Cowley: Bulls Zoned in on Demin at 12

[Chi town]

https://www.youtube.com/live/tLBkJlfoIjw?si=zeC7TfnxJkTijmAf

Good nuggets here about Demin. Dude has him going 6th to Wiz.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Denims shot looks good and he’s really young and there’s no reason to believe it won’t get better, even post ncaa season to now you can see he’s working on it. I wouldn’t worry about it all.

He’s super scrawny and that’ll get better too and the stronger he gets the better his handle will look. It’ll help him get into the lane and finish at the next level. Might have to have him guard 2-3s at the next level and I wouldn’t want him bulking up to guard bigger 4s.

With exceptional passing comes exceptional IQ and that’s on both ends. I can see him being a very good system defender but he’s never going to be your point of attack on that end. We’ll really be hard up for a defensive center but you can’t fix everything all at once. Maybe we draft a defensive C with out second pick.

That IQ is going to get him smart shots within his limitations and keep the ball moving getting people involved. I wasn’t the biggest fan until I saw the improvement in his jumper it’s looking cleaner and cleaner.

I wanted Asa at one point and was hoping he would’ve grown since he last got measured but I’m not into him anymore. PF size and C game is usually a bad idea. Hes too small and long enough to play C which is where I wanted him. Not enough ball skills and handle to play the 4 for me.

I’ll be very happy with Denim - Noa is probably my favorite but we definitely will be getting an ever improving player in Denim he isn’t going to plateau for a long time.

He also came up through Real Madrid so you know fundamentally it’s all there.

[Dan Z]

His shot numbers look very similar to Dalen and Dalen plays way better D.

Didn't people also think that Terry was a good passer for his size? I seem to recall that some thought he should play PG.

He was a good passer in college. Haven’t really seen it in the NBA. He also could have never played point in the NBA. His handles stink.

But there are two really important things being overlooked by anyone invoking Terry’s name in a conversation about Demin:

1. There is an ocean between Terry’s passing ability as a prospect and Demin’s.

2. Demin’s shot mechanics are strong. All the fundamentals are there for a teenager to improve. Terry’s shot mechanics were completely broken (and though improved, are still poor).

It's interesting that Dalen Terry shot better than Denim in college (even thought he had less attempts per game)

I agree with you that Denim has more potential than Terry, although he's a difficult player to really gauge. I could see him working out, but could also see him being a bust.

[nomorezorro]

on demin's shooting - obviously he has the potential to improve, but

1) just because there's a path to shot improvement doesn't mean there isn't legitimate reason to be concerned about a guy being an actively bad shooter over the course of a full college season

2) there is a difference between matas having a bad shooting season as a prospect when 3pt attempts are a little over a quarter of his total shot profile vs. egor having a bad shooting season when 3pt attempts are more than 50% of his overall attempts. matas probably needs to at least be an adequate 3pt shooter for him to succeed in the nba, but he's got athleticism/aggression/defensive upside that makes it so that he's not totally reliant on shooting improvements to succeed.

demin's game feels like it more or less hinges on becoming not just an adequate shooter, but a plus shooter - he just doesn't have the skillset where you can project him putting meaningful pressure on defenses if they don't respect his shot. the passing is nice, but how many players in the league have a spot based purely on passing ability? the ballhandling could theoretically improve, but the athleticism is probably always going to be a limiting factor in terms of his ability to probe a defense in a halfcourt setting. he shot so many 3s in college because he couldn't reliably do much else as a scorer, and it feels reasonable to assume that's going to continue in the nba

[JohnnyKILLroy]

on demin's shooting - obviously he has the potential to improve, but

1) just because there's a path to shot improvement doesn't mean there isn't legitimate reason to be concerned about a guy being an actively bad shooter over the course of a full college season

2) there is a difference between matas having a bad shooting season as a prospect when 3pt attempts are a little over a quarter of his total shot profile vs. egor having a bad shooting season when 3pt attempts are more than 50% of his overall attempts. matas probably needs to at least be an adequate 3pt shooter for him to succeed in the nba, but he's got athleticism/aggression/defensive upside that makes it so that he's not totally reliant on shooting improvements to succeed.

demin's game feels like it more or less hinges on becoming not just an adequate shooter, but a plus shooter - he just doesn't have the skillset where you can project him putting meaningful pressure on defenses if they don't respect his shot. the passing is nice, but how many players in the league have a spot based purely on passing ability? the ballhandling could theoretically improve, but the athleticism is probably always going to be a limiting factor in terms of his ability to probe a defense in a halfcourt setting. he shot so many 3s in college because he couldn't reliably do much else as a scorer, and it feels reasonable to assume that's going to continue in the nba

He won’t be first option with us - the quality of his looks will get better and easier. He’ll be 4th-5th option on offense to start out and then he’ll move up the pecking order as he acclimates to the NBA. At BYU it was all on him. That won’t be the case at the next level he’ll be able to hit open ones.

[nomorezorro]

he was the no. 2 scoring option on his college team

[nomorezorro]

also "he'll just make shots instead of missing them " is not a particularly compelling case for player development

[Chi town]

on demin's shooting - obviously he has the potential to improve, but

1) just because there's a path to shot improvement doesn't mean there isn't legitimate reason to be concerned about a guy being an actively bad shooter over the course of a full college season

2) there is a difference between matas having a bad shooting season as a prospect when 3pt attempts are a little over a quarter of his total shot profile vs. egor having a bad shooting season when 3pt attempts are more than 50% of his overall attempts. matas probably needs to at least be an adequate 3pt shooter for him to succeed in the nba, but he's got athleticism/aggression/defensive upside that makes it so that he's not totally reliant on shooting improvements to succeed.

demin's game feels like it more or less hinges on becoming not just an adequate shooter, but a plus shooter - he just doesn't have the skillset where you can project him putting meaningful pressure on defenses if they don't respect his shot. the passing is nice, but how many players in the league have a spot based purely on passing ability? the ballhandling could theoretically improve, but the athleticism is probably always going to be a limiting factor in terms of his ability to probe a defense in a halfcourt setting. he shot so many 3s in college because he couldn't reliably do much else as a scorer, and it feels reasonable to assume that's going to continue in the nba

Bingo on all accounts.

