NBA Finals Thread / Around The NBA In The Offseason

Polynice4Pippen · Post #1241 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:17 am

Chitownbulls wrote:How doesn't Kabongo get drafted? Don't understand that one

Yeah, he's a legit talent. Don't know if he'll be able to stand out with Miami at PG though with Chalmers and Cole (and LeBron) already there.

the ultimates · Post #1242 » by **the ultimates** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:04 am

How quickly things change the flavor of the month used to be the Pacers know its the Nets. The Bulls matchup very well with a Brooklyn team that will strictly be playing in the half court. The only scoring the Nets have off the bench is Terry who didn't make any impact in Boston and will be 36. With Derrick coming back and Butler developing nicely I can't wait to see the Bulls take down the vastly overrated Pacers and now the Nets.

Just_Bullz · Post #1243 » by **Just_Bullz** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:49 am

The nets are legit in a half court style of play and that's about it.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #1244 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:03 am

the ultimates wrote:How quickly things change the flavor of the month used to be the Pacers know its the Nets. The Bulls matchup very well with a Brooklyn team that will strictly be playing in the half court. The only scoring the Nets have off the bench is Terry who didn't make any impact in Boston and will be 36. With Derrick coming back and Butler developing nicely I can't wait to see the Bulls take down the vastly overrated Pacers and now the Nets.

If the Pacers can trade for an all-star caliber guard (using Granger as bait) and the Bulls stand pat, Indiana probably wins the division again. Nothing overrated about them. Brooklyn on the other hand is a 50/50 proposition. If somehow healthy for the playoffs, they're a serious threat. No team has THREE top line perimeter defenders to handle Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Any mismatch they have (like a D Will vs. Chalmers) they can exploit one on one continuously. And Garnett and Lopez will control the defensive paint. But ALL of those guys get hurt all the time now. No way that team is fully healthy and fresh by next April/May.

the ultimates · Post #1245 » by **the ultimates** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:41 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
the ultimates wrote:How quickly things change the flavor of the month used to be the Pacers know its the Nets. The Bulls matchup very well with a Brooklyn team that will strictly be playing in the half court. The only scoring the Nets have off the bench is Terry who didn't make any impact in Boston and will be 36. With Derrick coming back and Butler developing nicely I can't wait to see the Bulls take down the vastly overrated Pacers and now the Nets.

If the Pacers can trade for an all-star caliber guard (using Granger as bait) and the Bulls stand pat, Indiana probably wins the division again. Nothing overrated about them. Brooklyn on the other hand is a 50/50 proposition. If somehow healthy for the playoffs, they're a serious threat. No team has THREE top line perimeter defenders to handle Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Any mismatch they have (like a D Will vs. Chalmers) they can exploit one on one continuously. And Garnett and Lopez will control the defensive paint. But ALL of those guys get hurt all the time now. No way that team is fully healthy and fresh by next April/May.

Rose, Butler and Deng are more than capable of defending Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Both Johnson and Pierce have shot the ball horribly over their last two years in the playoffs. Even if they move Granger for an upgrade at guard how will they resign West who made 10 million last season or what about inevitable George extension.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #1246 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:04 am

the ultimates wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
the ultimates wrote:How quickly things change the flavor of the month used to be the Pacers know its the Nets. The Bulls matchup very well with a Brooklyn team that will strictly be playing in the half court. The only scoring the Nets have off the bench is Terry who didn't make any impact in Boston and will be 36. With Derrick coming back and Butler developing nicely I can't wait to see the Bulls take down the vastly overrated Pacers and now the Nets.

If the Pacers can trade for an all-star caliber guard (using Granger as bait) and the Bulls stand pat, Indiana probably wins the division again. Nothing overrated about them. Brooklyn on the other hand is a 50/50 proposition. If somehow healthy for the playoffs, they're a serious threat. No team has THREE top line perimeter defenders to handle Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Any mismatch they have (like a D Will vs. Chalmers) they can exploit one on one continuously. And Garnett and Lopez will control the defensive paint. But ALL of those guys get hurt all the time now. No way that team is fully healthy and fresh by next April/May.

