Bears 2023 Thread

[biggestbullsfan]

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If they wanna trade up for Carter, I’m probably asking for a 1st in return. That’s only if we don’t want Carter for ourselves. Otherwise, I’d keep it.

[TheStig]

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If they wanna trade up for Carter, I’m probably asking for a 1st in return. That’s only if we don’t want Carter for ourselves. Otherwise, I’d keep it.

Steelers aren't giving up a future 1st. If you're lucky, you'll get the pick back we gave them for claypool. I'd rather take carter. Eberflus is a defensive coach, if anyone can get the most out of that talent, it's him. I still think they should have hired Dabol.

[NesimLE]

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If they wanna trade up for Carter, I’m probably asking for a 1st in return. That’s only if we don’t want Carter for ourselves. Otherwise, I’d keep it.

The only difficulty is, we can't have an asking price that's "too" high because it's not like they can't try to jump ahead of us if we make it clear that we want him ourselves. So if we're taking a hard line on Carter, we either need to be willing to move up to get him ourselves in the worst case, or have a backup plan in place (preferably a team that is willing to trade up for whoever falls if Carter isn't there)
Based on the cost we had to pay to move up from 20 to 11 though, a 1st would probably be the starting point, if not our lost second and other incentives.

[MalagaBulls]

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Hurts got paid, 5/255M with 179M plus as guaranteed.

Sets up an interesting market value comp for Fields if he balls out this year. You can see some parallel in Hurts jumping in production from year 2 to 3. But my specific comp would take Fields reaching Hurts level of production in 2024, not this year which would co-incide with his 5th year. The trenches aren't there yet although a good jump in wins to 7-9 is possible. So it is interesting in that regard.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

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I remember when ppl said he might fall into the 2nd or 3rd round lol

I know ppl compare him to Aaron Donald, but he screams Albert Haynesworth to me. He'll play when he feels like it. I want nothing to do with Carter. I don't trust Carter. Let him be a headache to somebody else. If the Bears went DT, I rather have the young man from Pittsburgh.

It's hard to argue against anyone that flat out doesn't want him. He obviously struggles with self control, driving like a maniac repeatedly over the last year. Takes plays off at Georgia, and isn't in the best shape. These are all major, major red flags. If he busts, everyone will say 'well duh, wasn't it obvious?"

But then again, if Hannibal Lector ran a 4.30 40 time the NFL would call him as someone with an eating disorder so he can play.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

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Hurts got paid, 5/255M with 179M plus as guaranteed.

Sets up an interesting market value comp for Fields if he balls out this year. You can see some parallel in Hurts jumping in production from year 2 to 3. But my specific comp would take Fields reaching Hurts level of production in 2024, not this year which would co-incide with his 5th year. The trenches aren't there yet although a good jump in wins to 7-9 is possible. So it is interesting in that regard.

Hurts is one of my favorite stories. The guy got benched on the biggest stage in college, was honestly embarrassed and had never really happened before.

Highest paid NFL player. Good for him. Another guy that teams thought was an athlete that couldn't play QB. How wrong they were.

[Dresden]

I agree. Passing over Gonzalez if he's there would be one of the few decisions that could disappoint me at this point...(selecting van Ness is in the running for another, although I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt on that)

I'm not keen on Van Ness, either- gives me Leonard Floyd vibes.

I'm curious what gives you those vibes about Van Ness? From what I've seen, they look like 2 completely different players coming out of college. I'm not huge on Van Ness, but he does have the flexibility to go inside on passing downs. He's all about length and power, where Floyd was more of a speed/bend guy (if I remember correctly).

I just meant in terms of being drafted hoping he can become a better player than he was in college due to his measurements. I've also read he doesn't have many other options if he can't just overpower someone. I'd rather trade down and take Kancey.

[fleet]

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If they wanna trade up for Carter, I’m probably asking for a 1st in return. That’s only if we don’t want Carter for ourselves. Otherwise, I’d keep it.

