Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

[MrFortune3]

Doug, your example of no franchise talent is like saying you're the fastest runner in a potato sack. That's nice but the Olympians are running circles around you. You've elminated everyone I'd want to be lol.

Well more like you have no Olympic talent but you have the best U20 team in the world.

Either way, I agree, I'd much rather be a team with a franchise talent, of course. However, they weren't a team I wanted to be prior to trading Westbrook and George. They were a team with talent that was obviously no where near good enough that was going to fade quickly. They pivoted away from that into a team that is much better positioned.

The Bulls are a team that I wouldn't want to be, I'd be absolutely floored and incredibly amped if we could improve our situation as much in one year as OKC did.

I have no idea what a U20 team is lol

See I disagree. I'd rather have a solid playoff team and ride that. Look at the Mavs. They had that type of team and eventually broke through. And they had a decade of being a solid playoff team even if they have stumbles like being beat by the 8th seed warriors. OKC made the Melo deal and obviously missed but they had some assets to take another swing. The problem was the cheap ass owner who wouldn't pay the LT for Harden didn't want to pay for a middling playoff team past a year. I think it's very hard to win in OKC and I would find it very doubtful they reach the finals in the next 20 years. I don't think a bunch of 20's picks will make them more than a 1st/2nd round loser they were with Russ/PG.

I think the Bulls will be just about as good as OKC next year. I think AK needs to be allowed to tank for a couple of years and get some draft capital. I hope he doesn't jump the process and try to turn us into the 8th seed. I think if you can get some draft capital, get a real good coach and shuffle the boards and shake out some assets, the Bulls will be back on track. My worry is that there will be a rush to the playoffs like there always is and we get the #10 pick.

U20 = Under 20.

They have Olympic squads like that. Futbol/Soccer has squads like that as well. As do European basketball teams.

If you look at a lot of Euro prospects draft profiles, they mention their play on U20 or U21 squads before being promoted to the main teams.

[Jimako10]

Im happy for the Nuggets, but they are going to get swept by the Lakers. At worse they will get the gentlemen sweep.

This has cinderella written all over it. This is George Mason making the final foul. Then they played Florida.

Its either you believe they actually are 1-3 bad for two series in a row or you believe they are an amazing team to come back twice.

Sorry I just cant put stock in a team that can consistently be down on the brink of elimination.

More interested in the East final but its going to be a nauseating Lebron talk for the next month.

As someone who put a futures bet on the Nuggets before the playoffs at 25-1, I COMPLETELY DISAGREE!!

I think the bubble and lack of HCA is a big disadvantage to the superstars in the league. The refereeing has actually been pretty good this year (aside from the Scott Foster games), and it probably has to do with the lack of pressure inside the bubble compared to 35 thousand fans yelling absurdities at you all game.

Prediction: Joker makes AD cry with several filthy hard screens, Murray completely ignores Rondo on defense as Rondo shoots 1-34 from deep. Nuggets win in 7!

[dougthonus]

See I disagree. I'd rather have a solid playoff team and ride that. Look at the Mavs. They had that type of team and eventually broke through.

Dirk was a legit franchise player, top 5 guy in the league. I mean, yeah I'd rather have a top 5 player in the league too.

OKC made the Melo deal and obviously missed but they had some assets to take another swing. The problem was the cheap ass owner who wouldn't pay the LT for Harden didn't want to pay for a middling playoff team past a year. I think it's very hard to win in OKC and I would find it very doubtful they reach the finals in the next 20 years. I don't think a bunch of 20's picks will make them more than a 1st/2nd round loser they were with Russ/PG.

I don't think it necessarily will either, but it was clear that Russ/PG weren't going to take them anywhere either. They were going to slowly dwindle into nothing.

Agree completely on them screwing up what should have been a dynasty by ditching Harden though.

I think the Bulls will be just about as good as OKC next year. I think AK needs to be allowed to tank for a couple of years and get some draft capital. I hope he doesn't jump the process and try to turn us into the 8th seed. I think if you can get some draft capital, get a real good coach and shuffle the boards and shake out some assets, the Bulls will be back on track. My worry is that there will be a rush to the playoffs like there always is and we get the #10 pick.

