Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[jnrjr79]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

That is a ridiculous characterization of what I said. To act like NBA players don't become malcontents over contracts seems unhinged to me.

But if he gets 4/100 and you think that is fair we are pretty much on the same page.

Players become malcontents when they want a contract and a team won't offer one, but I don't think I've seen it when some guy signs a 4-5 year deal and then is immediately angry about it.

[Stratmaster]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

That is a ridiculous characterization of what I said. To act like NBA players don't become malcontents over contracts seems unhinged to me.

But if he gets 4/100 and you think that is fair we are pretty much on the same page.

Players become malcontents when they want a contract and a team won't offer one, but I don't think I've seen it when some guy signs a 4-5 year deal and then is immediately angry about it.

And as a couple have stated, I think maybe even you, the current situation is pretty much unprecedented. The rules have changed. There is maybe 1 team in the league who could make a push for Giddey other than the Bulls. Have you ever seen a situation where a player was forced to take 33% less than his counterparts with the same or less credentials and upside because no one in the league has money to spend? Again. It has already been reported that Giddey is frustrated. He isn't showing up for summer league. The negotiations are described as "contentious". You say he isn't, and they aren't based on what?

[cocktailswith_2short]

Sounds like we're going to get one year out of him. A wasted year because he will be the show at the expense of others .

[Indomitable]

That is a ridiculous characterization of what I said. To act like NBA players don't become malcontents over contracts seems unhinged to me.

But if he gets 4/100 and you think that is fair we are pretty much on the same page.

Players become malcontents when they want a contract and a team won't offer one, but I don't think I've seen it when some guy signs a 4-5 year deal and then is immediately angry about it.

And as a couple have stated, I think maybe even you, the current situation is pretty much unprecedented. The rules have changed. There is maybe 1 team in the league who could make a push for Giddey other than the Bulls. Have you ever seen a situation where a player was forced to take 33% less than his counterparts with the same or less credentials and upside because no one in the league has money to spend? Again. It has already been reported that Giddey is frustrated. He isn't showing up for summer league. The negotiations are described as "contentious". You say he isn't, and they aren't based on what?

He should be mad at himself. If he came through vs Dallas 2 years ago. He would be able to write his own check.

[nomorezorro]

the athletic did a poll of front office personnel who basically all pegged his value between $20-25m AAV, and the only two responses outside of that range came in even lower

The Athletic recently polled 16 people who work in NBA front offices (including no one from Giddey’s incumbent Chicago Bulls), asking what they would deem a “fair” contract for [Giddey.] ...

Fourteen of the 16 participants proposed an average annual salary between $20 million and $25 million. (His mean average yearly value in the poll came to $22.3 million a year.) One executive pinned him as an $18 million player. Another, a front-office staffer who admitted he would be far lower than the consensus because he wasn’t a fan of Giddey’s game, suggested $50 million over four years, $12.5 million a year.

4y/$90m seems about right to me

[Chi town]

the athletic did a poll of front office personnel who basically all pegged his value between $20-25m AAV, and the only two responses outside of that range came in even lower

The Athletic recently polled 16 people who work in NBA front offices (including no one from Giddey’s incumbent Chicago Bulls), asking what they would deem a “fair” contract for [Giddey.] ...

Fourteen of the 16 participants proposed an average annual salary between $20 million and $25 million. (His mean average yearly value in the poll came to $22.3 million a year.) One executive pinned him as an $18 million player. Another, a front-office staffer who admitted he would be far lower than the consensus because he wasn’t a fan of Giddey’s game, suggested $50 million over four years, $12.5 million a year.

4y/$90m seems about right to me

I will be surprised if Giddey goes lower than 25M.

Great info though. Big sample size helps with bias but we still can’t weigh out motives in their number.

[MGB8]

That is a ridiculous characterization of what I said. To act like NBA players don't become malcontents over contracts seems unhinged to me.

But if he gets 4/100 and you think that is fair we are pretty much on the same page.