By implication, the Bears don’t want Carter, and are willing to auction him off. Last week, reports were that the Bears were supposed to be holding everything up to see if they can still get him. That’s what I figured, smokescreen. But yeah they should play it to the bone. I would rather take Carter. What I think might happen is that the Lions might take him, and Nolan Smith, and absolutely smash our offensive line for years. In the case the Lions do get an impenetrable line, that dictates that the Bears put everything they can on offense. That is the type of development that changes plans for every team in the North. The Bears have to draft accordingly.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

I'm not keen on Van Ness, either- gives me Leonard Floyd vibes.

I'm curious what gives you those vibes about Van Ness? From what I've seen, they look like 2 completely different players coming out of college. I'm not huge on Van Ness, but he does have the flexibility to go inside on passing downs. He's all about length and power, where Floyd was more of a speed/bend guy (if I remember correctly).

I just meant in terms of being drafted hoping he can become a better player than he was in college due to his measurements. I've also read he doesn't have many other options if he can't just overpower someone. I'd rather trade down and take Kancey.

Gotcha, that makes sense. It's definitely true about his need to develop some moves. He heavily relies on that bull rush to get to the QB. And I'm not sure if that's feasible against NFL size and strength.

[fleet]

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I remember when ppl said he might fall into the 2nd or 3rd round lol

I know ppl compare him to Aaron Donald, but he screams Albert Haynesworth to me. He'll play when he feels like it. I want nothing to do with Carter. I don't trust Carter. Let him be a headache to somebody else. If the Bears went DT, I rather have the young man from Pittsburgh.

It's hard to argue against anyone that flat out doesn't want him. He obviously struggles with self control, driving like a maniac repeatedly over the last year. Takes plays off at Georgia, and isn't in the best shape. These are all major, major red flags. If he busts, everyone will say 'well duh, wasn't it obvious?"

But then again, if Hannibal Lector ran a 4.30 40 time the NFL would call him as someone with an eating disorder so he can play.

The moment the Steelers ask Poles to draft Carter for them, is the moment Poles should realize that he should keep Carter. The Steelers know wtf they are doing.

[CROBulls]

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If they wanna trade up for Carter, I’m probably asking for a 1st in return. That’s only if we don’t want Carter for ourselves. Otherwise, I’d keep it.

It's a heavy no. You want Carter at #9 for yourself. Otherwise teams trading up for Carter needs to give up something valuable beyond their #19. They basically need to overpay and make it one sided deal.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I know ppl compare him to Aaron Donald, but he screams Albert Haynesworth to me. He'll play when he feels like it. I want nothing to do with Carter. I don't trust Carter. Let him be a headache to somebody else. If the Bears went DT, I rather have the young man from Pittsburgh.

It's hard to argue against anyone that flat out doesn't want him. He obviously struggles with self control, driving like a maniac repeatedly over the last year. Takes plays off at Georgia, and isn't in the best shape. These are all major, major red flags. If he busts, everyone will say 'well duh, wasn't it obvious?"

But then again, if Hannibal Lector ran a 4.30 40 time the NFL would call him as someone with an eating disorder so he can play.

The moment the Steelers ask Poles to draft Carter for them, is the moment Poles should realize that he should keep Carter. The Steelers know wtf they are doing.

Pittsburgh ranks 16th in the league in drafting over the last 10 years per a column ESPN did on this last year. They're ok, but aren't exactly setting the world on fire.

Bears have been the worst or one of the worst, but different front office here.

If any coach can get Carter to play, its Tomlin. Not sure Eberflus is at that same level honestly. If he doesn't think he can maximize Carter, they should go in another direction.

[bad knees]

I don’t know how much more you could reasonably expect from a deal other than a higher ‘23 second rounder. In that respect, a bird in the hand is plenty worth doing

If we held onto the cards we'd be sitting at #1 right now with only 3 out of the QBs projected into the top ten. Teams know we wouldn't be picking a QB and Arizona would have all the leverage.

Oh, and we wouldn't have David effin' Putney.