Rose, Butler and Deng are more than capable of defending Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Both Johnson and Pierce have shot the ball horribly over their last two years in the playoffs. Even if they move Granger for an upgrade at guard how will they resign West who made 10 million last season or what about inevitable George extension.

If the Bulls start Rose/But;er/Deng then yes, they are one of the few teams that could defend Brooklyn's perimeter well. But at the end of games (again IF HEALTHY) Brooklyn would have a substantial advantage over the Bulls with 3 legit perimeter playmakers who have all taken over playoff games and carried teams down the stretch. The Bulls would have one. But as I stated in my original post, I don't believe Brooklyn's gonna stay healthy so it's probably irrelevant.

As for Indiana, I don't know what their front office plans are. But if they bring back George/West/Hibbert on the front court along with an all-star guard (maybe a Rondo), and the Bulls stand pat, there's no question they are better than the Bulls.

the ultimates · Post #1247 » by **the ultimates** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:34 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
If the Pacers can trade for an all-star caliber guard (using Granger as bait) and the Bulls stand pat, Indiana probably wins the division again. Nothing overrated about them. Brooklyn on the other hand is a 50/50 proposition. If somehow healthy for the playoffs, they're a serious threat. No team has THREE top line perimeter defenders to handle Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Any mismatch they have (like a D Will vs. Chalmers) they can exploit one on one continuously. And Garnett and Lopez will control the defensive paint. But ALL of those guys get hurt all the time now. No way that team is fully healthy and fresh by next April/May.

Rose, Butler and Deng are more than capable of defending Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Both Johnson and Pierce have shot the ball horribly over their last two years in the playoffs. Even if they move Granger for an upgrade at guard how will they resign West who made 10 million last season or what about inevitable George extension.

If the Bulls start Rose/But;er/Deng then yes, they are one of the few teams that could defend Brooklyn's perimeter well. But at the end of games (again IF HEALTHY) Brooklyn would have a substantial advantage over the Bulls with 3 legit perimeter playmakers who have all taken over playoff games and carried teams down the stretch. The Bulls would have one. But as I stated in my original post, I don't believe Brooklyn's gonna stay healthy so it's probably irrelevant.

As for Indiana, I don't know what their front office plans are. But if they bring back George/West/Hibbert on the front court along with an all-star guard (maybe a Rondo), and the Bulls stand pat, there's no question they are better than the Bulls.

I don't see Indiana having anything of value to get Rondo. The Pacers can't pay everybody. West wants to resign but he hasn't said he take a pay cut. I'll play devils advocate and say they trade Granger and bring in a backcourt up grade making $12-15 million each season. They don't have the money to keep Hibbert's max deal, George who people think will get the max, West and whatever long term max or near max deal they get in return possibly for Granger.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #1248 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:55 am

the ultimates wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
Rose, Butler and Deng are more than capable of defending Williams, Johnson and Pierce. Both Johnson and Pierce have shot the ball horribly over their last two years in the playoffs. Even if they move Granger for an upgrade at guard how will they resign West who made 10 million last season or what about inevitable George extension.

If the Bulls start Rose/But;er/Deng then yes, they are one of the few teams that could defend Brooklyn's perimeter well. But at the end of games (again IF HEALTHY) Brooklyn would have a substantial advantage over the Bulls with 3 legit perimeter playmakers who have all taken over playoff games and carried teams down the stretch. The Bulls would have one. But as I stated in my original post, I don't believe Brooklyn's gonna stay healthy so it's probably irrelevant.

As for Indiana, I don't know what their front office plans are. But if they bring back George/West/Hibbert on the front court along with an all-star guard (maybe a Rondo), and the Bulls stand pat, there's no question they are better than the Bulls.