Players become malcontents when they want a contract and a team won't offer one, but I don't think I've seen it when some guy signs a 4-5 year deal and then is immediately angry about it.

And as a couple have stated, I think maybe even you, the current situation is pretty much unprecedented. The rules have changed. There is maybe 1 team in the league who could make a push for Giddey other than the Bulls. Have you ever seen a situation where a player was forced to take 33% less than his counterparts with the same or less credentials and upside because no one in the league has money to spend? Again. It has already been reported that Giddey is frustrated. He isn't showing up for summer league. The negotiations are described as "contentious". You say he isn't, and they aren't based on what?

I would buy this more if there weren't 3 other RFAs in the same boat (Kuminga, Cam Thomas, Grimes). Thomas MASSIVELY out produced Giddey over the entirety of the season.

Grimes put up 23/5/5 post ASG last year - a similar surge to Giddey (21/11/9) - particularly considering that Grimes is a better defender.

Kuminga has the highest athletic upside of the 4.

If it were only Giddey, then the impact of the 2nd apron as compared to prior comps around his 14.5/8/7 over the year (who do all play better D, often much better D)... might sting more. But given the situation, meh.

[jnrjr79]

That is a ridiculous characterization of what I said. To act like NBA players don't become malcontents over contracts seems unhinged to me.

But if he gets 4/100 and you think that is fair we are pretty much on the same page.

Players become malcontents when they want a contract and a team won't offer one, but I don't think I've seen it when some guy signs a 4-5 year deal and then is immediately angry about it.

And as a couple have stated, I think maybe even you, the current situation is pretty much unprecedented. The rules have changed. There is maybe 1 team in the league who could make a push for Giddey other than the Bulls. Have you ever seen a situation where a player was forced to take 33% less than his counterparts with the same or less credentials and upside because no one in the league has money to spend? Again. It has already been reported that Giddey is frustrated. He isn't showing up for summer league. The negotiations are described as "contentious". You say he isn't, and they aren't based on what?

I think you're misunderstanding me. There have been conflicting reports about whether negotiations have been contentious or not, but I wasn't suggesting it's impossible they are. Obviously Giddey could be frustrated right now, seeing as he has not come to terms on a deal. The thing I was pushing back on was your suggestion that Giddey might sign a 4-year deal, but be so mad about his salary, that he asks out in year 1. That scenario to me seems so unlikely that I would not bother worrying about it.

[sco]

Players become malcontents when they want a contract and a team won't offer one, but I don't think I've seen it when some guy signs a 4-5 year deal and then is immediately angry about it.

And as a couple have stated, I think maybe even you, the current situation is pretty much unprecedented. The rules have changed. There is maybe 1 team in the league who could make a push for Giddey other than the Bulls. Have you ever seen a situation where a player was forced to take 33% less than his counterparts with the same or less credentials and upside because no one in the league has money to spend? Again. It has already been reported that Giddey is frustrated. He isn't showing up for summer league. The negotiations are described as "contentious". You say he isn't, and they aren't based on what?

I would buy this more if there weren't 3 other RFAs in the same boat (Kuminga, Cam Thomas, Grimes). Thomas MASSIVELY out produced Giddey over the entirety of the season.

Grimes put up 23/5/5 post ASG last year - a similar surge to Giddey (21/11/9) - particularly considering that Grimes is a better defender.

Kuminga has the highest athletic upside of the 4.

If it were only Giddey, then the impact of the 2nd apron as compared to prior comps around his 14.5/8/7 over the year (who do all play better D, often much better D)... might sting more. But given the situation, meh.

Since I researched this earlier and was surprised at the delta pre-post ASG for Giddey:

PRE ASG: 12.2ppg 7.1rbs 6.4ast 34% 3pt% 1.7stocks
POST ASG: 21.2ppg 10.7rbs 9.3ast 46% 3pt% 2.3stocks

Again, it's easy to say a trajectory change is sustainable, but that delta is enormous.

