The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall.

[StunnerKO]

I think it might have been less judged if we had a March madness his play was improving pre Rona

[cjbulls]

Which teams traded down? If it was so easy and efficacious it would have been done. Nobody wanted to trade up. Because the draft was as homogeneous as you could imagine a draft to be. Singling out the Bulls, well it’s confusing.

If you weren't attached to Williams, it seems highly likely you could have traded down to 7 with Detroit and either gotten #16 or maybe a pick next year. They reportedly desperately wanted Williams. Of course, then you aren't getting your guy. However, if you thought this whole thing is a crap shoot and I'd rather have 2 than 1 then I think that deal was probably on the table.

The reason detroit was trying to trade up (when 7/16) was offered, it was to move up to 3 above the bulls. Why would they offer it to the bulls if they knew the bulls weren't going to grab PWill

I’ll skip over your hypo and focus on the two levels of decision making to grade AK on.

Level 1 is placing Patrick Williams 4th. I think most people are fine giving AK that benefit of the doubt here (I’m not personally). Now you are taking him, but by luck other teams want him desperately and are willing to offer multiple picks in exchange. This is the Level 2 decision.

AK likes him best of the bunch but should see a good opportunity for 7/16 where he can get a similarly rated player plus another decent pick. Apparently, AK rated Williams significantly higher than the other guys such that he didn’t want two cracks at it instead of one.

So people don’t like that second decision of over valuing the one guy over the trade down.

[sco]

Other than the relief I found in not drafting Deni, I was pretty happy that we didn't trade up for Ball. I'd have been ok trading up for Edwards or Wiseman, but IMO, neither is high confidence pick to become an allstar.

[othawhitemeat]

Watch on YouTube

It's a pickup game against NBA players but he looks like a 3 here.

Hassan Whiteside, DJ Wilson (who Pat decided to abuse, and Bruno), Trae Young, Dinwiddie, Diallo

Just a pickup game, but it is nice seeing that skill. Being honest, I was not thrilled with this pick originally from how he performed at FSU, but definitely see the potential and hearing the little things. Hopefully, Williams will answer all those naysayers - just need to see him play with some confidence. Maybe he can be the surprise pick like a Pippen (not saying he will be nearly as good, but just someone that surprised everyone and will be good - can you imagine if Pippen came out of Central Arkansas and was drafted top 5 in today's social media era). If he maxes out, I see some taller Jimmy Butler to his game. A Jimmy Butler esque player combined with Coby, Zach, Lauri if used right, and Carter is a nice young core.

As a lifelong Bulls fan, most excited about this team in a long time due to leadership of FO and Donovan. Don't know enough about FO to make a determination, but I believe Donovan will have this team playing to max capabilities. I don't know if this will be a playoff team, but finally just excited to see some direction. I'm sure we will see some turnover after this year, but it is nice to see we are going a path and will have a lot of cap space next year to do some things.

[gardenofsound]

IDK man in that video the narrator said something like Patrick Williams has "Derrick Rose quickness."

What?

I'm not sure I've seen anyone except Iverson, maybe, with D-Rose quickness. Certainly not at 6'8". That's the type of hyperbole that ruins credibility.

[othawhitemeat]

Watch on YouTube

It's a pickup game against NBA players but he looks like a 3 here.

Hassan Whiteside, DJ Wilson (who Pat decided to abuse, and Bruno), Trae Young, Dinwiddie, Diallo

I’m trying to remind myself that everyone except Denzel looks great in pickup basketball but it’s hard not to be excited by those highlights. One thing is clear: although he’s one of the youngest players in the draft he’s not raw in a Tyrus Thomas or Tyson Chandler type of way. PW’s offensive game is actually pretty polished and dare I say even a little old school with the mid-range game.

LOL, leave Denzel alone... I do agree it is just pickup, but you see a lot of skill in that pickup. Hopefully, he will flash some of it in real games.