I don't see Indiana having anything of value to get Rondo. The Pacers can't pay everybody. West wants to resign but he hasn't said he take a pay cut. I'll play devils advocate and say they trade Granger and bring in a backcourt up grade making $12-15 million each season. They don't have the money to keep Hibbert's max deal, George who people think will get the max, West and whatever long term max or near max deal they get in return possibly for Granger.

Boston is having a fire sale, everything must go. They're rebuilding and tanking for the 2014 draft and Wiggins. An expiring contract like Granger and a crap load of picks for Rondo could easily do the trick.

It very well may turn out the way you described it for Indiana financially. But Indiana is just as close to being a clear step above the Bulls and probably dethroning Miami if they make a big move and we don't. Banking on them not being able to pull it off isn't a strategy I'm comfortable with.

the ultimates · Post #1249 » by **the ultimates** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:14 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
If the Bulls start Rose/But;er/Deng then yes, they are one of the few teams that could defend Brooklyn's perimeter well. But at the end of games (again IF HEALTHY) Brooklyn would have a substantial advantage over the Bulls with 3 legit perimeter playmakers who have all taken over playoff games and carried teams down the stretch. The Bulls would have one. But as I stated in my original post, I don't believe Brooklyn's gonna stay healthy so it's probably irrelevant.

As for Indiana, I don't know what their front office plans are. But if they bring back George/West/Hibbert on the front court along with an all-star guard (maybe a Rondo), and the Bulls stand pat, there's no question they are better than the Bulls.

I don't see Indiana having anything of value to get Rondo. The Pacers can't pay everybody. West wants to resign but he hasn't said he take a pay cut. I'll play devils advocate and say they trade Granger and bring in a backcourt up grade making $12-15 million each season. They don't have the money to keep Hibbert's max deal, George who people think will get the max, West and whatever long term max or near max deal they get in return possibly for Granger.

Boston is having a fire sale, everything must go. They're rebuilding and tanking for the 2014 draft and Wiggins. An expiring contract like Granger and a crap load of picks for Rondo could easily do the trick.

It very well may turn out the way you described it for Indiana financially. But Indiana is just as close to being a clear step above the Bulls and probably dethroning Miami if they make a big move and we don't. Banking on them not being able to pull it off isn't a strategy I'm comfortable with.

Boston moving two aging and very high priced vets is totally different than moving an elite point guard like Rondo once he is healthy and in form. If Rondo gets moved Boston will maximize his value and not take pennies on the dollar. They would get much better value than Granger and some low first round draft picks. Even though it was a weak draft class Holiday got traded for the number six overall pick and a first rounder that's only top five protected next year. I just don't see the Pacers having the money or assets to make that one more move to take them up another level. Plus it seems that under this CBA the value of expiring deals isn't what it used to be.

Polynice4Pippen · Post #1250 » by **Polynice4Pippen** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:30 am

the ultimates wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
I don't see Indiana having anything of value to get Rondo. The Pacers can't pay everybody. West wants to resign but he hasn't said he take a pay cut. I'll play devils advocate and say they trade Granger and bring in a backcourt up grade making $12-15 million each season. They don't have the money to keep Hibbert's max deal, George who people think will get the max, West and whatever long term max or near max deal they get in return possibly for Granger.

Boston is having a fire sale, everything must go. They're rebuilding and tanking for the 2014 draft and Wiggins. An expiring contract like Granger and a crap load of picks for Rondo could easily do the trick.

It very well may turn out the way you described it for Indiana financially. But Indiana is just as close to being a clear step above the Bulls and probably dethroning Miami if they make a big move and we don't. Banking on them not being able to pull it off isn't a strategy I'm comfortable with.

Boston moving two aging and very high priced vets is totally different than moving an elite point guard like Rondo once he is healthy and in form. If Rondo gets moved Boston will maximize his value and not take pennies on the dollar. They would get much better value than Granger and some low first round draft picks. Even though it was a weak draft class Holiday got traded for the number six overall pick and a first rounder that's only top five protected next year. I just don't see the Pacers having the money or assets to make that one more move to take them up another level. Plus it seems that under this CBA the value of expiring deals isn't what it used to be.