[Red8911]

When the Bulls are paying P Will 18 mil a year, how the hell would they think Giddey would accept 20 mil ? He’s not only much better than P Will but also younger.

Got to look at Giddeys point of view as well. They really fkd up that P Will contract for a lot of reasons.

Unbelievable how PWill got so much respect and was overpaid as a RFA from day 1. The guy never deserved it.Yet they decide to play games with Giddey instead who is your top 2 player and is supposed to be a big part moving forward.

[jnrjr79]

When the Bulls are paying P Will 18 mil a year, how the hell would they think Giddey would accept 20 mil ? He’s not only much better than P Will but also younger.

Got to look at Giddeys point of view as well. They really fkd up that P Will contract for a lot of reasons.

Unbelievable how PWill got so much respect and was overpaid as a RFA from day 1. The guy never deserved it.Yet they decide to play games with Giddey instead who is your top 2 player and is supposed to be a big part moving forward.

I am just not sympathetic to this line of argument, though you see it a lot on the board.

"The Bulls made a terrible financial decision, and therefore must do so again." No thanks.

[Dan Z]

I'm sure this has been discussed here many times, but thought I'd share it because it's on wiretap.

Josh Giddey, Bulls Approximately $10M Per Year Apart On Negotiations:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281525/Josh-Giddey-Bulls-Approximately-$10M-Per-Year-Apart-On-Negotiations

“I think from the 50 games at the start of the season, it was two completely different players, and not only talking statistically,’’ Giddey said. ‘‘It was a confidence level, aggression level, effort level. You asked me to sell myself, I’d say the second half of the year is the player who I am. The first half was a completely different guy. Confidence was down, aggression down. Probably was down trying to fit in too much.”

[Muzbar]

I'm sure this has been discussed here many times, but thought I'd share it because it's on wiretap.

Josh Giddey, Bulls Approximately $10M Per Year Apart On Negotiations:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281525/Josh-Giddey-Bulls-Approximately-$10M-Per-Year-Apart-On-Negotiations

“I think from the 50 games at the start of the season, it was two completely different players, and not only talking statistically,’’ Giddey said. ‘‘It was a confidence level, aggression level, effort level. You asked me to sell myself, I’d say the second half of the year is the player who I am. The first half was a completely different guy. Confidence was down, aggression down. Probably was down trying to fit in too much.”

Obviously everyone hopes 2nd half Giddey is the 'real' Giddey, but they shouldn't take the gamble that that is the case, and they aren't, which is great.

The longer this goes on, the more I think they'll meet in the middle on a shorter term deal. Which I'd be fine with.

[Dan Z]

I'm sure this has been discussed here many times, but thought I'd share it because it's on wiretap.

Josh Giddey, Bulls Approximately $10M Per Year Apart On Negotiations:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281525/Josh-Giddey-Bulls-Approximately-$10M-Per-Year-Apart-On-Negotiations

“I think from the 50 games at the start of the season, it was two completely different players, and not only talking statistically,’’ Giddey said. ‘‘It was a confidence level, aggression level, effort level. You asked me to sell myself, I’d say the second half of the year is the player who I am. The first half was a completely different guy. Confidence was down, aggression down. Probably was down trying to fit in too much.”

Obviously everyone hopes 2nd half Giddey is the 'real' Giddey, but they shouldn't take the gamble that that is the case, and they aren't, which is great.

The longer this goes on, the more I think they'll meet in the middle on a shorter term deal. Which I'd be fine with.

I agree. He could take the qualifying offer, but why do that? Take a short deal with a player option, get generational wealth and get another contract while he's still in his 20s.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

To me there's no question 2nd half Giddey is the real one. Zach was in everyone's way.

[Muzbar]

I'm sure this has been discussed here many times, but thought I'd share it because it's on wiretap.

