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OT: COVID-19 thread #4

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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1221 » by Dresden » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:19 pm

coldfish wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
coldfish wrote:And 2/3 did not. If someone presents an opinion that is in the 1/3 area, they would be misleading the public if they didn't present it as such. It would almost be like they were . . .. lying.


Presumably, 1st world countries, such as this one, with the wealth and distribution networks to manage vaccination of their entire populations and do boosters would be the 1/3rd area wouldn't they?

Also, if you agree with the above statement, then why didn't you provide that context? Isn't your point then misleading?

83% of blood donors having anti-bodies is also ignoring the idea that almost none of them had Delta specific anti-bodies. If there is a new dominant variant every year, then I agree it will probably stick around. I just don't think it's a given Delta will be replaced in 6 months or that there will be a new variant every year that we can't keep ahead of with vaccines.

What you are saying to me is also totally viable and reasonable to me. Just not the only viable outcome IMO.


Please don't mix conversations that I'm having with Dresden. He isn't interested in serious conversations and is just trying to play for "gotcha" type moments. Anyone who is even vaguely aware of our pandemic response is aware that authorities have intentionally lied at times with the intent of manipulating the public.

The "malaria" type outcome isn't one that I have ever read for covid. That doesn't happen for rhinovirus / influenza / coronavirus type diseases where they stay localized.

Again, I really don't think we are on the same page and I'll take a lot of the blame for that because I'm organizing my thoughts poorly. I think there is a STRONG chance that we will be able to stay in front of this with vaccines if people choose to participate. I highly recommend that everyone get vaccinated.

Even in absence of that, eventually everyone is going to get natural immunity to covid. Coronaviruses mutate slowly so once you have that immunity, you tamp down severity.

This is an older article but it covers a lot of the scientific basics:
“By far the most likely scenario is that the virus will continue to spread and infect most of the world population in a relatively short period of time,” says Stöhr, meaning one to two years. “Afterwards, the virus will continue to spread in the human population, likely forever.” Like the four generally mild human coronaviruses, SARS-CoV-2 would then circulate constantly and cause mainly mild upper respiratory tract infections, says Stöhr. For that reason, he adds, vaccines won’t be necessary.

Some previous studies support this argument. One10 showed that when people were inoculated with the common-cold coronavirus 229E, their antibody levels peaked two weeks later and were only slightly raised after a year. That did not prevent infections a year later, but subsequent infections led to few, if any, symptoms and a shorter period of viral shedding.

The OC43 coronavirus offers a model for where this pandemic might go. That virus also gives humans common colds, but genetic research from the University of Leuven in Belgium suggests that OC43 might have been a killer in the past11. That study indicates that OC43 spilled over to humans in around 1890 from cows, which got it from mice. The scientists suggest that OC43 was responsible for a pandemic that killed more than one million people worldwide in 1889–90 — an outbreak previously blamed on influenza. Today, OC43 continues to circulate widely and it might be that continual exposure to the virus keeps the great majority of people immune to it.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01315-7

There is a lot of hedging at points in that article but a lot of people point to the section I just quoted as a likely long term outcome. That was May 2020 btw and Nature is a highly regarded scientific publication.


Anyone who has been reading this thread for awhile knows that I am very much into having serious discussions on the topic. But I have a low tolerance for condescending know it alls. I can't help but defend Fauci and our other health care officials when someone without a public health background, or a medical degree, arrogantly and without a factual basis claims they are lying to the american public and have done so repeatedly throughout the pandemic. And when I ask you for proof of your statements, then it's crickets...
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1222 » by micromonkey » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:27 pm

coldfish wrote:Just to note, I have made a lot of comments but it is with the qualifier "given existing technology".

I know that experts are working on super vaccines for everything from the flu to the common cold that create long term durable immune responses. That said, we have been reading about cancer breakthroughs for decades and the results in the field frequently don't match the initial promise.

I sure hope this stuff pans out but I'm not going to guarantee it.

Side note: There are a lot of studies that link common infections to some cases of MS, Parkinson's, dementia, etc. Getting rid of these viruses would be huge.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/another-reason-to-get-flu-shot-study-finds-it-may-decrease-risk-of-alzheimers
The evidence, which was presented at the virtually-held Alzheimer’s Association International Conference in July, suggests that people who got at least one flu shot cut their risk of Alzheimer’s by about 17 percent, and those who regularly get vaccinated against the flu had an even lower risk of developing the disease.

