Reggie Rose rips Bulls' inactivity

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

The way the last month of "thereturn" has been handled has left a bad taste in my mouth. These comments from Reggie Rose remind me of the way Lebron looked at his teams in Cleveland. The rest of the roster is a lot better than those Cleveland teams. Up until this last month there was never a reason for anything negative to be said about rose outside of his SAT scandal. He was the golden child of Chicago. I wish Reggie would have acknowledge his little brothers unwillingness to call anyone to recruit them to play in Chicago during the summer of 2010.

The only positive to take away from this situation is that maybe this lights some fire under the FO to get something done.

The whole Rose calling LBJ, Wade and Bosh is overblown and ludicrous. D.Rose wanted Joe Johnson hell Joe Johnson was here popping bottles talking about being a member of the Bulls about a week before ATL gave him a max deal. Rose's ideal summer was Joe Johnson and David Lee. He was also a fan of Anthony Morrow. Those were his guys and to be honest with those two guys I think the Bulls have a ring today.

Exactly.

Fans are funny and fickle though, it's amazing how condescending and rude some of you all can be behind a computer. Who are you all to call someone dumb or ignorant? It just doesn't make sense. I've never been so disturbed reading this board before.

Yea, some bottled up feelings about D-Rose are coming out in this thread.

The dumb ghetto basketball player & his dumb ghetto brother have absolutely no right to question the direction of this team. How dare they question authority?

[johnnyvann840]

My favorite thing about this now is how it plays out. If Rose comes back and the Bulls lose, it's a SEE, NOT ENOUGH argument. If Rose comes back and wins, the discussion is OMG, THEY WERE OK WITH ROSE BUT THEY WON A TITLE WITH HIM, ALL TIME GREAT. If they lose and don't add anyone, they can say "SEE, WE TOLD YOU" and if they go out and add someone, it's "THANKS FOR LISTENING"

No matter what happens, you can't blame Derrick and you can credit him.

exactly.

the problem is his image has taken a major hit.

DanTown, spot on. That is the purpose. It's a CYA blanket statement that can't lose in the end. If Derrick plays and the Bulls fail... Reggie's right.. see!! If they win or even make the ECF.. it's "Derrick is a HOFer, look what he did with the crap they gave him".

Let me just add this... you may or may not agree but a big problem is, as much as people want to spout that these guys are pros and they shouldn't be affected by these statements, they can be and they are. They are human. It's like a man or woman going through a tough divorce (that was initiated by their spouse), they feel like they are no longer appreciated, they are a failure somehow, some way, they are no longer wanted, and you can bet your ass it will change the way they perform, their confidence level, their mindset and the results they get in most everything they do. If the players that Derrick is "not happy with the team", they all wonder if it's them, is it the guy next to him? Am I the weak link in our leader's eyes? Who is? The whole team's psyche, It becomes a convoluted mess.

[Ice the knees]

I think there is a serious lack of appreciation for Rose's position.

The guy was born in this town and his brand needs this town. He cannot ask for a trade, ever. He is in the unique spot where the franchise has all the leverage...He needed to do something.

The fact that the Bulls pretty much patted him on the back, told him that Noah and Deng are good enough, and the big addition in 5 years has been Boozer would leave a bad taste in my mouth too.

Can he trust the FO or does he need to send a message? If the end result is a move to get real talent, not just glorified role players, then Rose wins...we all do.

[transplant]

^Nice post, Betta.

One other problem I had with R.Rose's statement is this:

"If Derrick comes back, they're going to sell more tickets. Is the reason for Derrick to come back to win a championship or make money? Right now, I don't believe a championship. Everything in the NBA is financial."

Given that Reggie is Derrick's "manager," this shows a basic lack of understanding that's a little scary. Whether Derrick returns this season or not will have no appreciable effect on UC tickets sold.

[Red Larrivee]

the problem is his image has taken a major hit.

No it hasn't. Nothing's changed with Derrick's image. But like the comments Wade made in 2010, Reggie might have put another black eye on the Bulls FO.