[othawhitemeat]

Other than the relief I found in not drafting Deni, I was pretty happy that we didn't trade up for Ball. I'd have been ok trading up for Edwards or Wiseman, but IMO, neither is high confidence pick to become an allstar.

I'm not high on Edwards or Ball. Edwards does not seem to have that mentality to be great and Ball carries too much baggage for me. Wiseman, I am high on and think he will flourish with the right team and that is Golden State. I actually liked the Jalen Smith pick at 10 and think he will be better than folks think.

[kodo]

I'm not sold on Pwill, but I will say that he was the sort of high risk/high reward guy I wanted the Bulls to get instead of Deni. I think my reaction when the draft was made was "Not Deni, Not Deni, Not Deni...ahhh".

Seems like 8 other teams also had that reaction.

I think I'm most surprised that Haliburton & Kira dropped as far as they did.

[TheFinishSniper]

I'm not sold on Pwill, but I will say that he was the sort of high risk/high reward guy I wanted the Bulls to get instead of Deni. I think my reaction when the draft was made was "Not Deni, Not Deni, Not Deni...ahhh".

Seems like 8 other teams also had that reaction.

I think I'm most surprised that Haliburton & Kira dropped as far as they did.

Not suprised about Haliburton, but I expected Kira to go higher than he gone. I know he wasnt mocked like top 8 pick but still felt he gone bit lower than prospect of his calibre goes specially in weak class. Good shooter with slasher ability, great athlete, ballhandler. As his weakness it was mentioned he didnt finish at the rim with authority but choose to do layup instead and being kind on light side weight size. I mean that's kind of atrocious evaluation what makes prospect good or bad. When you look what kind of holes other prospects had it's really numbing. I dont know if he during workouts jump out the gym or his mental side to be pro is lacking but basketball talent is certainly there.

[cjbulls]

I'm not sold on Pwill, but I will say that he was the sort of high risk/high reward guy I wanted the Bulls to get instead of Deni. I think my reaction when the draft was made was "Not Deni, Not Deni, Not Deni...ahhh".

Seems like 8 other teams also had that reaction.

I think I'm most surprised that Haliburton & Kira dropped as far as they did.

Not suprised about Haliburton, but I expected Kira to go higher than he gone. I know he wasnt mocked like top 8 pick but still felt he gone bit lower than prospect of his calibre goes specially in weak class. Good shooter with slasher ability, great athlete, ballhandler. As his weakness it was mentioned he didnt finish at the rim with authority but choose to do layup instead and being kind on light side weight size. I mean that's kind of atrocious evaluation what makes prospect good or bad. When you look what kind of holes other prospects had it's really numbing. I dont know if he during workouts jump out the gym or his mental side to be pro is lacking but basketball talent is certainly there.

It was all about his size. I know people posted unofficial measurement that were bigger, but he skipped the official ones. If he’s roughly the same size as Trae, then he needs truly elite scoring to overcome the defensive liability and lack of playmaking (compared to Trae).

Him and Lonzo are potentially a great fit though. Hopefully he gets a good opportunity to shine but they have like 9 point guards down there now.

[TheFinishSniper]

Was Patrick Williams on draft combine? I dont see him or at least I cant find his official measurements.

[cjbulls]

Was Patrick Williams on draft combine? I dont see him or at least I cant find his official measurements.

No all of the projected lottery guys skipped it.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro/

[PaKii94]

If you weren't attached to Williams, it seems highly likely you could have traded down to 7 with Detroit and either gotten #16 or maybe a pick next year. They reportedly desperately wanted Williams. Of course, then you aren't getting your guy. However, if you thought this whole thing is a crap shoot and I'd rather have 2 than 1 then I think that deal was probably on the table.

The reason detroit was trying to trade up (when 7/16) was offered, it was to move up to 3 above the bulls. Why would they offer it to the bulls if they knew the bulls weren't going to grab PWill

I’ll skip over your hypo and focus on the two levels of decision making to grade AK on.

