Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Well I don't have faith in GarPax doing this.

But I don't know who the potential FA are in 2018.

Fact is, if you are a winning team with Butler, players will want to join IMO.

Hopefully they become that winning team because right now they aren't not sure who they can land this summer TBH

Not sure either. CP3 will re-extend. He's a pipe-dream.

You have to convince players that the bulls are a better situation than their current one. Not sure how you do that. You need a disgruntled star to join. And actually, you need 2 or 3 disgruntled stars to join, because one star joining a .500 team isn't winning the championship. Hell, Lebron could join and the bulls are losing to the warriors, badly.

This line of thinking is a much larger pipe dream than tanking.

[Rerisen]

Bulls won't do anything too soon I'd think, while tonight was a unfortunate one with Jimmy ill, they need to see more how the team looks post Rondo. Wizards also looks like a wash out with Butler and Wade missing, but after that should have a good run to the deadline to see if demoting Rondo makes a significant difference.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

Trade Lopez for Bogut's expiring deal

Give a team with cap space $3.5 million and a 2nd round pick to eat Rondo's $3 million guarantee next season

Have Wade opt out and resign for 3 years, $45 million

Sign Hayward to the max

Sign Ibaka 4 years starting at $20 million

Sign Pachulia with the room MLE

Hayward 30,000,000
Ibaka 20,000,000
Butler 18,696,918
Wade 14,000,000
Mirotic 8,673,675 (cap hold)
McDermott 3,294,994
Pachulia Room MLE
Valentine 2,186,400
Grant 1,713,840
Portis 1,516,320
Felicio 1,214,746 (cap hold)
1st round pick 1,000,000
Zipser 905,249
TOTAL $103,202,142

Ibaka
Mirotic
Hayward
Butler
Grant

Pachulia
Felicio
McDermott
Wade
Valentine

Portis, Zipser, 1st round pick

[kingkirk]

Fact is, if you are a winning team with Butler, players will want to join IMO.

You can't start a sentence with 'fact is' then finish it with 'imo'. It's an oxymoron.

[kingkirk]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

Trade Lopez for Bogut's expiring deal

Give a team with cap space $3.5 million and a 2nd round pick to eat Rondo's $3 million guarantee next season

Have Wade opt out and resign for 3 years, $45 million

Sign Hayward to the max

Sign Ibaka 4 years starting at $20 million

Sign Pachulia with the room MLE

Hayward 30,000,000
Ibaka 20,000,000
Butler 18,696,918
Wade 14,000,000
Mirotic 8,673,675 (cap hold)
McDermott 3,294,994
Pachulia Room MLE
Valentine 2,186,400
Grant 1,713,840
Portis 1,516,320
Felicio 1,214,746 (cap hold)
1st round pick 1,000,000
Zipser 905,249
TOTAL $103,202,142

Ibaka
Mirotic
Hayward
Butler
Grant

Pachulia
Felicio
McDermott
Wade
Valentine

Portis, Zipser, 1st round pick

Explain to me why Hayward leaves Utah, a better team which he is the focal point of, who can give him more money, to join the Bulls?

If Hayward leaves the money on the table, he's going to Boston.

Also, Ibaka isn't good, and he isn't a center.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

Trade Lopez for Bogut's expiring deal

Give a team with cap space $3.5 million and a 2nd round pick to eat Rondo's $3 million guarantee next season

Have Wade opt out and resign for 3 years, $45 million

Sign Hayward to the max

Sign Ibaka 4 years starting at $20 million

Sign Pachulia with the room MLE

Hayward 30,000,000
Ibaka 20,000,000
Butler 18,696,918
Wade 14,000,000
Mirotic 8,673,675 (cap hold)
McDermott 3,294,994
Pachulia Room MLE
Valentine 2,186,400
Grant 1,713,840
Portis 1,516,320
Felicio 1,214,746 (cap hold)
1st round pick 1,000,000
Zipser 905,249
TOTAL $103,202,142

Ibaka
Mirotic
Hayward
Butler
Grant

Pachulia
Felicio
McDermott
Wade
Valentine

Portis, Zipser, 1st round pick

Good looking team.

No chance to win a championship. Don't come close to beating Cleveland, who would be better at every position sans Butler at the shooting guard spot. But they could make the ECF, but I'd probably take Boston over them too. Team maxes out at 3-5 seed.

And yeah, I have no idea why Hayward would come here.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Ibaka isn't a center, but neither is Tristan Thompson, the staring center for the defending NBA champs. And the Warriors play a center for about 1/2 the game, of course Pachulia is pretty special...

