OT- The Last Dance documentary

[nitetrain8603]

This confirmed to me that it was Jerry Reinsdorf and ownership and Krause was used as a fall guy. As I continually watched this, I kept saying, "Yes, Krause looks like he wants to end it and he's stupid - but if everyone else wants to win, why not cut him out?" I say that especially knowing how JR goes ahead and negotiates and does his own things at times.

In the end, Reinsdorf treated the Bulls as a pure investment. The way he talked in the last episode, talking about the market value, was disgusting. In the end, he treated them as commodities. He was only going to keep the ones that he get still get a positive ROI on. Even after turning the Bulls from a laughingstock (look how full Chicago stadium was prior to Michael) to surpassing the Lakers and Celtics in popularity; Michael and the players didn't get a chance to finish it the way they EARNED.

It never made sense for MJ, Pip, Phil and JR to not work it out. Unless one of them didn't want to work it out. In the end, JR didn't want it to work out. And it was due to greed. And he let JK go to the grave with that blame. While I appreciate the honesty, I think he damaged the brand even further last night, because the reason why they couldn't go out like they wanted is still in the organization.

If this was the White Sox, he would've kept them around. Hell, he kept Paul Konerko around way too long and they won one championship. The Bulls were winning championships, and he decided to tear them apart.

That hurts.

Sidenote: I think they should've ended the series with Bob Costas' words after they won their last championship and a montage of the years. Instead, it just kind of ended.

[johnnyvann840]

Rusty LaRue?

[nitetrain8603]

Those last two episodes were great. Reinsdorf at the end really pissed me off. It just seemed like such a cold takeaway about the guys who just won you a ring. Also seeing how hungry and angry Jordan still is makes you wish you could just inject him with a youth serum or something.

All this talk about not wanting to end up like the Celtics ... in the end, we ended up worse than them.

It's basketball karma. In the end though, he's okay with it, because he's not paying for it. The fans did. The Bulls still have been top 3 in attendance since IIRC.

[nitetrain8603]

Episode 9. I understand this was "Kerr's episode" but not one single clip of Kukoc scoring his 21 points in Game 7? Toni was 1 point short of Reggie for the games 2nd highest scorer

I also think they should have shown Michael's failed drive in Game 6 with Bob Costa's famous "The Bulls and Pacers are going to the limit!" to even more set the moment. It was shown for a few seconds in the background of a Sportscenter clip

But there was a-lot packed into this episode.

Yeah, the one thing that bothers me is there's not enough praise for role players like Kukoc or hell, even Pippen.

Kukoc kept the Bulls in the game for Game 7. You could've used that against Pip and MJ not believing in him and thinking Krause was wasting his time.

Pippen going nuts in Game 4 of the 98 Finals from three. Or in Game 5 how Kukoc was the only reason the Bulls were in that game and had a chance.

[Jeffster81]

Those last two episodes were great. Reinsdorf at the end really pissed me off. It just seemed like such a cold takeaway about the guys who just won you a ring. Also seeing how hungry and angry Jordan still is makes you wish you could just inject him with a youth serum or something.

All this talk about not wanting to end up like the Celtics ... in the end, we ended up worse than them.

It's basketball karma. In the end though, he's okay with it, because he's not paying for it. The fans did. The Bulls still have been top 3 in attendance since IIRC.

Reinsdorf and company bought the Bulls for $16m I believe, today the Bulls are worth around 3.2b. He owed it to the players (not his fellows owners) to ride it to the end. Without Jordan and company Reinsdorf and his cronies would not be making money hand over fist with the Bulls brand. To be fair, all of those cronies who decided to break up the dynasty should step forward and face the music and not leave it all on Reinsdorf to shoulder.

[Ccwatercraft]

The crazy woman yelling obscenities at the Bulls in the 98 ECF's was Luke Kornet's mom. lol

Read on Twitter

Think she said she was joking later on

ya, I wouldn't brag about being that person on the video, i'd be laying low Bad PR move Mrs Kornet.

[dougthonus]

I enjoyed the series, but I think it would have been better if it were a story of the Bulls instead of a story of Jordan. I think lots of this was too white washed towards Jordan's image and not enough celebrating the team. I don't think Jordan went in and vetoed anything, but I think they pitched him on telling the story about him and then simply followed through with the pitch.