At the time of the trade all 4 QBs were mocked in the top 5. I'd say we sold at top dollar value.

Poles didn’t jump at the first offer. He used his leverage

ON TUESDAY (MARCH 7TH), FITTERER STARTED HEARING BUZZ THAT THE BEARS WERE IN TALKS WITH OTHER TEAMS AND COULD BE CLOSING IN ON MAKING A DEAL.

“TUESDAY AFTERNOON, YOU JUST GOT THE SENSE THE PICK WAS GOING TO BE TRADED,” FITTERER SAID. “I KIND OF HEARD SOME THINGS, SO I CALLED RYAN. HE’S LIKE, ‘OK, WHY DON’T WE TALK? WHY DON’T YOU THROW SOMETHING TOGETHER FOR US?'”

THE PANTHERS WENT TO WORK AND MADE A DIFFICULT DECISION TO INCLUDE MOORE, WHO HAD BEEN A STAPLE IN CAROLINA SINCE HE WAS DRAFTED IN 2018

Been doing other things but wanted to come back to this Poles topic since I caught so much grief. When you have an asset that you know that multiple other teams want, the best thing to do is to organize an auction. You let the bidders do their due diligence, and you set a time frame, and then you get everyone's best offers. If you want, you can use one team's bid to juice the others. It's like selling a house in a seller's market, for goodness sake. With the number one pick, Poles chose to jump at the first significant offer that he received. What he should have done is wait until the pro days were over so that every team had its diligence completed and then sought each bidder's best offer. Simple as that. He's told us that he knew after the Combine that the Panthers were super serious and wanted to draft their next quarterback. Great, let them stew for a few weeks. Instead, Poles acted early, before many other teams had completed their evaluations. For example, he said that HOU was still evaluating whether to trade up. Why not give them some more time? I saw the comments about one of the four QB's falling out of the top ten and how that shows Poles' wisdom in trading so early. I presume that was about Levis because a couple mocks had come out around that time that had him falling. But since then Kiper and Yahoo have mocked him in the top 4. The point is, none of us know exactly what will happen. That's why you follow a process.

Yes, Poles got a nice haul, and we all hope that Moore is better than David Putney. I just believe that there was a good chance that he could have gotten more, and even based on his own version, there was close to zero risk in waiting to organize an auction given what he knew about the intensity of CAR's interest. For example, getting CAR's earlier second round pick in this draft would sure look good right about now.

Poles did the same thing the previous time when he had an asset that multiple teams would want - Khalil Mack. Rather than conducting an auction and making him available league wide, Poles told the press that he let Mack decide where he wanted to go. I'm sorry, I don't buy that approach as being in the Bears' best interest.

I also don't think he did a particularly good job with the draft last year. The most important objective of his job was to maximize Fields' opportunity to demonstrate whether he is a franchise quarterback. The whole world knew that our WR room was crap. George Pickens was there for the taking at either round 2 pick. Instead he went with Kyler Gordon, who started the season as one of the worst CB's in the league and improved to merely bad. And then, in the third round, he felt the pressure to grab a receiver and reached for Jones - a sixth year senior who did not have success until his sixth year, and who will likely be out of the league soon. Yes, he hit on Braxton Jones and Brisker looks like a winner. But he needs to be better in the draft. I sure hope he is better this year.

Then there is the Claiborne trade. Man, wouldn't we like to have the 32nd pick about now. The fact that we were so assertive about including Moore in the trade with CAR tells us that the Bears now have strong doubts about Claiborne as an elite receiver.

All in all, I would give Poles a C so far. He is a young guy who is learning on the job. I hope he improves with age and experience. He seems like a hard worker and a decent person. I'm rooting for him to succeed. I just can't agree with the view that he is a great GM at this point.

[Dresden]

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I remember when ppl said he might fall into the 2nd or 3rd round lol

I know ppl compare him to Aaron Donald, but he screams Albert Haynesworth to me. He'll play when he feels like it. I want nothing to do with Carter. I don't trust Carter. Let him be a headache to somebody else. If the Bears went DT, I rather have the young man from Pittsburgh.