[Sonny_D1]

the possibility of Rose joining a buy-a-ring outfit is at an all-time high

Well Durant is also only 24, LeBron isn't human plus I wouldn't be surprised to see him take his show back to Cleveland and team up with a 21 year old Kyrie, so yeah, it will have to be something along those lines.

I know everyone loves this hard-nosed, overachieving, hard working lunch pail group we've got here in Chicago. Gives everyone a warm, fuzzy feeling. I've been saying all along that this team as constructed, while hard not to root for, just isn't going anywhere.

As I mentioned earlier, I welcome these comments. Not so much because I thought there was a deal there for us this time, and who really knows about years past, unfortunately we aren't privy to the inner workings and dealings of the NBA GM circles. I welcome these comments because imo, our front office is more reactive then they are proactive. I know others will argue against that notion but that's just the way I see it.

I think this office is (maybe was?) contempt with chugging along raking in the profits, waiting for the right deal to fall in their laps, at the right time, something within their financial constraints. See what happens with the Charlotte pick and wait on the Great Miritoc to arrive. Well guess what, Miritoc and this approach isn't going to cut it.

I welcome the comments if for no other reason than to put this front office on alert. Let's see some creativity here or at least "talk" of us pursuing various options. I welcome these comments because I'd like to see our face of the franchise player putting heat (no pun intended) on the front office.

The clock is ticking.

[johnnyvann840]

Awol? What are you talking about? And Joe Johnson is a legit playmaking guard at the 2 nothing like Deng really. I'm just telling you what I know Rose wanted out of 2010. And after seeing his growth that season I am inclined to believe that we would have beaten Miami with those two on the roster.

Joe Johnson was in the FO's plans and then ATL signed him to a $22 mil per contract maing him the highest paid player in the freaking NBA.. What the F were the Bulls supposed to do in this case?

[panthermark]

Red,
The Bulls didn't become contenders until 2010/2011, which was Rose's 3rd year in the league. And the deals done prior to/during the summer of 2010 was to clear cap space in order to build a contender. Bron/Wade/Bosh simply didn't come to Chicago.

The Bulls still went from a .500 team to a 60 win team.

Salary dumping Korver (and Brewer)? That had a lot to do with a new CBA and Rose's own contract going from $6.99M in 2010/2011 to $16.79M in 2012/2013. Rose's own salary took a $10M jump.

Not saying Rose isn't a max player, but as far as a salary cap goes...if you want the $10M back to keep Korver and Brewer, look in Rose's checking account. If you are saying they should have not signed Hinrich or Rip...that is a different story. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[nitetrain8603]

Along with the previously mentioned deals, the Bulls have not made one aggressive trade this century. You want examples of what they could've done, it's trading for Dwight Howard without an extension guarantee. It's trading Noah for Harden and keeping Asik. It's trading Deng while his value is at an all time high.

The Bulls are acting like OKC, but without the smarts or willingness to take risks. If you didn't think you had enough with Derrick and you're without him for most of the season, and want to get some young cheap blood in here, do it right. Dump Noah, Boozer, Deng, don't sign a guy like Hinrich, let go of Asik, Korver, Brewer, do not resign Taj to a longterm extension and start over.

Sign guys like Mayo if you're unable to get Harden. Chances are, you would get something great for Noah, Deng and CHA's 1st which we are still like 3 seasons away from(Derrick will be what? 28 before that mythical superstar can even begin his career?), you make trades like Noah, picks and filler for Melo. Again, you go after Dwight.

The Bulls didn't want to do that because they still want to sell tickets and they aren't creative at all as well as Pax falling in love with his own players.

I have nothing against Reggie's timing or message. It needed to be said.

[jumpmanjay]

Again, for those asking "who should the Bulls have got that they didn't?" It's not really that. It's about the mentality of the FO and the type of deals they've made for 10 years under Paxson. Here are all the notable non-draft related deals made by Paxson:

2003:
-Traded guard Jalen Rose and forwards Donyell Marshall and Lonny Baxter to the Toronto Raptors for forwards Jerome Williams, Antonio Davis and Chris Jefferies.
-Traded guard Roger Mason to the Toronto Raptors for guard Rick Brunson.