I still enjoyed it quite a bit though, and those were minor quibbles.

[Ccwatercraft]

i've only seen 9 episodes, i'll finish tonight, enjoyed the memories being recalled very much.

one side comment,(not a complaint just a comment.)

My aunt brought this up in a group chat... his family (wife, ex wife, kids) were noticeably absent except for I think his son being in one of the clips... I didn't notice it at first It did strike me as a bit odd.

Its as if they played no role whatsoever and had nothing to contribute, it is a bit strange since family is pretty important to me.

[HomoSapien]

Regarding Krause's last memoir entry from KC ... what a load of BS to make Rodman and Longley's status such a big focal point of why you couldn't bring back Michael Jordan. As a GM it's his job to get creative and try to fill in the holes. Longley, though he knew how to do his job, was infinitely replaceable. I mean, you could get Oliver Miller here on the minimum and he'll provide more interior defense, rebounding, and passing. Or if you're such a sleuth take a flyer on recently released hustle player like Scott Pollard or a young guy that can rebound like Jamie Feick. Not sure what kind of cap space we actually had, but Dino Radja was in Europe and could have been a Rodman replacement or supplement. Maybe give Carl Herrara, who knows what it takes to win a championship, some bench minutes. Plus if Longley's trade value was a first-round pick, then you have to assume he could have brought us back an actual rotation player from a different team.

Kerr's getting old and expensive? Sign Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf for the minimum. Or Bring back BJ Armstrong cheaply. Or sign a ring chaser like Terry Porter. Or a guy who just played well against you in the playoffs like Sherman Douglas. Need some depth? Dominique Wilkins just averaged 18 ppg the year before and is in Italy looking to get back in the NBA. Blue Edwards is desperately looking to get on a contender. Convince Mario Ellie that the Bulls are a better place to spend your twilight years than San Antonio.

There were ways to get replacements here. Ultimately it may not have worked, but we could've given Jordan a chance to get the next batch of guys ready.

[HomoSapien]

I enjoyed the series, but I think it would have been better if it were a story of the Bulls instead of a story of Jordan. I think lots of this was too white washed towards Jordan's image and not enough celebrating the team. I don't think Jordan went in and vetoed anything, but I think they pitched him on telling the story about him and then simply followed through with the pitch.

I still enjoyed it quite a bit though, and those were minor quibbles.

I loved the series, but it definitely wasn't what it was advertised to be. Like you said it was more about Jordan than the Bulls, and it was more about his career than the last season. I wanted to see more of that never before seen footage. As others mentioned some of the playoff series and moments from 98 were quickly blown through and there was barely any talk about Tim Floyd's hiring, no mention of the Caffey trade which was something that infuriated Jordan (I would have loved to see behind the scene clips on that) and their could shoulder to David Vaughn, and maybe some discussion of the aftermath of Jordan's retirement. Also, to my knowledge, he's never really spoken about the Wizards time besides one 60-Minute interview after the Pollen wouldn't give him his shares back. Would have liked to have him speak about his reflections on that and how much retiring prematurely played into that.

Also this documentary, for as great as it is, feels incomplete without Luc Longley.

[logical_art]

I'm a little surprised by all the positive media attention to LeBron in the MJ comparison.

Nobody brings up him quitting on his team (Cleveland) and assembling a super team and then essentially quitting on his team in the first finals vs one of the worst finals teams ever (Dallas). Then he quit on his new team and assembled another super team. Rinse and repeat and now he's on LAL.

And Mike gets dinged for being hard on teammates. At least he tried to improve the talent he was given. LeBron acts nice but then gets guys traded or fired behind closed doors, or switches teams.

All the talk is how LBJ just different than MJ. No he's not just different. He's an objectively worse competitor who has done the game a lot of damage. That's the opposite of MJ.

And then people praise LeBron for his involvement in the community, MJ did that. He just did it quietly, unlike LeBron who never misses a moment to bloviate and self aggrandize.

[nitetrain8603]

Those last two episodes were great. Reinsdorf at the end really pissed me off. It just seemed like such a cold takeaway about the guys who just won you a ring. Also seeing how hungry and angry Jordan still is makes you wish you could just inject him with a youth serum or something.

All this talk about not wanting to end up like the Celtics ... in the end, we ended up worse than them.

It's basketball karma. In the end though, he's okay with it, because he's not paying for it. The fans did. The Bulls still have been top 3 in attendance since IIRC.