Cancer is a different animal IMO. The army one is already underway on 29 people--so it isn't pie in the sky. Their timelines are slow because its long-term and its government. It's more a matter of funding testing and interest. And with a raging pandemic--the interest is there.

It seems we are getting close on this--COVID opened the doors for the mRNA platform and shorter times for emergency approval. Running things in parallel instead of serial is also a win--possibly more could even be done. If we have a worst case scenario where this lingers--then its likely instead of sitting in a lab for a decade because no one cares unless a fire is burning--it gets trials and tested much sooner. SARS and MERS work had been done but was running on much smaller budgets--which then provided a base for the vaccines we have today. I mean you need 10s of thousands (26k for moderna I think) to run these trials to actually release them--and those numbers, interest and funding will be there if this thing is ongoing.

Yes I am very interested in the Dementia/Alzheimer's, etc viral link--did not know about the flu vaccine benefit.
Vaccination against pneumonia between ages 65 and 75 reduced Alzheimer’s risk by up to 40% depending on individual genes. (non APOE4 I'd guess)
https://www.alz.org/aaic/releases_2020/vaccines-dementia-risk.asp
These are not causation--but the association that strong suggests viruses play a role (Herpes is one I read about)--they already know gingivitis can lead directly to alz (at least one "type") in mouse models. It may be pneumonia/flu or overall "viral load" or other opportunistic viruses that take advantage when pneumonia/flu strike. So make sure to floss and get your flu and pneumonia vaccines!

The BCG vaccine which also may protect broadly against severe Covid might also play a role in protection from Alzheimer's
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30696606/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31697701/
Conclusions: Bladder cancer patients treated with BCG were significantly less likely to develop AD at any age than patients who were not so treated. This finding of a retrospective study suggests that BCG treatment might also reduce the incidence of AD in the general population. Confirmation of such effects of BCG in other retrospective studies would support prospective studies of BCG in AD.

Small study and limited but look at the graphs--wow.

So I can only wonder with COVID--if a severe case --what that does--as we know it directly attacks grey matter
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01693-6
So its not even risking severe cases/hospitalization/death--it's a fair guess that we could see a spike in dementia worldwide from this damn thing. Of course we don't know--but seeing the impact that flu and pneumonia vaccines have (and the flu vaccine is much worse than the COVID ones in efficacy)--and knowing the neurological issues COVID already causes--this could be a time bomb.

The flu vaccine was one I always did/do because it was free and why not--now I have an even stronger reason to take it.

I wonder if a yearly course of anti-virals will eventually be recommended for those over 65 at some point....just reducing any potential viral load periodically may end up having a benefit--even if below the radar and asymptomatic. I'm imagining some pretty crazy commercials in my head....
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1223 » by Almost Retired » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:48 pm

http://www.abcbusinessnews.com/2021/10/nih-contradicts-fauci-admits-funding-gain-of-function-research-at-wuhan-lab/

We can agree to disagree on the vaccines but can we put this issue to rest. Of course it was gain of function that Wuhan was doing. Finishing a process started by Dr Baric in North Carolina over a decade ago.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1224 » by micromonkey » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:08 pm

Almost Retired wrote:http://www.abcbusinessnews.com/2021/10/nih-contradicts-fauci-admits-funding-gain-of-function-research-at-wuhan-lab/

We can agree to disagree on the vaccines but can we put this issue to rest. Of course it was gain of function that Wuhan was doing. Finishing a process started by Dr Baric in North Carolina over a decade ago.


I don't disagree but I think it was all "legal" from the accepted definitions based on the Obama moratorium wording.
This thread does into details of how they weasel around it. Gain of function in the legal definition that was laid out by Obama's white house

Read on Twitter


The source White House doc
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2014/10/17/doing-diligence-assess-risks-and-benefits-life-sciences-gain-function-research

The weasel words are here

The funding pause will not apply to the characterization or testing of naturally occurring influenza, MERS, and SARS viruses unless there is a reasonable expectation that these tests would increase transmissibility or pathogenicity.


So as Chan mentions--
Basically it had no teeth regarding research that was happening anywhere, including in the US, even if it was funded by federal $.

You only needed to get around "reasonably anticipated" and "voluntary".