2004:
-Re-signed guard Jamal Crawford and traded him with forward Jerome Williams to the New York Knicks for guard Frank Williams, forward Othella Harrington and centers Dikembe Mutombo and Cezary Trybanski.

2005
- Re-signed center Eddy Curry and traded him along with forward Antonio Davis to the New York Knicks for guard Jermaine Jackson, forwards Tim Thomas and Mike Sweetney, a 2006 first-round pick, second-round picks in 2007 and 2009 and a conditional right to swap 2007 first-round picks.

2006
-Traded forward Tyson Chandler to the New Orleans Hornets for guard JR Smith and forward PJ Brown.
-Traded guard JR Smith to the Denver Nuggets for guard Howard Eisley and two 2007 second-round picks.

2008
-Traded forwards Joe Smith and Ben Wallace and a 2009 second-round pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers and forward Adrian Griffin to the Seattle SuperSonics for guards Larry Hughes and Shannon Brown and forwards Drew Gooden and Cedric Simmons.

2009
-Traded forwards Drew Gooden, Andres Nocioni, Cedric Simmons and Michael Ruffin to the Sacramento Kings for center Brad Miller and guard John Salmons.
-Traded guard Larry Hughes to the New York Knicks for guard Anthony Roberson, forward Tim Thomas and center Jerome James. Traded guard Thabo Sefolosha to the Oklahoma City Thunder for a conditional 2009 first-round pick.

2010
-Traded guard John Salmons and 2011 and 2012 second-round picks to the Milwaukee Bucks for forwards Hakim Warrick and Joe Alexander
-Traded forward Tyrus Thomas to the Charlotte Bobcats for guards Ronald Murray and Acie Law and a future first-round pick
- Traded guard Kirk Hinrich, the draft rights to forward Kevin Seraphin and cash to the Washington Wizards for the draft rights to forward Vladimir Veremeenko.

2012
-Traded guard Kyle Korver to the Atlanta Hawks for a traded player exception

----

How many of these deals were aimed to make the Bulls a better basketball team and not dump a player that was disgruntled, the Bulls lost faith in, or a deal that was financially-inspired?

You could maybe make a case for Eddy Curry, but the idiocy and ineptitude of Isiah Thomas made that deal a once-in-a-lifetime robbery.

Someone will mention the Nocioni/Gooden for Salmons/Miller deal, but that was deal was to get out of Nocioni's huge contract and get shorter contracts. The Bulls had no idea that Salmons and Miller would do what they did for that half a season.

All of the deals above are salary dumps. Anything else they got from it was a bonus. That's Reggie's point. This team does not make deals like a big market team and rarely, if ever, makes basketball deals.

im going to ignore everything prior to 2008 since everything we did up until that point led us to derrick in the first place.

-thabo turned into taj. that worked out well for us.
-tyrus turned into our charlotte pick. that worked out well for us. (how has tyrus been since then?)
-need to dump kirk to go after the 2010 FA class. if we refused to dump kirk to make that attempt, the backlash would be 100x more severe. at least we tried our best.
-kyle- ill give you that one, that pissed me off, although i understand why. (we need kirk more than kyle right now)
-omer- that one too, although i understand why. (the new CBA shafted us more than any team)

[WinCity]

My favorite thing about this now is how it plays out. If Rose comes back and the Bulls lose, it's a SEE, NOT ENOUGH argument. If Rose comes back and wins, the discussion is OMG, THEY WERE OK WITH ROSE BUT THEY WON A TITLE WITH HIM, ALL TIME GREAT. If they lose and don't add anyone, they can say "SEE, WE TOLD YOU" and if they go out and add someone, it's "THANKS FOR LISTENING"

No matter what happens, you can't blame Derrick and you can credit him.

exactly.

the problem is his image has taken a major hit.

DanTown, spot on. That is the purpose. It's a CYA blanket statement that can't lose in the end. If Derrick plays and the Bulls fail... Reggie's right.. see!! If they win or even make the ECF.. it's "Derrick is a HOFer, look what he did with the crap they gave him".