That’s why it’s an easy pass from me.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

he was the no. 2 scoring option on his college team

Even then it’ll be an easier task with us. No.1 as in the balls in his hands the most. My point being we have a passing savant in Giddey already and that kind of pressure won’t be on him right away. Giddey is going to make his life easier and Denim can and will grown into more responsibility. We’re not going to throw him into it and tell him to run the offense and hit 40% of his 3s of every variety.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

also "he'll just make shots instead of missing them " is not a particularly compelling case for player development

You don’t see he can hit open threes in his stroke? It’s good form it’s clean and it’s getting better his shot isn’t broken. You believe in Matas stroke but not Denims? There’s nothing wrong with it. Not talking percentages here just his stroke it’s nice.

[MrSparkle]

I don’t see any reason for skepticism with Denim. IMO you guys are overthinking this.

He is barely 19yo, elite vision and handles for strong/lanky/mobile 6’9. Done deal for me. Only reason he busts is if he gets injured a lot, is a complete locker-room jackass, or he has lazy work ethic. I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but I see him as a floor solid rotation player, or a ceiling bigger impact primary creator.

I don’t see the point of comparing Dalen nor Giddey. Dalen was billed as a “connector” and defender, and wasn’t touted as a primary handler or creator. Frankly his defense and overall shooting/passing/handles have been below par. If he improved more in all areas, he would’ve been fine, but what really hurts is he never had 1 thing to lean on that he’s exceptionally good at (inc. defense).

Rookie Giddey had/has the mobility of Uncle Jimmy on social security at the YMCA. Egor can highlight reel dunk in traffic. They provide a similar skill, but are very different athletes (and positions).

And I don’t have a problem with playing 2 (hell, give me 3-5) players with vision. The key is too have some shooting and rim protection, but again, you can address those issues with accessible assets, especially if your lanky frontcourt is generating the on-ball action (undersized shooters are freebies in the NBA). And Giddey is showing he can spot-up shoot.

[Dan Z]

I don’t see any reason for skepticism with Denim. IMO you guys are overthinking this.

He is barely 19yo, elite vision and handles for strong/lanky/mobile 6’9. Done deal for me. Only reason he busts is if he gets injured a lot, is a complete locker-room jackass, or he has lazy work ethic. I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but I see him as a floor solid rotation player, or a ceiling bigger impact primary creator.

I don’t see the point of comparing Dalen nor Giddey. Dalen was billed as a “connector” and defender, and wasn’t touted as a primary handler or creator. Frankly his defense and overall shooting/passing/handles have been below par. If he improved more in all areas, he would’ve been fine, but what really hurts is he never had 1 thing to lean on that he’s exceptionally good at (inc. defense).

Rookie Giddey had/has the mobility of Uncle Jimmy on social security at the YMCA. Egor can highlight reel dunk in traffic. They provide a similar skill, but are very different athletes (and positions).

And I don’t have a problem with playing 2 (hell, give me 3-5) players with vision. The key is too have some shooting and rim protection, but again, you can address those issues with accessible assets, especially if your lanky frontcourt is generating the on-ball action (undersized shooters are freebies in the NBA). And Giddey is showing he can spot-up shoot.

If AK picks Denim I'd be okay with it (unless someone like KJ drops and the Bulls pass on him), but I can understand the concerns people have with him.

His college stats weren't very good and he's a tall player known for his passing ability, which fits a similar profile to Giddey. However, I like Ducks idea of having a team with a group of players who are good at passing.

[cocktailswith_2short]

He will be gone before we pick .

[Chi town]

He will be gone before we pick .

I hope so.

I do believe a really good player will drop.

[DuckIII]

He will be gone before we pick .

Things will probably get more predictable over the next few weeks, but right now it feels like 7-16 could go a lot of different directions. Really hard to get a feel for it, which in this particular draft is a good thing because the debate is over different guys with different qualities. But all with legitimate reasons to take them. It’s a deep pool despite all the various flaws.

[Clint Eastwood]

Im ok with him, has some uniqueness. But if we have a shot at derrick queen and pass, we will regret it.

[Hangtime84]

I mean AK likes IQ, playmaking, and high motor players.

AK also build his NBA resume by being large part of the initial basketball international push.

Demin

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I'll preface this by saying that I know a little bit about each player so I have a generally idea who I like and don't like... but I'm certainly not an expert in many cases.

With that said, I'll be okay with Demin. I think a lineup of Coby/Giddey/Demin/Matas/C could be really entertaining and might might be our "zag" when other teams are "zigging". Is that the right phrasing? Who cares.

The only important step after drafting Demin would be acquiring the right type of center. The tall, shot blocking type. With all the length we'd have, he wouldn't even need to defend on the perimeter or switch on guards. Just a guy who can defend the rim and catch lobs all day.

In summary:
Coby/Giddey/Demin/Matas/Vuc = Train Wreck
Coby/Giddey/Demin/Matas/Kessler = Exciting

[TheSuzerain]

he was the no. 2 scoring option on his college team

Nah not really. More of 3rd/4th in terms of actual scoring when on court.

Also averaged 0.4 ORBs per 40.

[Mk0]

I mean AK likes IQ, playmaking, and high motor players.

AK also build his NBA resume by being large part of the initial basketball international push.

Demin

I dunno man he drafted Patrick Williams after all