We need to change this definition, saying Fauci is a slick weasel wins us nothing--the rules suck and need fixing.
Its like me complaining about Harden's fishing for free throws--the Rules/Refs suck--he's just playing the game as allowed...
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1225 » by Dresden » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:55 pm

My understanding of what GOF research is, is that it is when you modify in the lab a pathogen that then makes it more infectious or more transmissible. From what the letter states, this was a naturally occurring organism they were studying, and they did not make any modifications to it in the lab. They just tested to see “if spike proteins from naturally occurring bat coronaviruses circulating in China were capable of binding to the human ACE2 receptor in a mouse model.” I don't see any danger in finding that out- they didn't create a new virus that was more lethal, did they?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1226 » by Dresden » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:00 pm

In any case, all of this seems to rest on such a minor technical detail in a very gray area of science, and all these GOP members of congress are using this as a giant "Gotcha" moment- Rand Paul even announcing that Fauci should be "prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law". For what? For funding research that did not create any new dangers, but just studied viruses that were already out there, to see what they could do, and how we can stop them?

This whole thing look like a giant witch hunt, not unlike the way the GOP blew up the Benghazi affair into a huge scandal in attempt to muddy Hillary Clinton's presidential bid. Maybe to take the public's attention away from Jan 6th???
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1227 » by dougthonus » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:04 pm

I'll start out by saying:
1: Gun to my head, I believe COVID originated in the Wuhan lab and wasn't naturally occurring
2: Gun to my head, I believe the Wuhan lab was doing GOF research
3: We'll likely never get proof of either

I don't think there is any outcome with this though. You aren't going to meaningfully hold China accountable in any way.

We also are experimenting with dangerous stuff all over the world. Our research into AI is extraordinarily dangerous to humanity and has no restrictions at all that I'm aware of. It's probably an order of magnitude greater risk than experimenting on viruses.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1228 » by Dresden » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:05 pm

From the NIH:

"to create, transfer or use potential pandemic pathogens resulting from the enhancement of a pathogen’s transmissibility and/or virulence in humans. "

So where did that recent letter from the NIH state that the researchers "enhanced a pathogen's transmissibility, etc."? All it said was that it tested whether or not it already had a certain function.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1229 » by gardenofsound » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:02 pm

Almost Retired wrote:http://www.abcbusinessnews.com/2021/10/nih-contradicts-fauci-admits-funding-gain-of-function-research-at-wuhan-lab/

We can agree to disagree on the vaccines but can we put this issue to rest. Of course it was gain of function that Wuhan was doing. Finishing a process started by Dr Baric in North Carolina over a decade ago.


Just want to note that this is not the same ABC (American Broadcasting Company). This seems to be a news aggregator for Breitbart/Drudge, etc. Also... not using HTTPS in 2021? Amateur.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/experience-awareness-abcbusinessnews-com/
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1230 » by dougthonus » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:10 pm

Almost Retired wrote:http://www.abcbusinessnews.com/2021/10/nih-contradicts-fauci-admits-funding-gain-of-function-research-at-wuhan-lab/

We can agree to disagree on the vaccines but can we put this issue to rest. Of course it was gain of function that Wuhan was doing. Finishing a process started by Dr Baric in North Carolina over a decade ago.


Worth noting if you read the actual NIH letter, instead of clicking on the article, that the letter absolutely does not say that. Unsurprising given the source is someone taking a name that sounds reputable and be attached to ABC even though it is not and the website itself, down to its name, is intellectually dishonest.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1231 » by Dresden » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:41 pm

gardenofsound wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:http://www.abcbusinessnews.com/2021/10/nih-contradicts-fauci-admits-funding-gain-of-function-research-at-wuhan-lab/

We can agree to disagree on the vaccines but can we put this issue to rest. Of course it was gain of function that Wuhan was doing. Finishing a process started by Dr Baric in North Carolina over a decade ago.


Just want to note that this is not the same ABC (American Broadcasting Company). This seems to be a news aggregator for Breitbart/Drudge, etc. Also... not using HTTPS in 2021? Amateur.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/experience-awareness-abcbusinessnews-com/


Thanks, I didn't notice that. Although I assume those comments from the senators are real.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1232 » by Dresden » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:44 pm

dougthonus wrote:I'll start out by saying:
1: Gun to my head, I believe COVID originated in the Wuhan lab and wasn't naturally occurring
2: Gun to my head, I believe the Wuhan lab was doing GOF research
3: We'll likely never get proof of either

I don't think there is any outcome with this though. You aren't going to meaningfully hold China accountable in any way.

