Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[DaMayor73]

And if Rose is the outlier here? Ever condier that? And if he is the outlier, guess what? He will come back when he is ready mentally and physically. As it should be, arbtrary timeline be damned.

This isn't a question.
Rose already is the outlier here.
Where everyone disgrees is on the the extent of time. If Rose is not back by the first game (and I do expect him back, but just for the sake of this excercise), you said (I think it was you) that you would be upset....why..because it is past your own particular timeline.

Wrong poster. I never said I would be upset. I just want him healthy. However long that takes is fine with me.

[Rerisen]

The Bulls refusing to shut Rose down for the playoffs - which would be the normal course of action for an athlete having a setback this long, regardless physical or mental - tells us a ton about what their thinking really is to my mind.

The Bulls could end all this pressure and negative speculation on Rose by simply declaring him out. Make his life, and that of his bumbling 'team' immeasurably easier, by saying its the organizations call. They aren't doing it.

[KobeDwightPau]

I guaransheed if the bulls had a championship level roster rose would be back already.

[AAU Teammate]

It's mental because people have made him believe its mental. Likely convinced him to go against his own doctors and team's advice and timetable, because they 'know better'. Conclusions that Rose would likely not come to on his own.

We simply dont know this. We're not in their inner circle. You can't tell me you know for certain that Derrick isnt the absolute sole decision-maker on his return date. You have Bucher claiming to know who wields power in that circle (in fact, does he directly claim it?). It's all smoke-in-hope-of-fire. Media guys were certain William Wesley wielded power with Lebron.

Well, they were wrong.

Again, you're going off sources--which is fine--but then you're taking that beyond what it's worth to make larger accusations. At least that's the way it comes off.

which has hurt the team unnecessarily.

He could come back feeling odd and hurt the team. He could come back unsure of how far to push what he's feeling and be tentative. He could have a compensation injury that makes him hurt the team with his play. He could have a compensation injury that hurts his summer rehab plans. Whether it be summer league or what. And then in turn it might affect next season's start.

All of this is to say: we just dont know.

[panthermark]

So you're ok if Rose never plays again?

So fearing for your life is the same as having part of your body break? Weird, I wouldn't of put those 2 things together. Wow, fearing your life ending and having a body part break are the same to you, incredible.

Rose has been a ball player his entire life. That is who he is. So to have that threatened by a career-level injury is pretty life changing, no? So why wouldn't he make sure he was fully ready to go?

You basically ignored the question because the only answer you can give would be a lie.

Based on all you've argued, Rose could sit for the next 30 months, and you would be fine with it because it is his call. You know it isn't true, but you are trying to argue it.

Basically, you have your own timeline...it is just longer than others...but you don't want to admit it.

[jnrjr79]

The definition does not contain the word "codified," but it is immensely entertaining that you immediately try to change the definition to suit your own purposes.

The recovery from ACL injury is based upon decades of expert experienced gained by physicians in performing the surgeries and overseeing the rehabilitation process. It is the very antithesis of "arbitrary."

Additionally, you throw in the whole "no deviation" caveat. Again, you need to move the goalposts in order to have some semblance of an argument. Of course, given that the time for recovery is expressed in ranges, some degree of deviation is already built into the expectation.

You're welcome.

And again all of the evidence of physical recovery means nothing without taking into account the mental recovery as well. And that differs from patient to patient. Again, Rose may be an outlier. And that is just fine.

We have no indication that Rose is experiencing a medical issue with respect to mental health.

[DaMayor73]

Occams razor. Instead of believing all of the conspiracy nonsense and the "Rose is a wuss" garbage, I choose to believe the likeliest option: Rose needs more time to get his mental health in line with his physical health. Simple.

The likeliest option is he's sitting out for the very reasons that have been reported in the media and that his own brother publicly espoused. I can't even describe how much more likely that explanation is than friggin' PTSD.

No, that is a conspiracy theory. Has Rose not stated in the past that he was not comfortable? Yes, he has. Was it physical discomfort? Sure. Was it Mental discomfort? Yep. So why is my scenario not the likeliest? Sure seems like the most logical one....at least to me. Not some protest conspiracy deal....

[jnrjr79]

The Bulls refusing to shut Rose down for the playoffs - which would be the normal course of action for an athlete having a setback this long, regardless physical or mental - tells us a ton about what their thinking really is to my mind.

The Bulls could end all this pressure and negative speculation on Rose by simply declaring him out. Make his life, and that of his bumbling 'team' immeasurably easier, by saying its the organizations call. They aren't doing it.

Sam Smith indicated on a radio interview this week (I believe on the Score, if I recall) that the Bulls want to just announce a shut-down, but Team Rose prefers they leave it open.

[DaMayor73]

So you're ok if Rose never plays again?

So fearing for your life is the same as having part of your body break? Weird, I wouldn't of put those 2 things together. Wow, fearing your life ending and having a body part break are the same to you, incredible.

Rose has been a ball player his entire life. That is who he is. So to have that threatened by a career-level injury is pretty life changing, no? So why wouldn't he make sure he was fully ready to go?

You basically ignored the question because the only answer you can give would be a lie.

Based on all you've argued, Rose could sit for the next 30 months, and you would be fine with it because it is his call. You know it isn't true, but you are trying to argue it.

Basically, you have your own timeline...it is just longer than others...but you don't want to admit it.

Wong. I have no timeline. Would I like for him to be healthy and play? Sure. But I have no arbitrary date set up for him to return. When he is healthy, he will play. It really is that simple for me.

[jnrjr79]

Occams razor. Instead of believing all of the conspiracy nonsense and the "Rose is a wuss" garbage, I choose to believe the likeliest option: Rose needs more time to get his mental health in line with his physical health. Simple.

