case and in this hypothetical you can add OPJ...

That Gobert trade was ridiculed from day 1. Fair market would certainly be closer to a high end all star for that package.

I mean, aren’t we trading Lavine for that without blinking?

[Muzbar]

Continuity continues...

[PJSteven22]

A

What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

what would WCJ Coby and Pat get ?

A better player than Vuc

[dougthonus]

A

What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

what would WCJ Coby and Pat get ?

A better player than Vuc

WCJ is just a better player than Vuc on half the contract, so that seems fair.

[PaKii94]

i still think the 3-man lineup stats is flawed as it's missing context of who the two other players are.

Overall yes the trio is -0.4

Pre All-star break

w/ Ayo and Williams: +1.1

w/ Caruso and Williams: +7.2

w/ Caruso and Ayo: +7.8

w/ Coby and Williams: -0.9

w/ Caruso and White: +6.7

w/ Ayo and DJJ: -14.2

w/ Dragic and Williams: -34

w/ Green and Ayo: -52



Post All-Star break:

w/ Beverley and Caruso: +14.7

w/ Coby and Pat: +33.2

w/ Coby and Caruso: +90 somehow

then at the same time, you have:

w/ Beverley and Williams: -31

w/ Beverley and White: -10

w/ Beverley and Dosunmu: -35


The answer could be Coby and Pat - which would be excellent for our cap space. Would still want better, more complimentary depth than we've had in the past.

The xfactor is easily Caruso. Big 3 are just mid 3

[bad knees]

Hollinger on The Athletic is saying that, because his extension did not involve a raise, Vuc is immediately tradeable. Like next month. I can’t see the Bulls pulling a fast one like that, but I guess it’s possible.

[Michael Jackson]

What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

None of those. It would get you half of Rudy Gobert lol. It could have gotten Beal but we needed to add more expiring salary, in this case I guess would have been DDR. Wouldn't have to be DDR but it would need to be cap clearing around that money. Theoretically though OPJ was the salary filler in that case and in this hypothetical you can add OPJ...

That Gobert trade was ridiculed from day 1. Fair market would certainly be closer to a high end all star for that package.

I mean, aren’t we trading Lavine for that without blinking?

Yeah the Gobert was in there for sarcasm. I still don't know what the two FRP's and WCJ (who isn't a positive nor negative value) gets you. WCJ is ho hum and 8 and 11 are better than non lotto picks but also not as valued as a top 5 (at best sometimes mostly just top 3) are. I think fair to say had EWCJ stayed with the Bulls he would have had an even bigger contract than he does now. I mean this is hypothetical of course but basically the comparison would be what does Pat Williams and two future firsts get the Bulls. Pat might still have a ceiling that WCJ doesn't and has one more year on his rookie deal than WCJ had at the time. I just don't think that gets you any on the list. I go back to Bradley Beal. Washington would be the team or maybe Charlotte? Houston is looking more vet as is OKC as they both have enough assets. Ainge is going to offer Sexton or Clarkson... Very tough to say overall but it isn't a franchise changer IMHO. Zach, Pat and two firsts might get you something of nice value though, simply because if there is a win now team they can use Zach, Pat has some promise (like Covington did at some point) and Dallas would love it but not much to get back...

[Michael Jackson]

Hollinger on The Athletic is saying that, because his extension did not involve a raise, Vuc is immediately tradeable. Like next month. I can’t see the Bulls pulling a fast one like that, but I guess it’s possible.

I thought it was 6 months though on contracts.... is that only because of raises? Damn I don't know all the little tricky stuff like Zach had some January date for his. I mean Hollinger would know this better than me but it might be a smarter play than a sign and trade in that case. Seriously though I think there is some restriction on it. Maybe because it was before FA starts?

[jordanwilliams6]

This is a completely fine and neutral deal. The Bulls will easily be able to dump him on another team without giving up any assets if they decide to blow it up at any point.

You can question the fit with the team but we would not have been able to attain a similar level center without giving up assets or overpaying in FA.

We’re going to run it back with the exact same squad with a few minor changes. They’ll be given until the trade deadline to prove their worth.

[chitownsports4ever]

A

What would WCJ, pick 8, and pick 11 get the Bulls in a trade today? Dame? Zion? Jaylen Brown?

what would WCJ Coby and Pat get ?

A better player than Vuc

I doubt it but I guess its something to strive towards

[bad knees]

Hollinger on The Athletic is saying that, because his extension did not involve a raise, Vuc is immediately tradeable. Like next month. I can’t see the Bulls pulling a fast one like that, but I guess it’s possible.