We also are experimenting with dangerous stuff all over the world. Our research into AI is extraordinarily dangerous to humanity and has no restrictions at all that I'm aware of. It's probably an order of magnitude greater risk than experimenting on viruses.


But we may get proof that the virus is found in nature, which would at least provide another mechanism for it's spread, even if that would not totally rule out a lab accident. As others have pointed it, it took years to pinpoint the animal sources of other viruses in the past.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1233 » by dougthonus » Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:23 pm

Dresden wrote:But we may get proof that the virus is found in nature, which would at least provide another mechanism for it's spread, even if that would not totally rule out a lab accident. As others have pointed it, it took years to pinpoint the animal sources of other viruses in the past.


We may, and if such proof exists, I may change my mind, as I noted, I'm not a hard core believer in any one virus theory. I just think lab leak is more likely than natural given the epicenter is right next to one of three places in the world we study coronaviruses.

Like I said though, even if I had conclusive proof it did escape from Wuhan, and even if on top of that, I had conclusive proof that China was doing illegal GOF research, then what? China going to issue an apology? Maybe. They going to bring people back from the dead? No. They going to pay for anything? I doubt it. There is on consequence that matters to me about whether this escaped from China or not. It'd be interesting to know, but that's about it.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1234 » by Dresden » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:00 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:But we may get proof that the virus is found in nature, which would at least provide another mechanism for it's spread, even if that would not totally rule out a lab accident. As others have pointed it, it took years to pinpoint the animal sources of other viruses in the past.


We may, and if such proof exists, I may change my mind, as I noted, I'm not a hard core believer in any one virus theory. I just think lab leak is more likely than natural given the epicenter is right next to one of three places in the world we study coronaviruses.

Like I said though, even if I had conclusive proof it did escape from Wuhan, and even if on top of that, I had conclusive proof that China was doing illegal GOF research, then what? China going to issue an apology? Maybe. They going to bring people back from the dead? No. They going to pay for anything? I doubt it. There is on consequence that matters to me about whether this escaped from China or not. It'd be interesting to know, but that's about it.


I think it will have enormous consequences if it is discovered that this pandemic was caused by a lab leak and was from a virus that had been modified in the lab. Imagine if you could prove that China's sloppy lab work, or their covert research on GOF experiments, was the cause of 5 million deaths worldwide? I don't think it would be out of the question for reparations to be demanded. The whole Chinese scientific community would be suspect for the next few decades. Grant money would dry up from abroad. Not to mention the loss of face China would be met with. Would they feel compelled to at least issue an apology at a world forum like the UN? What would that cost them in terms of prestige, in how they are seen around the world, particularly in the 3rd world, where China has been fostering a lot of international development projects, and making trade arrangements.

I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of, but something of this magnitude would greatly harm China's reputation for a long time, and the consequences of that would be far reaching, IMO, even if it would not involve direct reparations or something of that sort. And it would do great harm to US/China relations, I'm sure. US public opinion is already suspicious of China- if something like this was proven, it would be very hard politically for any sort of engagement with China, and could involve sanctions of some sort- in particular regarding scientific exchanges, etc.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1235 » by Almost Retired » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:22 pm

Dr. Steven Quayle and a team of researchers went over to China, tested over 8,000 animals. Could not find a single one harboring the virus then ended up killing close to 5 million people. Dr. Baric in N.C., then DARPA in Maryland, then the Wuhan Lab, took an obscure coronavirus harbored in bats and ran it through serial cell cultures and animals in order to increase the virus's affinity for ACE-2 receptors.....which gave it the capacity for airborn transmission from human to human. Our government is never going to admit it. China is never going to admit it. In the immortal words of Hillary Clinton...at this point what difference does it make? They can set off all the rhetorical smoke bombs and unleash all the Clintonesque weasel word salads they can muster. The fact remains. That virus, in it's natural state almost 1,000 miles from Wuhan in a cave was not a danger to mankind. It was manipulated to become one.