It's hard to argue against anyone that flat out doesn't want him. He obviously struggles with self control, driving like a maniac repeatedly over the last year. Takes plays off at Georgia, and isn't in the best shape. These are all major, major red flags. If he busts, everyone will say 'well duh, wasn't it obvious?"

But then again, if Hannibal Lector ran a 4.30 40 time the NFL would call him as someone with an eating disorder so he can play.

Yeah, but if/when he becomes a dominant player, everyone will look back and say "well, he was a little immature, but you could always see the talent was there".

[Dresden]

It's hard to argue against anyone that flat out doesn't want him. He obviously struggles with self control, driving like a maniac repeatedly over the last year. Takes plays off at Georgia, and isn't in the best shape. These are all major, major red flags. If he busts, everyone will say 'well duh, wasn't it obvious?"

But then again, if Hannibal Lector ran a 4.30 40 time the NFL would call him as someone with an eating disorder so he can play.

The moment the Steelers ask Poles to draft Carter for them, is the moment Poles should realize that he should keep Carter. The Steelers know wtf they are doing.

Pittsburgh ranks 16th in the league in drafting over the last 10 years per a column ESPN did on this last year. They're ok, but aren't exactly setting the world on fire.

Bears have been the worst or one of the worst, but different front office here.

If any coach can get Carter to play, its Tomlin. Not sure Eberflus is at that same level honestly. If he doesn't think he can maximize Carter, they should go in another direction.

Not only are they only average at drafting, they also decided Mitch Trubisky would be their starting QB a year ago.

[Dresden]

If we held onto the cards we'd be sitting at #1 right now with only 3 out of the QBs projected into the top ten. Teams know we wouldn't be picking a QB and Arizona would have all the leverage.

Oh, and we wouldn't have David effin' Putney.

At the time of the trade all 4 QBs were mocked in the top 5. I'd say we sold at top dollar value.

Poles didn’t jump at the first offer. He used his leverage

ON TUESDAY (MARCH 7TH), FITTERER STARTED HEARING BUZZ THAT THE BEARS WERE IN TALKS WITH OTHER TEAMS AND COULD BE CLOSING IN ON MAKING A DEAL.

“TUESDAY AFTERNOON, YOU JUST GOT THE SENSE THE PICK WAS GOING TO BE TRADED,” FITTERER SAID. “I KIND OF HEARD SOME THINGS, SO I CALLED RYAN. HE’S LIKE, ‘OK, WHY DON’T WE TALK? WHY DON’T YOU THROW SOMETHING TOGETHER FOR US?'”

THE PANTHERS WENT TO WORK AND MADE A DIFFICULT DECISION TO INCLUDE MOORE, WHO HAD BEEN A STAPLE IN CAROLINA SINCE HE WAS DRAFTED IN 2018

Been doing other things but wanted to come back to this Poles topic since I caught so much grief. When you have an asset that you know that multiple other teams want, the best thing to do is to organize an auction. You let the bidders do their due diligence, and you set a time frame, and then you get everyone's best offers. If you want, you can use one team's bid to juice the others. It's like selling a house in a seller's market, for goodness sake. With the number one pick, Poles chose to jump at the first significant offer that he received. What he should have done is wait until the pro days were over so that every team had its diligence completed and then sought each bidder's best offer. Simple as that. He's told us that he knew after the Combine that the Panthers were super serious and wanted to draft their next quarterback. Great, let them stew for a few weeks. Instead, Poles acted early, before many other teams had completed their evaluations. For example, he said that HOU was still evaluating whether to trade up. Why not give them some more time? I saw the comments about one of the four QB's falling out of the top ten and how that shows Poles' wisdom in trading so early. I presume that was about Levis because a couple mocks had come out around that time that had him falling. But since then Kiper and Yahoo have mocked him in the top 4. The point is, none of us know exactly what will happen. That's why you follow a process.