The likeliest option is he's sitting out for the very reasons that have been reported in the media and that his own brother publicly espoused. I can't even describe how much more likely that explanation is than friggin' PTSD.

No, that is a conspiracy theory. Has Rose not stated in the past that he was not comfortable? Yes, he has. Was it physical discomfort? Sure. Was it Mental discomfort? Yep. So why is my scenario not the likeliest? Sure seems like the most logical one....at least to me. Not some protest conspiracy deal....

Why do you refuse to be truthful?

Rose had physical discomfort over the course of his rehab. He has said he is now healthy.

He has not described any "mental discomfort."

I believe you might want to consult the dictionary again in your use of the term "conspiracy theory." His own manager came out and said this. It's not like it's been invented by fans.

[Rerisen]

It's mental because people have made him believe its mental. Likely convinced him to go against his own doctors and team's advice and timetable, because they 'know better'. Conclusions that Rose would likely not come to on his own.

We simply dont know this. We're not in their inner circle. You can't tell me you know for certain that Derrick isnt the absolute sole decision-maker on his return date. You have Bucher claiming to know who wields power in that circle. Media guys were certain William Wesley wielded power with Lebron.

Well, they were wrong.

Again, you're going off sources--which is fine--but then you're taking that beyond what it's worth to make larger accusations. At least that's the way it comes off.

which has hurt the team unnecessarily.

He could come back feeling odd and hurt the team. He could come back unsure of how far to push what he's feeling and be tentative. He could have a compensation injury that makes him hurt the team with his play. He could have a compensation injury that hurts his summer rehab plans. Whether it be summer league or what. And then in turn it might affect next season's start.

All of this is to say: we just dont know.

100% we can never know, no. This doesn't stop our forum of course. But we do have a mountain of evidence suggesting certain avenues or likelihoods, and more evidence that suggests an ugly lack of good reasoning reality more than a simple innocent coincidence.

Anyone who wants to step back to the 'only god knows' hands off angle, much like Derrick himself has ran for cover to, I'm fine with that. Just don't expect the rest of us that want to get to the bottom of this to ignore a billowing bonfire worth of smoke suggesting that that bottom is not a very pretty one.

[DaMayor73]

Why do you refuse to be truthful?

Rose had physical discomfort over the course of his rehab. He has said he is now healthy.

He has not described any "mental discomfort."

I believe you might want to consult the dictionary again in your use of the term "conspiracy theory." His own manager came out and said this. It's not like it's been invented by fans.

No, his brother said a bunch of nonsense and the fans took that and ran with it. It's kind of like how all conpriracy theories start.

And Rose has absolutely said he is mentally not ready yet.

[panthermark]

Wong. I have no timeline. Would I like for him to be healthy and play? Sure. But I have no arbitrary date set up for him to return. When he is healthy, he will play. It really is that simple for me.

No, that isn't the question.

Will you be OK if we get to the start of next season, and Rose is still sitting becuase he isn't mentally ready?

Not "will you accept it"...that is a different question. We will all have to "accept it"....the question is..will you be fine with it...or will you say..WTF..it has been 18 months since you tore your ACL...and you still are not ready?

If your answer is..."hey...lay off of him...he isn't ready....when he plays he plays"...that you are either lying, are you are the outlier in terms of resonableness, thus making your argument a bit moot.

[AirP.]

And Rose has absolutely said he is mentally not ready yet.

Yes we know that, he said it almost 2 months ago.

[DaMayor73]

Wong. I have no timeline. Would I like for him to be healthy and play? Sure. But I have no arbitrary date set up for him to return. When he is healthy, he will play. It really is that simple for me.

No, that isn't the question.

Will you be OK if we get to the start of next season, and Rose is still sitting becuase he isn't mentally ready?

Not "will you accept it"...that is a different question. We will all have to "accept it"....the question is..will you be fine with it...or will you say..WTF..it has been 18 months since you tore your ACL...and you still are not ready?

If your answer is..."hey...lay off of him...he isn't ready....when he plays he plays"...that you are either lying, are you are the outlier in terms of resonableness, thus making your argument a bit moot.

So either I am lying or I don't meet your terms of resonableness? Blakc or white, huh? No shades of gray? Sort of like you vehemence about Rose and his injury, no? All black or white. No gray area.

[DaMayor73]

And Rose has absolutely said he is mentally not ready yet.

Yes we know that, he said it almost 2 months ago.

So why would that statement still not be true today?

[Rerisen]

Sam Smith indicated on a radio interview this week (I believe on the Score, if I recall) that the Bulls want to just announce a shut-down, but Team Rose prefers they leave it open.

They have no good options at this point, its true, but his 'Team' saves themselves pressure and blame, and offloads it onto Derrick individually, by leaving it open.

If he is declared out, then people stop the minute to minute pressure on Derrick to play each and every game, and start looking much harder at Reggie, BJ and people in his circle who will have been presumed (likely correctly) to have made that call.

This is a case for the saying 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'. These people may have good intentions for Derrick, what they think is best for his health, what they think is best for his career (making a decision they hope will result in management getting him a better team down the line), but none of it holds up very well when you think it all the way through. They are doing him far more harm than good at this point.

[AirP.]

And Rose has absolutely said he is mentally not ready yet.

Yes we know that, he said it almost 2 months ago.

So why would that statement still not be true today?

Sure, and why might that statement not be true for the 2015-2016 season?

[AirP.]

Hate to tell people this but just because you have a "concern" doesn't mean it's reasonable. Sometimes you just have to trust the people who make a living at repairing people.

[DaMayor73]

Sure, and why might that statement not be true for the 2015-2016 season?

Maybe it will be. Who knows? I don't profess to know the future. But I am saying a statement from 2 months ago is still relevant today. You are saying that statement may still be relevent 2 years from now. Now how would we know that?