Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[Rerisen]

Derrick Rose just a few weeks ago, "I'm not afraid to fail." The fear angle does not sit right with me, or what I know about Derrick.

If no one was telling him and advising him to sit, for his own good (as they see it), I firmly believe he would be out there left to his own devices.

This is a guy that did this in his first ever playoff game, against the defending champion Celtics. This is a player who said, "Why not me?" concerning being the youngest MVP ever. I don't see a guy easily afraid of on court challenges.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOF46nS4Fo[/youtube]

If Rose is afraid of something, its of going against or disobeying someone he has believed has had his best interests in mind his whole life.

[DaMayor73]

You stated several pages back that Rose was still injured, which is just false on nearly all accounts, and now you keep going on about how huge the mental aspect of coming back from an injury is. Yes, it is a huge factor, but it isn't as if Rose has just been cleared to play. He has been cleared for a while. At what point is he going to be mentally ready if the requirement for that is getting on the court, something he refuses to do? At what point do you draw a line? If Derrick Rose sits out next year because he isn't mentally ready, what would be your argument then?

Most people here are going off a certain time limit that has been set for this type of injury, and no other player has taken this long to come back from an ACL injury. Is that not out of the norm? And that doesn't even take into account the Reggie Rose comments, PR games being played etc. I'm just talking about a player that has been cleared to play, even before these "rough" playoffs started (could've gotten 10 or so games in against weaker competition before the playoffs. and let's not pretend the Nets are a physical team), and has refused to play nearly two months after said clearance. There have been no reported setbacks either.

And again, I say, what if DRose is the outlier?

[babblin-on]

First you give us a link wherein doctors say that 'MVP-level superstars' call for radically different treatment and rehabs than other players.

I will be the first to admit there are none.

Now your turn. Thanks.

Nope, I'm not gonna go fishing for proof of your mythical 'superstar' medical timeline. You're the one who claims that it exists, the burden of proof is on you to find the links.

[DaMayor73]

MVP-level stars with the game and athletism of Rose need to have and should have as much time needed to get mentally/pphysically healthy. Why? To be able to shoulder the HUGE burden he has on this team. And it really is as simple as that. Thanks.

I'm not sure what you're thanking me for.

Your post has exactly zero logical basis or support. You just conclude that superstars should be treated differently. What you can't do, because obviously it would be absurd to attempt, is argue that Derrick, because he is a superstar, heals differently than mere mortals.

So I'll take your post as a concession that you can't support your argument. And that has been quite clear over the course of the thread.

And again, you discount mental health here. But not surprising. Thanks.

[DaMayor73]

So Rose has PTSD now?

Duh!!!!! Absolutely. His career flashed before his eyes. Hundreads of millions of dollars lost. So he wants to make damned sure he is right before he puts it all on the line again. As it should be.

Wow, I didn't realize you were a psychiatrist and had examined Rose. This changes everything.

Occams razor. Instead of believing all of the conspiracy nonsense and the "Rose is a wuss" garbage, I choose to believe the likeliest option: Rose needs more time to get his mental health in line with his physical health. Simple.

[DaMayor73]

Yes, your post demonstrates you do in fact need to consult the dictionary.

Arbitrary - 1.Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

So if there is a system out there, a codified system mind you, that has a specific timeframe for an elite athlete to get back to mental and physical health, with no deviation, please feel free to share. Thanks.

[Rerisen]

Well said, Wilbon.

Wilbon is not credible on this, he is friends with the Rose family, his take is about as obvious as the former players that get so uselessly quoted.

Even on non Rose Bulls issues, Wilbon has always been terrible on the Bulls, giving his self conscious 'second city complex' answers whenever he talks about them, going overboard to try and maintain credibility and not appear homerish, and in the process, losing it.

[Midway Bully]

Need I go get my Webster's dictionary and provide you the definition of arbitrary? A year is 365 days. Not arbitrary. A ton is 2,000lbs. Not arbitrary. The time it takes mentally and physically from a torn ACL. Arbitrary. Thanks.

He has been cleared physically. Mentally, he isn't cleared. You stated a while back that until Derrick Rose is comfortable on an NBA court, he shouldn't play, which is a bizarre statement considering the only way to get comfortable on an NBA court is by playing in NBA games.

There is no logicality in what you are saying. If your best defense of Rose is using an arbitrary time limit set by the player himself, and catered to your standards, then it is impossible to argue.

[jnrjr79]

MVP-level stars with the game and athletism of Rose need to have and should have as much time needed to get mentally/pphysically healthy. Why? To be able to shoulder the HUGE burden he has on this team. And it really is as simple as that. Thanks.

I'm not sure what you're thanking me for.

Your post has exactly zero logical basis or support. You just conclude that superstars should be treated differently. What you can't do, because obviously it would be absurd to attempt, is argue that Derrick, because he is a superstar, heals differently than mere mortals.

So I'll take your post as a concession that you can't support your argument. And that has been quite clear over the course of the thread.

And again, you discount mental health here. But not surprising. Thanks.

Sorry. I didn't realize superstars are mentally weaker. While counterintuitive, I'm sure you have support for this.

[AirP.]

Sigh...if only having confidence after a career-threatening injury was this easy. Rose's mental health in this recovery process is being done a huge disservice by you and most others here.

Yeah I know, I had my arm pulled out of the socket which required shoulder reconstruction and 10 year later I had my achilies snap in half, i probably have no idea what it's like.

Yeah, and I have been shot at in combat and had mortars explode around me.....think it took me some time to get over that and get back out there and do my job? Sure did. Some people never get over it. So again, everyone is different and everyone heeds their own timeline for health.