Level 1 is placing Patrick Williams 4th. I think most people are fine giving AK that benefit of the doubt here (I’m not personally). Now you are taking him, but by luck other teams want him desperately and are willing to offer multiple picks in exchange. This is the Level 2 decision.

AK likes him best of the bunch but should see a good opportunity for 7/16 where he can get a similarly rated player plus another decent pick. Apparently, AK rated Williams significantly higher than the other guys such that he didn’t want two cracks at it instead of one.

So people don’t like that second decision of over valuing the one guy over the trade down.

I understand the reasoning for trading down... I was advocating for it. I'm just saying there wasn't a good opportunity. You keep bringing up detroit's picks but the only reason to move up for them was to get ahead of us to take PWILL. As soon as they get the indication you aren't selecting PWILL then there is no reason to trade up.

Maybe there were other opportunities but would you then trade down into the teens? Idk. AK didn't seem like it was worth while and we didn't get rumors for other trade downs. Only the detroit trade up rumor to get above us

[dougthonus]

I understand the reasoning for trading down... I was advocating for it. I'm just saying there wasn't a good opportunity. You keep bringing up detroit's picks but the only reason to move up for them was to get ahead of us to take PWILL. As soon as they get the indication you aren't selecting PWILL then there is no reason to trade up.

Well we were taking Williams. If we were willing to trade down it doesn't mean we won't take Williams, it means we are willing to take someone else for enough compensation. So the question is do we feel Williams is worth more than the other two guys we could have had. AK says no. Most other people say yes. Most other people say Williams was not even the right guy to take at #4.

[MGB8]

The reason detroit was trying to trade up (when 7/16) was offered, it was to move up to 3 above the bulls. Why would they offer it to the bulls if they knew the bulls weren't going to grab PWill

I’ll skip over your hypo and focus on the two levels of decision making to grade AK on.

Level 1 is placing Patrick Williams 4th. I think most people are fine giving AK that benefit of the doubt here (I’m not personally). Now you are taking him, but by luck other teams want him desperately and are willing to offer multiple picks in exchange. This is the Level 2 decision.

AK likes him best of the bunch but should see a good opportunity for 7/16 where he can get a similarly rated player plus another decent pick. Apparently, AK rated Williams significantly higher than the other guys such that he didn’t want two cracks at it instead of one.

So people don’t like that second decision of over valuing the one guy over the trade down.

I understand the reasoning for trading down... I was advocating for it. I'm just saying there wasn't a good opportunity. You keep bringing up detroit's picks but the only reason to move up for them was to get ahead of us to take PWILL. As soon as they get the indication you aren't selecting PWILL then there is no reason to trade up.

Maybe there were other opportunities but would you then trade down into the teens? Idk. AK didn't seem like it was worth while and we didn't get rumors for other trade downs. Only the detroit trade up rumor to get above us

Eh, I'm not sure that logic follows. Detroit could trade up to take P-Will known that the Bulls will take him if they don't do the trade - but that the Bulls value 7+16 more than P-Will. Basically, they'd make the decision that cjbulls is criticizing AK for making.

As to that, however, I'd urge cjbulls to give a little bit of benefit of the doubt to AK.

First, they haven't burned through that doubt like GarPax did at the point of say, McDermott.

Second, this was a rough draft, where you had some serious negative opinions on Hayes, Deni, Vassell, Hali, much less the guys there at 17 (S.Bey - questions about athleticism; Josh Green - question about whether can be anything more than a 3&D player where shooting not prolific; Poku; Maxey and poor shooting percentage plus translation questions; McDaniels various issues, Terry, who fell out of first, and his strength / translation issues + poor ass/to rate).