Josh Giddey, Bulls Approximately $10M Per Year Apart On Negotiations:

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281525/Josh-Giddey-Bulls-Approximately-$10M-Per-Year-Apart-On-Negotiations

Obviously everyone hopes 2nd half Giddey is the 'real' Giddey, but they shouldn't take the gamble that that is the case, and they aren't, which is great.

The longer this goes on, the more I think they'll meet in the middle on a shorter term deal. Which I'd be fine with.

I agree. He could take the qualifying offer, but why do that? Take a short deal with a player option, get generational wealth and get another contract while he's still in his 20s.

Yeah, I could definitely see a 2+1 being done for around 24m per.

Whilst I really like Giddey, I'm sceptical of building 'around him', I still think the Bulls should try and bottom out this season and try and get a high pick in this draft. It's meant to be VERY good.

[GoBlue72391]

I think we learned that already, that people working professionaly in prosports leagues ala NBA, NHL, NFL - many many times doesnt mean they are smarter than us normies regarding players abilities, contract normality etc.. they are just connected and involved

This is true for all walks of life.

[GoBlue72391]

How about this? Getting a little tired of the clique system running around in here. Updating my friend/foe list in a little while. Anybody who's tired of the moaning, thinks my ideas are deranged, etc, let's block each other. You don't have to see mine, I don't have to see yours. Open invitation. Plenty of guys in here we can debate civilly, some it seems we can't. Don't need the stress in my life, ready to smack some people in their mouths for how they're talking. No grief, no argument, we talk and share with other people.

How sensitive are you? This is a discussion board where people discuss things. There will be agreements, there will be disagreements. Thus is the nature of discussion.

Not everyone is going to be on your side, and they don't have to be. I'd hate this place if everyone had the same views as me.

I haven't really been following the Giddey situation since like the first week or so of free agency so maybe I missed something in this thread, but you're the only one I'm seeing getting in your feelings over this ultimately meaningless discussion.

Talking about wanting to hit people in the mouth over a discussion about Giddey's contract? Maybe you should take a break and go enjoy the summer.

[Dez]

Players become malcontents when they want a contract and a team won't offer one, but I don't think I've seen it when some guy signs a 4-5 year deal and then is immediately angry about it.

And as a couple have stated, I think maybe even you, the current situation is pretty much unprecedented. The rules have changed. There is maybe 1 team in the league who could make a push for Giddey other than the Bulls. Have you ever seen a situation where a player was forced to take 33% less than his counterparts with the same or less credentials and upside because no one in the league has money to spend? Again. It has already been reported that Giddey is frustrated. He isn't showing up for summer league. The negotiations are described as "contentious". You say he isn't, and they aren't based on what?

He should be mad at himself. If he came through vs Dallas 2 years ago. He would be able to write his own check.

Yes if that 19/20 year old was perfect in his first real playoff run.

[Dan Z]

Obviously everyone hopes 2nd half Giddey is the 'real' Giddey, but they shouldn't take the gamble that that is the case, and they aren't, which is great.

The longer this goes on, the more I think they'll meet in the middle on a shorter term deal. Which I'd be fine with.

I agree. He could take the qualifying offer, but why do that? Take a short deal with a player option, get generational wealth and get another contract while he's still in his 20s.

Yeah, I could definitely see a 2+1 being done for around 24m per.

Whilst I really like Giddey, I'm sceptical of building 'around him', I still think the Bulls should try and bottom out this season and try and get a high pick in this draft. It's meant to be VERY good.

I agree with you, but don't think the Bulls will bottom out. AK has basically said that he never wants to do that and his time here has proven that. Instead I could see the team fighting for the play-in or first round.

It's frustrating because the draft is how they can find top level talent. Even a team like OKC spent two years tanking when they already had SGA. It's how they got Jalen Williams and Chet (and ultimately a championship).

Bottoming out would mean an investment in the teams future, which is what the Bulls should be thinking about.

Giddey at 24 million would be a good deal. After that...what about Coby? Let him play the season out and go from there? Or sign him to an extension soon?