Yes, Poles got a nice haul, and we all hope that Moore is better than David Putney. I just believe that there was a good chance that he could have gotten more, and even based on his own version, there was close to zero risk in waiting to organize an auction given what he knew about the intensity of CAR's interest. For example, getting CAR's earlier second round pick in this draft would sure look good right about now.

Poles did the same thing the previous time when he had an asset that multiple teams would want - Khalil Mack. Rather than conducting an auction and making him available league wide, Poles told the press that he let Mack decide where he wanted to go. I'm sorry, I don't buy that approach as being in the Bears' best interest.

I also don't think he did a particularly good job with the draft last year. The most important objective of his job was to maximize Fields' opportunity to demonstrate whether he is a franchise quarterback. The whole world knew that our WR room was crap. George Pickens was there for the taking at either round 2 pick. Instead he went with Kyler Gordon, who started the season as one of the worst CB's in the league and improved to merely bad. And then, in the third round, he felt the pressure to grab a receiver and reached for Jones - a sixth year senior who did not have success until his sixth year, and who will likely be out of the league soon. Yes, he hit on Braxton Jones and Brisker looks like a winner. But he needs to be better in the draft. I sure hope he is better this year.

Then there is the Claiborne trade. Man, wouldn't we like to have the 32nd pick about now. The fact that we were so assertive about including Moore in the trade with CAR tells us that the Bears now have strong doubts about Claiborne as an elite receiver.

All in all, I would give Poles a C so far. He is a young guy who is learning on the job. I hope he improves with age and experience. He seems like a hard worker and a decent person. I'm rooting for him to succeed. I just can't agree with the view that he is a great GM at this point.

A) It would have been a wild prediction at the time of the Claypool trade that the Bears would not win another game all season. It was a reasonable assumption to make that that pick would be somewhere around the 6th-12th pick in the second round, not the very first.

B) I don't think they ever viewed Claypool as an elite receiver. You wouldn't get an elite receiver for a 2nd round pick. They thought he would be good, likely a #2 or 2b, which he still could well be.

[Dresden]

Yahoo has a new mock out. Will Anderson falls all the way to 8, and Bears, at 9, take guess who? Skoronski.

https://sports.yahoo.com/2023-nfl-mock-draft-70-theres-a-new-no-1-overall-pick-and-one-team-makes-a-gutsy-play-for-will-levis-195111369.html

[ChiefILL53]

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If they wanna trade up for Carter, I’m probably asking for a 1st in return. That’s only if we don’t want Carter for ourselves. Otherwise, I’d keep it.

The only difficulty is, we can't have an asking price that's "too" high because it's not like they can't try to jump ahead of us if we make it clear that we want him ourselves. So if we're taking a hard line on Carter, we either need to be willing to move up to get him ourselves in the worst case, or have a backup plan in place (preferably a team that is willing to trade up for whoever falls if Carter isn't there)
Based on the cost we had to pay to move up from 20 to 11 though, a 1st would probably be the starting point, if not our lost second and other incentives.

This is why I say if we're moving to 17, then gotta add in next years 1st cuz its the same price we paid when we got Fields.

[Howling Mad]

there was close to zero risk in waiting

Incorrect.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

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If they wanna trade up for Carter, I’m probably asking for a 1st in return. That’s only if we don’t want Carter for ourselves. Otherwise, I’d keep it.

The only difficulty is, we can't have an asking price that's "too" high because it's not like they can't try to jump ahead of us if we make it clear that we want him ourselves. So if we're taking a hard line on Carter, we either need to be willing to move up to get him ourselves in the worst case, or have a backup plan in place (preferably a team that is willing to trade up for whoever falls if Carter isn't there)
Based on the cost we had to pay to move up from 20 to 11 though, a 1st would probably be the starting point, if not our lost second and other incentives.

This is why I say if we're moving to 17, then gotta add in next years 1st cuz its the same price we paid when we got Fields.

Just an FYI pick 32 in this years draft is worth more than a 1st next year. A future 1st value gets divided in half from a current first value.