I get your point, but Boston was also quick to let Doc Rivers go. If Boston wanted to keep Rondo happy I don't think essentially trading Doc to L.A. is going to do it. He isn't at the end of his career like Garnett and Pierce, Doc has plenty of good years left, he's an elite, championship coach. Ainge is dismantling this thing and starting over. Maybe Boston will get more for Rondo than Indiana has to offer, but it's not like they'll get fair value. They'll want cap space and picks, maybe a young prospect or 2, but no one good enough to prevent them from tanking.

Also, let's not forget Larry Bird is back in charge in Indiana. Those old Celtics like doing deals with each other. McHale sent Garnett to Ainge in Boston. Wouldn't surprise me to see Ainge send Rondo to Bird in Indiana. Plus, Ainge HATES the Heat and Pat Riley, even more so after they grabbed Ray Allen. I don't put it past him for a moment to help another Eastern Conference team improve their roster in order to take down Miami. He already did it with Brooklyn.

Bottom line, Rondo will probably be moved, and Indiana has a legit shot at getting him. And if they do, they may just win it all. That's really all I'm saying.

dumbell78 · Post #1251 » by **dumbell78** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:24 am

Polynice4Pippen wrote:
the ultimates wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
Boston is having a fire sale, everything must go. They're rebuilding and tanking for the 2014 draft and Wiggins. An expiring contract like Granger and a crap load of picks for Rondo could easily do the trick.

It very well may turn out the way you described it for Indiana financially. But Indiana is just as close to being a clear step above the Bulls and probably dethroning Miami if they make a big move and we don't. Banking on them not being able to pull it off isn't a strategy I'm comfortable with.

Boston moving two aging and very high priced vets is totally different than moving an elite point guard like Rondo once he is healthy and in form. If Rondo gets moved Boston will maximize his value and not take pennies on the dollar. They would get much better value than Granger and some low first round draft picks. Even though it was a weak draft class Holiday got traded for the number six overall pick and a first rounder that's only top five protected next year. I just don't see the Pacers having the money or assets to make that one more move to take them up another level. Plus it seems that under this CBA the value of expiring deals isn't what it used to be.

I get your point, but Boston was also quick to let Doc Rivers go. If Boston wanted to keep Rondo happy I don't think essentially trading Doc to L.A. is going to do it. He isn't at the end of his career like Garnett and Pierce, Doc has plenty of good years left, he's an elite, championship coach. Ainge is dismantling this thing and starting over. Maybe Boston will get more for Rondo than Indiana has to offer, but it's not like they'll get fair value. They'll want cap space and picks, maybe a young prospect or 2, but no one good enough to prevent them from tanking.

Also, let's not forget Larry Bird is back in charge in Indiana. Those old Celtics like doing deals with each other. McHale sent Garnett to Ainge in Boston. Wouldn't surprise me to see Ainge send Rondo to Bird in Indiana. Plus, Ainge HATES the Heat and Pat Riley, even more so after they grabbed Ray Allen. I don't put it past him for a moment to help another Eastern Conference team improve their roster in order to take down Miami. He already did it with Brooklyn.

Bottom line, Rondo will probably be moved, and Indiana has a legit shot at getting him. And if they do, they may just win it all. That's really all I'm saying.

This is exactly what Im afraid of and see Ainge sticking it to the Heat again with a trade to a rival of theirs. He just sent KG and PP to a team in his own division, he would love to send Rondo to Indy and help old buddy Larry in the process beat the Heat. Grangers expiring contract and some filler could be enough for the Celtics. If that move happens I think they have a great chance to jump ahead of us in the east.

SteelerSpartan · Post #1252 » by **SteelerSpartan** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:42 am

the nets...meh....but Rondo on the Pacers would be a problem

bullsaficianado · Post #1253 » by **bullsaficianado** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:11 pm

Boston needs to just totally go into full tank mode now. I could see them holding onto Rondo to please the fans, etc but it's not fair to him if they are rebuilding. I would be surprised if he wasn't traded before the season starts, and yes hiring Vinny Del Negro as head coach is now a good idea for Boston, not sure if Vinny wants to coach a rebuilding team though.