Why did Hayward want to go to Charlotte in the summer of 2014, to play for a 43-win team with zero all-stars on the roster?

Why should 28 teams even try, since nobody is beating Cleveland or Golden State in the next 5 years?

Why did the 2011 Mavericks and 2014 Spurs even bother showing up for the NBA Finals, since nobody could be Miami with all their superstars?

[kingkirk]

Ibaka isn't a center, but neither is Tristan Thompson, the staring center for the defending NBA champs. And the Warriors play a center for about 1/2 the game, of course Pachulia is pretty special...

Why did Hayward want to go to Charlotte in the summer of 2014, to play for a 43-win team with zero all-stars on the roster?

Why should 28 teams even try, since nobody is beating Cleveland or Golden State in the next 5 years?

Why did the 2011 Mavericks and 2014 Spurs even bother showing up for the NBA Finals, since nobody could be Miami with all their superstars?

Hayward went to the Hornets to force Utah's hand in giving him a max deal. They matched and he remained a Jazz player.

[Threekola]

I feel like it's really hard to know whether the Bulls should trade Jimmy or not. On one hand, if it's possible we could land another superstar, like Demarcus Cousins, then I think you'd be insane not to go that route and rebuild. Or maybe even if you get a guy like Gordon Hayward this offseason and keep some flexibility to pursue the next disgruntled star, that makes sense. On the other hand, if your options are Paul Millsap and Jrue Holiday, then please just give it up, you'll never win.

Then again, that assumes we can get a reasonable return for Jimmy. The reported offers from Boston and Minnesota were terrible. I've seen people throw around getting both the 76ers' picks and one of their centers. That's an amazing offer. But really hard to have an informed opinion not knowing who we can get to go with Jimmy, or what the package coming back would be,

[dumbell78]

Ibaka isn't a center, but neither is Tristan Thompson, the staring center for the defending NBA champs. And the Warriors play a center for about 1/2 the game, of course Pachulia is pretty special...

The moment we have a LeBron, Kyrie, Curry, Green, KD, Thompson, etc. on our team I will be all over Ibaka as our center. Otherwise its an awful situation to be locked into. I rather swing for the fences with Taj as my starter if Ibaka locked up for five years is the main alternative.

[tedwilliams1999]

The odds of drafting a superstar with a draft pick from the 7-15 range aren't that much lower than getting one with a 1-5 pick. The solution is simple, and it'll appease both the pro-tanking crowd and the anti-tankers: Keep Jimmy and do a mini-tank. Trade Taj and Niko for assets. Draft a player who has athleticism and actually has some upside. Hope for the best in free-agency. Maybe we'll get lucky and pick up a Giannis or a Miles Turner, or maybe we'll just delay the inevitable rebuild until Jimmy leaves. Either way, the team should be watchable for the foreseeable future, especially if we can pick up a high ceiling player through the draft. There's only so much excitement we can get from watching low-ceiling, role players develop...

[kingkirk]

What assets are you getting for Gibson and Mirotic?

The Hawks got a protected 1st for Korver, but only did so because the Hawks took on salary from the Cavs to get it.

The obvious answer for Taj is to trade him to Toronto, but the Raptors aren't giving up Terrence Ross and a 1st for less than 40 games of Gibson, he could walk.

[GimmeDat]

The odds of drafting a superstar with a draft pick from the 7-15 range aren't that much lower than getting one with a 1-5 pick.

I really don't think this is true.

[realEAST]

What assets are you getting for Gibson and Mirotic?

The Hawks got a protected 1st for Korver, but only did so because the Hawks took on salary from the Cavs to get it.

The obvious answer for Taj is to trade him to Toronto, but the Raptors aren't giving up Terrence Ross and a 1st for less than 40 games of Gibson, he could walk.

If traded soon, their value is going to be considerably higher than month from now.
Gibson wouldnt have net us 1st and Ross, the way Ross has been playing this year. Sulinger and better of TOR/LAC would be the max, despite good entrance to season from Gibson. Also, his locker room status is important factor here.
He might be the one who goes for free at the season end or gets extended due to that.