Reinsdorf and company bought the Bulls for $16m I believe, today the Bulls are worth around 3.2b. He owed it to the players (not his fellows owners) to ride it to the end. Without Jordan and company Reinsdorf and his cronies would not be making money hand over fist with the Bulls brand. To be fair, all of those cronies who decided to break up the dynasty should step forward and face the music and not leave it all on Reinsdorf to shoulder.

I agree, but they won't. This is how tonedeaf ownership is. They think fans are also trying to win the financial championship with them. That's how JR is able to say those words with no issue. His love in sports was always baseball and not basketball. So for him, he didn't have the personal bond to the sport, but the craziest thing is, he didn't even have it to the team. That's just sad as {expletive}

[JOHN]

I hope the younger Bulls fans enjoyed this.

The ownership gradually **** up the Chicago Bulls brand and with the Covid-19 situation things will only get worse for them financially.

Nobody gives a **** about GarPax being removed.

The common denominator is Reinsdorf and the rest of the **** ownership members.Kudos to them they managed to profit and ride MJ's aura for almost 16-17 years and some push of luck from David Stern (DRose).

This **** team let Michael Jordan...retire in another jersey.

[JohnnyTapwater]

Man. I didn't know Phil Jackson had the team do a RITUAL where they burned what the team meant to them in a coffee can.

With the energy around that moment for those players, I wouldn't be shocked if the organization had a hex put on them.

Look at all the ill-will from ending things too soon. I would not be shocked.

I'm such a divergent thinker that I am now running this with theory. lol.

Maybe it lasted 23 years from 1998.

2021 it'll be lifted.

[HomoSapien]

DiGorno's response to MJ's food poisoning:

Read on Twitter

[dougthonus]

Regarding Krause's last memoir entry from KC ... what a load of BS to make Rodman and Longley's status such a big focal point of why you couldn't bring back Michael Jordan. As a GM it's his job to get creative and try to fill in the holes. Longley, though he knew how to do his job, was infinitely replaceable. I mean, you could get Oliver Miller here on the minimum and he'll provide more interior defense, rebounding, and passing. Or if you're such a sleuth take a flyer on recently released hustle player like Scott Pollard or a young guy that can rebound like Jamie Feick. Not sure what kind of cap space we actually had, but Dino Radja was in Europe and could have been a Rodman replacement or supplement. Maybe give Carl Herrara, who knows what it takes to win a championship, some bench minutes. Plus if Longley's trade value was a first-round pick, then you have to assume he could have brought us back an actual rotation player from a different team.

Kerr's getting old and expensive? Sign Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf for the minimum. Or Bring back BJ Armstrong cheaply. Or sign a ring chaser like Terry Porter. Or a guy who just played well against you in the playoffs like Sherman Douglas. Need some depth? Dominique Wilkins just averaged 18 ppg the year before and is in Italy looking to get back in the NBA. Blue Edwards is desperately looking to get on a contender. Convince Mario Ellie that the Bulls are a better place to spend your twilight years than San Antonio.

There were ways to get replacements here. Ultimately it may not have worked, but we could've given Jordan a chance to get the next batch of guys ready.

My opinion on blame of the break up definitely shifted to blame Reinsdorf more and everyone else much less. I always felt it was an issue between Jackson/Krause that was at the heart of it, but Jerry Reinsdorf, in his own words, with years to reflect, described it as "suicidal" to bring everyone back and discussing the expenses.

Jordan is probably responsible for a good half a billion to one billion in extra profits for Reinsdorf over the course of the franchise. There was nothing suicidal here, you weren't going out of business or threatening to go out of business. You weren't going to lose money for a year or anything. You were just going to make a little less. For a guy who basically got 200x growth on his investment, Reinsdorf sure is a greedy SOB.

I think that's the most disturbing thing for die hard fans to understand right now and just as damning, if not more so, than Krause's "I don't care if you go 82-0 you won't come back" quote.

[MrSparkle]

i've only seen 9 episodes, i'll finish tonight, enjoyed the memories being recalled very much.

one side comment,(not a complaint just a comment.)

My aunt brought this up in a group chat... his family (wife, ex wife, kids) were noticeably absent except for I think his son being in one of the clips... I didn't notice it at first It did strike me as a bit odd.