TheStig · Post #1254 » by **TheStig** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:48 pm

I think Boston is going to look to rebuild around Rondo, Green and picks. They'll start to shed contracts like Wallace, Bass and Lee to build cap space. I wouldn't be surprised if they held Rondo out most of the year to tank. If they dump a guy or two, get a lotto pick and have cap space after next year, they could be in a good spot.

Chitownbulls · Post #1255 » by **Chitownbulls** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:09 pm

I heard a rumor that Rondo was calling up Dwight and Josh Smith trying to get them to join him in Boston. From Hoopshype...probably just a rumor though

MrSparkle · Post #1256 » by **MrSparkle** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:54 am

First off, Boston is in prime position to SUCK next year. They should VERY slowly bring Rondo back onto the court. In fact, they might as well let him do a D-Rose.

If they come out with Parker or Wiggins, that's a good team looking forward. No Rondo trade necessary, because they'll be in the playoffs, unless someone wants to overpay for a PG with a torn ACL whose one of the worst shooters in the game.

Nobody's making note of this, but Brooklyn is sending 2016 and 2018 1sts to Boston, plus a 2017 swap. I'm sorry, but was Isiah Thomas not enough of a clinic to ever prevent a team from doing this again? I mean, KG/PP/Terry are going to be in their 40s by the time those picks are given away.. That's a pretty massive gamble. Sounds like the 2000s Knicks ALL over again.

This Nets team is going to have a 2-year window-- no, ONE and a HALF-- and honestly, they're about 2 good rotation players away from being competitive. They need some freaking speed and athleticism.. Miami is going to run them out the building.

lemonmellow · Post #1257 » by **lemonmellow** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:29 am

MrSparkle wrote:This Nets team is going to have a 2-year window-- no, ONE and a HALF-- and honestly, they're about 2 good rotation players away from being competitive. They need some freaking speed and athleticism.. Miami is going to run them out the building.

What's the alternative? Stand pat and get destroyed out the building by Miami?

Prokhorov set a maximum window of five years for a championship. He's got two years left. The Nets are making the only moves available to bring them anywhere near that goal.

This guy isn't worried about first rounders. He's willing to spend to bring the best talent through free agency. It's cold-blooded, win now. There is no later.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au3hkZZpVM4[/youtube]

Post #1258 » by **kingkirk** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:17 pm

lemonmellow wrote:
This guy isn't worried about first rounders. He's willing to spend to bring the best talent through free agency. It's cold-blooded, win now. There is no later.

Is it really cold blooded though?

He has completely mortgaged their future for a 2 year window, which to me is even questionable if its a 'championship window', given the players that came in where 37, 36 & 35.

If he went and pulled a trade scenario like Boston did in 08, and brought guys in whilst still hovering around their better years, then i'd agree its cold blooded, but im not sure if this is.

Hangtime84 · Post #1259 » by **Hangtime84** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:43 pm

KingCuban wrote:
BIGGIEsmalls 23 wrote:Just because you guys got a fancy new moderator thingy under your usernames doesn't mean you had to change your Avatar, Cubes

I thought it was an opportune time given the new moderator tag to give my profile a little tszuj, if you know what i mean...

Cuban name change do it! Just like ikk

Post #1260 » by **kingkirk** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:46 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:
KingCuban wrote:
BIGGIEsmalls 23 wrote:Just because you guys got a fancy new moderator thingy under your usernames doesn't mean you had to change your Avatar, Cubes

I thought it was an opportune time given the new moderator tag to give my profile a little tszuj, if you know what i mean...

Cuban name change do it! Just like ikk

Back to kingkirk?

Forgive me for not picking up on what ikk is, but i've been more mental than Billy King of late...