Let me just add this... you may or may not agree but a big problem is, as much as people want to spout that these guys are pros and they shouldn't be affected by these statements, they can be and they are. They are human. It's like a man or woman going through a tough divorce (that was initiated by their spouse), they feel like they are no longer appreciated, they are a failure somehow, some way, they are no longer wanted, and you can bet your ass it will change the way they perform, their confidence level, their mindset and the results they get in most everything they do. If the players that Derrick is "not happy with the team", they all wonder if it's them, is it the guy next to him? Am I the weak link in our leader's eyes? Who is? The whole team's psyche, It becomes a convoluted mess.

I agree. I thought it was pretty damn cunning to let Reggie go out there and say it. I disagree that Derricks image has taken a huge hit though. He will come back and play this season. Meantime he continues to have the cover of his rehab and being extra cautious to explain why he is not back yet even though he is likely already 100%. He can distance himself from Reggie, without outright throwing his brother under the bus as no one would expect, and still get his point across to the FO.

[coldfish]

This front office man I tell you. Let's get it right this time Gar/Pax. Bulls nation is depending on you.

OK, let's think about this. The Bulls just can't go up to Minnesota and say "Hey, Reggie Rose isn't happy. We are going to have to take Kevin Love from you."

An opportunity has to come up.

What Cleveland did is they ignored reality. They just decided that they had to keep Lebron happy so they did the first thing available to them. End result? Larry Hughes for $12M per year and the corpse of Antawn Jamison.

The Bulls can't do that or at least, I hope they don't. As such, we need a little patience.

That being said, the next time a top 15 player becomes available, the Bulls need to:
- Be in a position to take on salary by having expiring contracts
- Be willing to part with a ton outside of Rose and Noah
If Love gets traded and the Bulls don't get him, I'm going to be leading the mob. I'm not going to throw the team under the bus for missing out on JJ Reddick and his expiring contract.

[RedBulls23]

i agree that list sucks and does not put us as favorites.
even if we traded noah for harden, we would not win that trade. imho, that trade would make okc the clear favorites in the league, and we would be left with no center.

Not if we did Noah and cats pick for Harden and Perkins and matched Asik (Obviously contracts would have to match). Asik/Perskins, Deng, Boozer, Harden and Rose is a better team then we have now IMO.

But that point is moot because there is no evidence that shows the Thunder wanted to trade Harden for anything other than another sg to replace him and at least some of his scoring ability.

[CalilLove89]

I think there is a serious lack of appreciation for Rose's position.

The guy was born in this town and his brand needs this town. He cannot ask for a trade, ever. He is in the unique spot where the franchise has all the leverage...He needed to do something.

The fact that the Bulls pretty much patted him on the back, told him that Noah and Deng are good enough, and the big addition in 5 years has been Boozer would leave a bad taste in my mouth too.

Can he trust the FO or does he need to send a message? If the end result is a move to get real talent, not just glorified role players, then Rose wins...we all do.

There are plenty of teams, and fanbases that would love to have Rose, namely LA.

[LobosJordan]

Let's trade Derrick Rose. This guy made my son ask why doesn't he love his teammates anymore. This is just unacceptable from him to question the FO. Absolutely disgracefull. And asking his brother to do the talking for him. Talk about not fighting your own battles. Let's trade him and build around our two all stars Noah and Deng. These guys are Bulls for life, and are good characters as well unlike stupid failed SAT's Rose. Deng, Noah, and Taj will lead us to a championship. You wait and see Derrick, you wait and see.

/ green font

More seriously though, I think this is one of the best threads in a while. Nice viewpoints from both sides.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

This front office man I tell you. Let's get it right this time Gar/Pax. Bulls nation is depending on you.

OK, let's think about this. The Bulls just can't go up to Minnesota and say "Hey, Reggie Rose isn't happy. We are going to have to take Kevin Love from you."

[Red Larrivee]

-thabo turned into taj. that worked out well for us.
-tyrus turned into our charlotte pick. that worked out well for us. (how has tyrus been since then?)
-need to dump kirk to go after the 2010 FA class. if we refused to dump kirk to make that attempt, the backlash would be 100x more severe. at least we tried our best.
-kyle- ill give you that one, that pissed me off, although i understand why. (we need kirk more than kyle right now)
-omer- that one too, although i understand why. (the new CBA shafted us more than any team)

None of those deals made were deals designed around trading for a better basketball player at the time. Dumping Kirk was necessary for 2010, but it was more financially motivated to get under the cap more.