I thought it was 6 months though on contracts.... is that only because of raises? Damn I don't know all the little tricky stuff like Zach had some January date for his. I mean Hollinger would know this better than me but it might be a smarter play than a sign and trade in that case. Seriously though I think there is some restriction on it. Maybe because it was before FA starts?

Here is what Hollinger wrote:

The other reason to sing this extension now, rather than wait out free agency and see if Vooch could be retained for less, is that Vučević is immediately tradeable on an extension, but not as a free agent. (Also, they won’t be penalized a draft pick for leaking this on June 28, but hey, bygones).

Unlike most extensions, Vučević’s contract can be traded in July because his salary did not increase by more than 5 percent in the extension (in fact it almost certainly will decrease in 2023-24, based on the reported contract dollars), and the extension is not for more than three years. Thus, Chicago lost none of its optionality to make an upgrade on the trade market if one becomes available, and could use Vooch’s estimated $18 million in 2023-24 as a salary match.

[League Circles]

Hollinger on The Athletic is saying that, because his extension did not involve a raise, Vuc is immediately tradeable. Like next month. I can’t see the Bulls pulling a fast one like that, but I guess it’s possible.

I thought it was 6 months though on contracts.... is that only because of raises? Damn I don't know all the little tricky stuff like Zach had some January date for his. I mean Hollinger would know this better than me but it might be a smarter play than a sign and trade in that case. Seriously though I think there is some restriction on it. Maybe because it was before FA starts?

Here is what Hollinger wrote:

The other reason to sing this extension now, rather than wait out free agency and see if Vooch could be retained for less, is that Vučević is immediately tradeable on an extension, but not as a free agent. (Also, they won’t be penalized a draft pick for leaking this on June 28, but hey, bygones).

Unlike most extensions, Vučević’s contract can be traded in July because his salary did not increase by more than 5 percent in the extension (in fact it almost certainly will decrease in 2023-24, based on the reported contract dollars), and the extension is not for more than three years. Thus, Chicago lost none of its optionality to make an upgrade on the trade market if one becomes available, and could use Vooch’s estimated $18 million in 2023-24 as a salary match.

If this is accurate, and AK traded him like next week, that would be the most gangster move ever in am NBA FO. I'd love it.

[MrSparkle]

Hollinger on The Athletic is saying that, because his extension did not involve a raise, Vuc is immediately tradeable. Like next month. I can’t see the Bulls pulling a fast one like that, but I guess it’s possible.

I thought it was 6 months though on contracts.... is that only because of raises? Damn I don't know all the little tricky stuff like Zach had some January date for his. I mean Hollinger would know this better than me but it might be a smarter play than a sign and trade in that case. Seriously though I think there is some restriction on it. Maybe because it was before FA starts?

Here is what Hollinger wrote:

The other reason to sing this extension now, rather than wait out free agency and see if Vooch could be retained for less, is that Vučević is immediately tradeable on an extension, but not as a free agent. (Also, they won’t be penalized a draft pick for leaking this on June 28, but hey, bygones).

Unlike most extensions, Vučević’s contract can be traded in July because his salary did not increase by more than 5 percent in the extension (in fact it almost certainly will decrease in 2023-24, based on the reported contract dollars), and the extension is not for more than three years. Thus, Chicago lost none of its optionality to make an upgrade on the trade market if one becomes available, and could use Vooch’s estimated $18 million in 2023-24 as a salary match.

Cool beans. I think it was very important to watch him sign for the MLE somewhere.

I don't think Vuc is bringing back anything worthwhile, but nevertheless, it's better than losing him and not having any FA money besides the MLE.

[PJSteven22]

And the people sitting here loving this deal are going to be wondering why we’re 34-48 at the end of the year. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

[Betta Bulleavit]

A

what would WCJ Coby and Pat get ?

A better player than Vuc

WCJ is just a better player than Vuc on half the contract, so that seems fair.

I’m not exactly sure that WCJ is a better player than Vuc. Younger? Yes. But not necessarily better. Also, Vuc (on this deal) will make a little over 18M this year. WCJ will make about 13.5. Less, but not by half. Just me being a bit technical I guess.

[PJSteven22]

A

what would WCJ Coby and Pat get ?

A better player than Vuc

I doubt it but I guess its something to strive towards

You probably could’ve gotten DeJounte Murray who’s a better player than Vuc.