Its as if they played no role whatsoever and had nothing to contribute, it is a bit strange since family is pretty important to me.

Yeah. Well all 3 of his kids made at least 1 appearance, but the wives might've been MJ's (or Juanita's) request, to keep them out of it.

[Big Pippen]

Regarding Krause's last memoir entry from KC ... what a load of BS to make Rodman and Longley's status such a big focal point of why you couldn't bring back Michael Jordan. As a GM it's his job to get creative and try to fill in the holes. Longley, though he knew how to do his job, was infinitely replaceable. I mean, you could get Oliver Miller here on the minimum and he'll provide more interior defense, rebounding, and passing. Or if you're such a sleuth take a flyer on recently released hustle player like Scott Pollard or a young guy that can rebound like Jamie Feick. Not sure what kind of cap space we actually had, but Dino Radja was in Europe and could have been a Rodman replacement or supplement. Maybe give Carl Herrara, who knows what it takes to win a championship, some bench minutes. Plus if Longley's trade value was a first-round pick, then you have to assume he could have brought us back an actual rotation player from a different team.

Kerr's getting old and expensive? Sign Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf for the minimum. Or Bring back BJ Armstrong cheaply. Or sign a ring chaser like Terry Porter. Or a guy who just played well against you in the playoffs like Sherman Douglas. Need some depth? Dominique Wilkins just averaged 18 ppg the year before and is in Italy looking to get back in the NBA. Blue Edwards is desperately looking to get on a contender. Convince Mario Ellie that the Bulls are a better place to spend your twilight years than San Antonio.

There were ways to get replacements here. Ultimately it may not have worked, but we could've given Jordan a chance to get the next batch of guys ready.

Fantastic post

[Big Pippen]

Regarding Krause's last memoir entry from KC ... what a load of BS to make Rodman and Longley's status such a big focal point of why you couldn't bring back Michael Jordan. As a GM it's his job to get creative and try to fill in the holes. Longley, though he knew how to do his job, was infinitely replaceable. I mean, you could get Oliver Miller here on the minimum and he'll provide more interior defense, rebounding, and passing. Or if you're such a sleuth take a flyer on recently released hustle player like Scott Pollard or a young guy that can rebound like Jamie Feick. Not sure what kind of cap space we actually had, but Dino Radja was in Europe and could have been a Rodman replacement or supplement. Maybe give Carl Herrara, who knows what it takes to win a championship, some bench minutes. Plus if Longley's trade value was a first-round pick, then you have to assume he could have brought us back an actual rotation player from a different team.

Kerr's getting old and expensive? Sign Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf for the minimum. Or Bring back BJ Armstrong cheaply. Or sign a ring chaser like Terry Porter. Or a guy who just played well against you in the playoffs like Sherman Douglas. Need some depth? Dominique Wilkins just averaged 18 ppg the year before and is in Italy looking to get back in the NBA. Blue Edwards is desperately looking to get on a contender. Convince Mario Ellie that the Bulls are a better place to spend your twilight years than San Antonio.

There were ways to get replacements here. Ultimately it may not have worked, but we could've given Jordan a chance to get the next batch of guys ready.

My opinion on blame of the break up definitely shifted to blame Reinsdorf more and everyone else much less. I always felt it was an issue between Jackson/Krause that was at the heart of it, but Jerry Reinsdorf, in his own words, with years to reflect, described it as "suicidal" to bring everyone back and discussing the expenses.

Jordan is probably responsible for a good half a billion to one billion in extra profits for Reinsdorf over the course of the franchise. There was nothing suicidal here, you weren't going out of business or threatening to go out of business. You weren't going to lose money for a year or anything. You were just going to make a little less. For a guy who basically got 200x growth on his investment, Reinsdorf sure is a greedy SOB.

I think that's the most disturbing thing for die hard fans to understand right now and just as damning, if not more so, than Krause's "I don't care if you go 82-0 you won't come back" quote.

I think Krause and JR got to the point where they really did believe so strongly in their executive and admin powers that the most sensible and lucrative thing they could do was tank for 2-3 years and then build another dynasty. Obviously that was wrong, and obviously their legacies and their fans paid the price for their hubris.

[Big Pippen]

double post, damn you iphone.

loved the ECF drama in episode 9 and the Utah stuff in episode 10. Wish there was more of that stuff. We already knew about the dream team, etc