Third, kind of merging the first two points, this wasn't a McDermott case - where the limitations were clear as day and the depth of the draft meant taking two shots would be the undeniably better option. The big reason is because Pat Williams has those flashes where he looks like almost a completely different player from what you usually see on the youtubes / what's reflected in the more in depth scouting reports. Williams has upside that McDermott, despite great college production, simply didn't have. There's a lot of reason to believe that William's 3 point shot will develop (FTs, prior 3 pt shooting in HS all-star games, etc.). The real questions surround whether the "heavy feet" and "hip stiffness" that he looked like he had as a college freshmen are something that can be eliminated with a combination of coaching (body position, core strength) and body conditioning (core strength, avoiding bulk). If those two negative marks are gone - and they certainly don't look like issues in the pickup videos - now you have a much more mobile guy who isn't just a small-ball 4, but a potential "big 3" with a lot of gifts. Not a Lebron with that explosive first step and vision, or even a Zion (a tier down from Lebron), but only a tier down from that.

Clearly, that's what AK sees. Probably what Detroit saw if they were willing to send 7+16 up for him. And you have to give AK a little bit of rope to see if that take is right.

[chefo]

I'm really excited about the pick all of a sudden... and it has a lot to do with his shooting motion when being guarded and the fact that it looks very smooth, high release and effortless. Many players can't shoot these shots when practicing alone in the gym, let alone with anybody near them, let alone tall NBA players.

He looks like a taller, more athletic Joe Johnson in that video.

Then again, most of us have kind of forgotten, but the reason we went all-in on Dougie was because he kicked butt on the USA select team and everybody present (including Thibs) thought him some combo of Korver with a post game.

So, great to see how clean the ball goes in, the incredibly confidence to shoot one-handed jumpers from deep (only on my hottest days would I shoot like that, and only in shootaround while he was swishing them with people in his face), but I'll hold my excitement for the season. In that video, BTW, he looks like his HS self--in other words, doing just enough to dominate without going 100 mph to do it.

[Evil_Headband]

I understand the reasoning for trading down... I was advocating for it. I'm just saying there wasn't a good opportunity. You keep bringing up detroit's picks but the only reason to move up for them was to get ahead of us to take PWILL. As soon as they get the indication you aren't selecting PWILL then there is no reason to trade up.

Well we were taking Williams. If we were willing to trade down it doesn't mean we won't take Williams, it means we are willing to take someone else for enough compensation. So the question is do we feel Williams is worth more than the other two guys we could have had. AK says no. Most other people say yes. Most other people say Williams was not even the right guy to take at #4.

I suspect no matter which player was selected at 4, "most people" would have preferred to trade down and "most people" would have preferred they take someone else.

Of course, that doesn't make the answers right or wrong, just something that I think is interesting to consider.

[23-7]

Reminder these guys are 3.5 years apart.
1 inch apart
Obi 5 lbs less
With 2-3 wingspan advantage, obi

Read on Twitter

?s=09

[Leslie Forman]

Then again, most of us have kind of forgotten, but the reason we went all-in on Dougie was because he kicked butt on the USA select team and everybody present (including Thibs) thought him some combo of Korver with a post game.

He was already drafted then. And literally nobody here knows how he looked in that setting.

This guy is the complete opposite of Doug. Barely any college resume to speak of but apparently wowing people in workouts. Doug was nothing but gaudy college numbers.

[PaKii94]

I understand the reasoning for trading down... I was advocating for it. I'm just saying there wasn't a good opportunity. You keep bringing up detroit's picks but the only reason to move up for them was to get ahead of us to take PWILL. As soon as they get the indication you aren't selecting PWILL then there is no reason to trade up.

Well we were taking Williams. If we were willing to trade down it doesn't mean we won't take Williams, it means we are willing to take someone else for enough compensation. So the question is do we feel Williams is worth more than the other two guys we could have had. AK says no. Most other people say yes. Most other people say Williams was not even the right guy to take at #4.

Exactly. So if we were set on PWill then there was no opportunity to trade down. 5-6 weren't interested. PWill was gone at 7.

I agree with everything you said. My stance is that if they HAD to select PWill, they had to select him at 4.