As for Fauci, say we give him the benefit of the doubt. Then he testified before Congress and gave Clintonesque responses to questions about gain of function. Like saying oral sex is not sex. At the worst he blatantly lied before Congress. If the latter he deserves to be reprimanded in the same way that a conservative witness would be treated if he or she lied to Congress. Perhaps at the very least he needs to appear once again and "re-explain" his prior testimony under oath and under questioning.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/physician-scientist-steven-quay-and-an-international-team-of-scientists-and-investigators-provide-science-based-analysis-of-the-origin-of-covid-19-to-the-us-congress-301334600.html
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1236 » by dougthonus » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:08 pm

Dresden wrote:I think it will have enormous consequences if it is discovered that this pandemic was caused by a lab leak and was from a virus that had been modified in the lab. Imagine if you could prove that China's sloppy lab work, or their covert research on GOF experiments, was the cause of 5 million deaths worldwide? I don't think it would be out of the question for reparations to be demanded. The whole Chinese scientific community would be suspect for the next few decades. Grant money would dry up from abroad. Not to mention the loss of face China would be met with. Would they feel compelled to at least issue an apology at a world forum like the UN? What would that cost them in terms of prestige, in how they are seen around the world, particularly in the 3rd world, where China has been fostering a lot of international development projects, and making trade arrangements.

I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of, but something of this magnitude would greatly harm China's reputation for a long time, and the consequences of that would be far reaching, IMO, even if it would not involve direct reparations or something of that sort. And it would do great harm to US/China relations, I'm sure. US public opinion is already suspicious of China- if something like this was proven, it would be very hard politically for any sort of engagement with China, and could involve sanctions of some sort- in particular regarding scientific exchanges, etc.


It's funny, most of those consequences seem like they would be net negatives to me. I agree that China may lose prestige, may be sanctioned in some way, I doubt they would pay reparations personally, but who knows. However, I think the rest of raising tensions around the world would ultimately not benefit anyone.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1237 » by dougthonus » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:18 pm

Almost Retired wrote:Dr. Steven Quayle and a team of researchers went over to China, tested over 8,000 animals. Could not find a single one harboring the virus then ended up killing close to 5 million people. Dr. Baric in N.C., then DARPA in Maryland, then the Wuhan Lab, took an obscure coronavirus harbored in bats and ran it through serial cell cultures and animals in order to increase the virus's affinity for ACE-2 receptors.....which gave it the capacity for airborn transmission from human to human. Our government is never going to admit it. China is never going to admit it. In the immortal words of Hillary Clinton...at this point what difference does it make? They can set off all the rhetorical smoke bombs and unleash all the Clintonesque weasel word salads they can muster. The fact remains. That virus, in it's natural state almost 1,000 miles from Wuhan in a cave was not a danger to mankind. It was manipulated to become one.


The virus that killed a bunch of people is yet of unknown origin. To say it is manipulated to become a killer virus by GOF testing in a lab is something that has yet to be substantiated yet in any way and is just your pet theory.

The letter you posted as proof that GOF was taking place, explicitly said there was no GOF research but was unintended consequence and that the GOF that did happen was explicitly shown to not be on a virus related to COVID-19. So you can either disclaim the whole letter as false (even though you yourself sourced it), or you can take it as what is said in it, which is that this is unrelated to COVID-19.

Instead, you have taken this information and have straight up lied about what it says or you were too lazy to realize that you were repeating information that was straight up lying about what was said.

As for Fauci, say we give him the benefit of the doubt. Then he testified before Congress and gave Clintonesque responses to questions about gain of function. Like saying oral sex is not sex. At the worst he blatantly lied before Congress. If the latter he deserves to be reprimanded in the same way that a conservative witness would be treated if he or she lied to Congress. Perhaps at the very least he needs to appear once again and "re-explain" his prior testimony under oath and under questioning.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/physician-scientist-steven-quay-and-an-international-team-of-scientists-and-investigators-provide-science-based-analysis-of-the-origin-of-covid-19-to-the-us-congress-301334600.html


What did he straight up lie about to congress?