As for Mirotic, I hope we (can) flip him along Grant to Kings for Cauley Stein (+Casspi) sooner or later. Makes sense for both teams imo. Besides that, its the only Mirotic deal returning us good prospect that I can see hapening. Guess it beats him going to Hornets for pick or Oklahoma for a far away pick.
(Hm, maybe for an OKC deal: Mirotic, Grant for Payne, Singler; but I'd prefer WCS probably)

[League Circles]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

Trade Lopez for Bogut's expiring deal

Give a team with cap space $3.5 million and a 2nd round pick to eat Rondo's $3 million guarantee next season

Have Wade opt out and resign for 3 years, $45 million

Sign Hayward to the max

Sign Ibaka 4 years starting at $20 million

Sign Pachulia with the room MLE

Hayward 30,000,000
Ibaka 20,000,000
Butler 18,696,918
Wade 14,000,000
Mirotic 8,673,675 (cap hold)
McDermott 3,294,994
Pachulia Room MLE
Valentine 2,186,400
Grant 1,713,840
Portis 1,516,320
Felicio 1,214,746 (cap hold)
1st round pick 1,000,000
Zipser 905,249
TOTAL $103,202,142

Ibaka
Mirotic
Hayward
Butler
Grant

Pachulia
Felicio
McDermott
Wade
Valentine

Portis, Zipser, 1st round pick

Explain to me why Hayward leaves Utah, a better team which he is the focal point of, who can give him more money, to join the Bulls?

If Hayward leaves the money on the table, he's going to Boston.

Also, Ibaka isn't good, and he isn't a center.

A ton of people would rather make 30 million dollars a year in Chicago than in Salt Lake City. It's far from a fair assumption that Hayward is one of them, but I suspect like a lot of people, money and work location are by far the two most important factors in where they want to play, over winning and touches and other things.

The funnier assumption is why would Zaza take equal or less money to go from the best team in the league in arguably the best city in the league to the Bulls. Or why in the hell Wade would give Gordon Hayward nearly 10 million dollars of his money to take his role.

[Rerisen]

The odds of drafting a superstar with a draft pick from the 7-15 range aren't that much lower than getting one with a 1-5 pick.

I really don't think this is true.

Maybe not to get a true megastar. But if you keep Jimmy in a mini tank, really don't need a megastar. Just need another Jimmy or Gordon Hayward, or Noah type find, both who were drafted at 9.

In a mini tank the Bulls would have their own lottery pick, possibly the King pick around 10-15, then potentially a 3rd pick from shopping Taj/Doug/Mirotic. Plus a fair bit of money in FA.

Jimmy's great deal is a luxury first block, because you can clear half the team off, and he alone keeps your floor around 35 wins. Heck many players on the roster right now aren't that much better than replacement players. We just think they are because of 'potential'. But a guy like Doug McDermott, he's not doing anything for us nightly more than a minimum rent Morrow type. And Niko isn't much better.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Ibaka isn't a center, but neither is Tristan Thompson, the staring center for the defending NBA champs. And the Warriors play a center for about 1/2 the game, of course Pachulia is pretty special...

Why did Hayward want to go to Charlotte in the summer of 2014, to play for a 43-win team with zero all-stars on the roster?

Why should 28 teams even try, since nobody is beating Cleveland or Golden State in the next 5 years?

Why did the 2011 Mavericks and 2014 Spurs even bother showing up for the NBA Finals, since nobody could be Miami with all their superstars?

Not all 28 teams have no chance to beat those two teams over the next 5 years. Some teams have the talent and core now, to where if they added a couple pieces, could beat them. The bulls aren't one of them. They don't have the stars or even good long term role players to compete. They'd be a bottom 3-5 team without Butler.

All you need is a little forward thinking to see if you start rebuilding NOW, the team could be poised to compete in 3-5 years, which would coincide with the timeline of Lebron and the cavs falling out of contention. It makes perfect sense.

If the Cubs had no forward thinking and listened to the fans, who got some strange satisfaction from being a .500 ball club, they'd be a .500 ball club right now. Instead, they're at the beginning of what could be a dynasty.

[JordansBulls]

We basically have a peak Carmelo Anthony right now in Jimmy Butler, why trade him? It's like trading someone near the level of peak Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Dominique Wilkins to give an example.

[Lauri_Legend]

We basically have a peak Carmelo Anthony right now in Jimmy Butler, why trade him? It's like trading someone near the level of peak Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Dominique Wilkins to give an example.

We should focus to build around him, not trade him. Bring over Whiteside.

[Lauri_Legend]

What assets are you getting for Gibson and Mirotic?

The Hawks got a protected 1st for Korver, but only did so because the Hawks took on salary from the Cavs to get it.

The obvious answer for Taj is to trade him to Toronto, but the Raptors aren't giving up Terrence Ross and a 1st for less than 40 games of Gibson, he could walk.

Bulls would have jeopardize their future by trading away future draft picks and our core young players to get back a difference maker like Whiteside. Is it worth it? Well, building a young core hasn't worked out too well for us. But you also don't want to get screwed like Brooklyn did when they put the KG Pierce Dwill Joe Johnson team together. Now they have no future.