So you're ok if Rose never plays again?

So fearing for your life is the same as having part of your body break? Weird, I wouldn't of put those 2 things together. Wow, fearing your life ending and having a body part break are the same to you, incredible.

[jnrjr79]

Occams razor. Instead of believing all of the conspiracy nonsense and the "Rose is a wuss" garbage, I choose to believe the likeliest option: Rose needs more time to get his mental health in line with his physical health. Simple.

The likeliest option is he's sitting out for the very reasons that have been reported in the media and that his own brother publicly espoused. I can't even describe how much more likely that explanation is than friggin' PTSD.

[Spimothy Leary]

Sigh...if only having confidence after a career-threatening injury was this easy. Rose's mental health in this recovery process is being done a huge disservice by you and most others here.

Yeah I know, I had my arm pulled out of the socket which required shoulder reconstruction and 10 year later I had my achilies snap in half, i probably have no idea what it's like.

Yeah, and I have been shot at in combat and had mortars explode around me.....think it took me some time to get over that and get back out there and do my job? Sure did. Some people never get over it. So again, everyone is different and everyone heeds their own timeline for health.

i had a hangnail once... hurt like a bugger...

[DaMayor73]

Sorry. I didn't realize superstars are mentally weaker. While counterintuitive, I'm sure you have support for this.

And I didn't know superstars were supposed to heed some arbitrary notion of fans as to whether they are healthy or not. He is ready when he is ready. And again, Rose may be an outlier that needs more time to get his mind in line with his body. Why is that so terrible?

[jnrjr79]

Yes, your post demonstrates you do in fact need to consult the dictionary.

Arbitrary - 1.Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

So if there is a system out there, a codified system mind you, that has a specific timeframe for an elite athlete to get back to mental and physical health, with no deviation, please feel free to share. Thanks.

The definition does not contain the word "codified," but it is immensely entertaining that you immediately try to change the definition to suit your own purposes.

The recovery from ACL injury is based upon decades of expert experienced gained by physicians in performing the surgeries and overseeing the rehabilitation process. It is the very antithesis of "arbitrary."

Additionally, you throw in the whole "no deviation" caveat. Again, you need to move the goalposts in order to have some semblance of an argument. Of course, given that the time for recovery is expressed in ranges, some degree of deviation is already built into the expectation.

You're welcome.

[jnrjr79]

Sorry. I didn't realize superstars are mentally weaker. While counterintuitive, I'm sure you have support for this.

And I didn't know superstars were supposed to heed some arbitrary notion of fans as to whether they are healthy or not. He is ready when he is ready. And again, Rose may be an outlier that needs more time to get his mind in line with his body. Why is that so terrible?

Rose says he is healthy.

There is no information indicating Derrick Rose has been diagnosed with any mental health issue.

Derrick Rose's brother indicated he should not come back this year because the roster was not good enough.

This strikes me as uncomplicated.

[Rerisen]

I agree, it is mental. The knee itself is healed, and it is all about comfort level.
Only Rose can make that call.

It's mental because people have made him believe its mental. Likely convinced him to go against his own doctors and team's advice and timetable, because they 'know better'. Conclusions that Rose would likely not come to on his own.

It's mental because enablers have made it incredibly easy for him to take the route of fear and uncertainty.

I'm sure Derrick does have some natural apprehensions about coming back, any athlete would from such a major injury. But as Duck put it, even if its a combination of that apprehension being indulged under the weight of this year 'not being worth it' or with people around him saying you'll be safer waiting till next year, it all amounts to the same ill chosen result, which has hurt the team unnecessarily.

[DaMayor73]

So you're ok if Rose never plays again?

So fearing for your life is the same as having part of your body break? Weird, I wouldn't of put those 2 things together. Wow, fearing your life ending and having a body part break are the same to you, incredible.

Rose has been a ball player his entire life. That is who he is. So to have that threatened by a career-level injury is pretty life changing, no? So why wouldn't he make sure he was fully ready to go?

[panthermark]

And if Rose is the outlier here? Ever condier that? And if he is the outlier, guess what? He will come back when he is ready mentally and physically. As it should be, arbtrary timeline be damned.

This isn't a question.
Rose already is the outlier here.
Where everyone disgrees is on the the extent of time. If Rose is not back by the first game (and I do expect him back, but just for the sake of this excercise), you said (I think it was you) that you would be upset....why..because it is past your own particular timeline.

[DaMayor73]

The definition does not contain the word "codified," but it is immensely entertaining that you immediately try to change the definition to suit your own purposes.

The recovery from ACL injury is based upon decades of expert experienced gained by physicians in performing the surgeries and overseeing the rehabilitation process. It is the very antithesis of "arbitrary."

Additionally, you throw in the whole "no deviation" caveat. Again, you need to move the goalposts in order to have some semblance of an argument. Of course, given that the time for recovery is expressed in ranges, some degree of deviation is already built into the expectation.

You're welcome.

And again all of the evidence of physical recovery means nothing without taking into account the mental recovery as well. And that differs from patient to patient. Again, Rose may be an outlier. And that is just fine.

[AirP.]

So you're ok if Rose never plays again?

So fearing for your life is the same as having part of your body break? Weird, I wouldn't of put those 2 things together. Wow, fearing your life ending and having a body part break are the same to you, incredible.

Rose has been a ball player his entire life. That is who he is. So to have that threatened by a career-level injury is pretty life changing, no? So why wouldn't he make sure he was fully ready to go?

He did, that's why he went to multiple doctors.