You're source is a guy who decided to interpret the WHO report but didn't actually research anything?
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1238 » by Dresden » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:29 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:I think it will have enormous consequences if it is discovered that this pandemic was caused by a lab leak and was from a virus that had been modified in the lab. Imagine if you could prove that China's sloppy lab work, or their covert research on GOF experiments, was the cause of 5 million deaths worldwide? I don't think it would be out of the question for reparations to be demanded. The whole Chinese scientific community would be suspect for the next few decades. Grant money would dry up from abroad. Not to mention the loss of face China would be met with. Would they feel compelled to at least issue an apology at a world forum like the UN? What would that cost them in terms of prestige, in how they are seen around the world, particularly in the 3rd world, where China has been fostering a lot of international development projects, and making trade arrangements.

I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of, but something of this magnitude would greatly harm China's reputation for a long time, and the consequences of that would be far reaching, IMO, even if it would not involve direct reparations or something of that sort. And it would do great harm to US/China relations, I'm sure. US public opinion is already suspicious of China- if something like this was proven, it would be very hard politically for any sort of engagement with China, and could involve sanctions of some sort- in particular regarding scientific exchanges, etc.


It's funny, most of those consequences seem like they would be net negatives to me. I agree that China may lose prestige, may be sanctioned in some way, I doubt they would pay reparations personally, but who knows. However, I think the rest of raising tensions around the world would ultimately not benefit anyone.


I agree it would create a pretty major international incident that could have negative fallout for many countries. But the truth is the truth, and it should be uncovered. And if it was a lab leak, then obviously the scientific community will have to address what changes need to be made in order to insure nothing like that ever happens again, to the degree possible.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1239 » by micromonkey » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:13 pm

Almost Retired wrote:That virus, in it's natural state almost 1,000 miles from Wuhan in a cave was not a danger to mankind. It was manipulated to become one.


Where exactly is "that" virus in its natural state/ ie the "base" virus that was edited?

There isn't one known at the time close enough to be manipulated.
There is no GoF where they randomly manipulate 100s or 1000s of sites

The closest ones still are not close enough.

Again if we want to take lab leak and or GoF lab leak seriously we need serious positive data.
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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #4 

Post#1240 » by Almost Retired » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:34 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:Dr. Steven Quayle and a team of researchers went over to China, tested over 8,000 animals. Could not find a single one harboring the virus then ended up killing close to 5 million people. Dr. Baric in N.C., then DARPA in Maryland, then the Wuhan Lab, took an obscure coronavirus harbored in bats and ran it through serial cell cultures and animals in order to increase the virus's affinity for ACE-2 receptors.....which gave it the capacity for airborn transmission from human to human. Our government is never going to admit it. China is never going to admit it. In the immortal words of Hillary Clinton...at this point what difference does it make? They can set off all the rhetorical smoke bombs and unleash all the Clintonesque weasel word salads they can muster. The fact remains. That virus, in it's natural state almost 1,000 miles from Wuhan in a cave was not a danger to mankind. It was manipulated to become one.


The virus that killed a bunch of people is yet of unknown origin. To say it is manipulated to become a killer virus by GOF testing in a lab is something that has yet to be substantiated yet in any way and is just your pet theory.

The letter you posted as proof that GOF was taking place, explicitly said there was no GOF research but was unintended consequence and that the GOF that did happen was explicitly shown to not be on a virus related to COVID-19. So you can either disclaim the whole letter as false (even though you yourself sourced it), or you can take it as what is said in it, which is that this is unrelated to COVID-19.

Instead, you have taken this information and have straight up lied about what it says or you were too lazy to realize that you were repeating information that was straight up lying about what was said.

As for Fauci, say we give him the benefit of the doubt. Then he testified before Congress and gave Clintonesque responses to questions about gain of function. Like saying oral sex is not sex. At the worst he blatantly lied before Congress. If the latter he deserves to be reprimanded in the same way that a conservative witness would be treated if he or she lied to Congress. Perhaps at the very least he needs to appear once again and "re-explain" his prior testimony under oath and under questioning.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/physician-scientist-steven-quay-and-an-international-team-of-scientists-and-investigators-provide-science-based-analysis-of-the-origin-of-covid-19-to-the-us-congress-301334600.html


[b]What did he straight up lie about to congress?[/b]

You're source is a guy who decided to interpret the WHO report but didn't actually research anything?


You can easily access the video of Fauci's exchange with Rand Paul. Paul asked him about gain of function and Fauci denied it and told Paul he didn't know what he was talking about. Why did NIH Director Francis Collins resign after his Wuhan Lab lies were exposed? It was gain of function happening at Wuhan. And we helped to fund it. Period.

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