So again, I ask, when was the last time the Bulls made a basketball-motivated trade that was designed to make us better immediately? You don't think it's a bit strange that Paxson hasn't made a clear-cut non-draft related basketball deal in 10 years as the GM?

Not even just that, but the Bulls are Lovie Smith-Jerry Angelo-esque at their ineptitude in improving the one flaw that's held the Bulls back for 10 years: offense. They haven't improved it a lick. Lovie and Angelo got fired because of it. If Reinsdorf wasn't completely loyal to Paxson, things might've been shaken up here too.

[Ice the knees]

I think there is a serious lack of appreciation for Rose's position.

The guy was born in this town and his brand needs this town. He cannot ask for a trade, ever. He is in the unique spot where the franchise has all the leverage...He needed to do something.

The fact that the Bulls pretty much patted him on the back, told him that Noah and Deng are good enough, and the big addition in 5 years has been Boozer would leave a bad taste in my mouth too.

Can he trust the FO or does he need to send a message? If the end result is a move to get real talent, not just glorified role players, then Rose wins...we all do.

There are plenty of teams, and fanbases that would love to have Rose, namely LA.

Absolutely. I'm just saying that players use the "trade me" talk as a way to gain leverage. Rose really cannot go with that approach. Rose needs Chicago.

[coldfish]

Let's trade Derrick Rose. This guy made my son ask why doesn't he love his teammates anymore. This is just unacceptable from him to question the FO. Absolutely disgracefull. And asking his brother to do the talking for him. Talk about not fighting your own battles. Let's trade him and build around our two all stars Noah and Deng. These guys are Bulls for life, and are good characters as well unlike stupid failed SAT's Rose. Deng, Noah, and Taj will lead us to a championship. You wait and see Derrick, you wait and see.

If Rose is only 80% now 10 months after his injury, you are probably right. The guy to go should be Rose because you can get a lot more for him and there are some serious flags about his long term health. Combine that with his contract and its definitely a huge concern.

So, what do you think the Bulls should trade Rose for? Lottery picks? An established star?

[Blooming Rose]

The way the last month of "thereturn" has been handled has left a bad taste in my mouth. These comments from Reggie Rose remind me of the way Lebron looked at his teams in Cleveland. The rest of the roster is a lot better than those Cleveland teams. Up until this last month there was never a reason for anything negative to be said about rose outside of his SAT scandal. He was the golden child of Chicago. I wish Reggie would have acknowledge his little brothers unwillingness to call anyone to recruit them to play in Chicago during the summer of 2010.

The only positive to take away from this situation is that maybe this lights some fire under the FO to get something done.

The whole Rose calling LBJ, Wade and Bosh is overblown and ludicrous. D.Rose wanted Joe Johnson hell Joe Johnson was here popping bottles talking about being a member of the Bulls about a week before ATL gave him a max deal. Rose's ideal summer was Joe Johnson and David Lee. He was also a fan of Anthony Morrow. Those were his guys and to be honest with those two guys I think the Bulls have a ring today.

Exactly.

Fans are funny and fickle though, it's amazing how condescending and rude some of you all can be behind a computer. Who are you all to call someone dumb or ignorant? It just doesn't make sense. I've never been so disturbed reading this board before.

Yea, some bottled up feelings about D-Rose are coming out in this thread.

The dumb ghetto basketball player & his dumb ghetto brother have absolutely no right to question the direction of this team. How dare they question authority?

Big I totally agree. As an African-American who grew up modestly I think that many of the posters are out of line. I hate to make this a racial but just looking at this thread you can almost tell who’s who and who they really are. People don’t realize that Reggie is like Derrick’s father he Alan and Dwayne have helped to mold Derrick and helped him to survive and make it out of Englewood to become the man he is today. Derrick will never turn on Reggie, from Beasley to Simeon to Memphis, Reggie has always been there to guide Derrick, and would not do anything to intentionally harm him. What Reggie said is 100% true but because he is some “hood from the street who can’t read” he’s totally out of line.