Tanking is a really low chance of success now with the new draft odds. I'd probably not be in a rush to make the playoffs, but I wouldn't purposefully lose either. I'd look to acquire as much long term talent on smart deals as I could.

[TheStig]

See I disagree. I'd rather have a solid playoff team and ride that. Look at the Mavs. They had that type of team and eventually broke through.

Dirk was a legit franchise player, top 5 guy in the league. I mean, yeah I'd rather have a top 5 player in the league too.

OKC made the Melo deal and obviously missed but they had some assets to take another swing. The problem was the cheap ass owner who wouldn't pay the LT for Harden didn't want to pay for a middling playoff team past a year. I think it's very hard to win in OKC and I would find it very doubtful they reach the finals in the next 20 years. I don't think a bunch of 20's picks will make them more than a 1st/2nd round loser they were with Russ/PG.

I don't think it necessarily will either, but it was clear that Russ/PG weren't going to take them anywhere either. They were going to slowly dwindle into nothing.

Agree completely on them screwing up what should have been a dynasty by ditching Harden though.

I think the Bulls will be just about as good as OKC next year. I think AK needs to be allowed to tank for a couple of years and get some draft capital. I hope he doesn't jump the process and try to turn us into the 8th seed. I think if you can get some draft capital, get a real good coach and shuffle the boards and shake out some assets, the Bulls will be back on track. My worry is that there will be a rush to the playoffs like there always is and we get the #10 pick.

Tanking is a really low chance of success now with the new draft odds. I'd probably not be in a rush to make the playoffs, but I wouldn't purposefully lose either. I'd look to acquire as much long term talent on smart deals as I could.

He really wasn't a top 5 most years. I see 3 years in his career. And definetely wasn't one immediately proceeding the title years. He was at 10 and 11 in MVP award shares.

001-02 NBA 0.025 (8)
2002-03 NBA 0.036 (7)
2003-04 NBA 0.003 (10)
2004-05 NBA 0.275 (3)
2005-06 NBA 0.435 (3)
2006-07 NBA 0.882 (1)
2007-08 NBA 0.004 (11)
2008-09 NBA 0.002 (10)
2009-10 NBA 0.045 (7)
2010-11 NBA 0.093 (6)
2011-12 NBA 0.003 (12)
2013-14 NBA 0.006 (14)

Here is Russ. Who was one 4 times.
11-12 NBA 0.003 (12)
2012-13 NBA 0.007 (9)
2014-15 NBA 0.271 (4)
2015-16 NBA 0.371 (4)
2016-17 NBA 0.879 (1)
2017-18 NBA 0.075 (5)
2018-19 NBA 0.008 (10)

PG was one once.
-14 NBA 0.026 (9)
2018-19 NBA 0.352 (3)

I think a Russ and PG base would have been a solid 2nd round team for years like the Mavs were. You just have to shift around and get the right personnel around them and hope for luck or a super hot streak to help you break through. Eventually all teams dwindle away and lose. That's a given. So I don't think that's a fair arguement. It's not like they were bad. They were a 48 and 49 win team in the west.

I don't think you need to be the 76ers. But I'd like them to focus on playing the young guys and less on getting vets in the rotation like Sato and Young. That to me is trying to jump the process when you trade for Porter and sign Sato and Young. You should get your vet by taking on a bad deal and a pick for your cap space.

[dougthonus]

Here is Russ. Who was one 4 times.
11-12 NBA 0.003 (12)
2012-13 NBA 0.007 (9)
2014-15 NBA 0.271 (4)
2015-16 NBA 0.371 (4)
2016-17 NBA 0.879 (1)
2017-18 NBA 0.075 (5)
2018-19 NBA 0.008 (10)

PG was one once.
-14 NBA 0.026 (9)
2018-19 NBA 0.352 (3)

I think a Russ and PG base would have been a solid 2nd round team for years like the Mavs were. You just have to shift around and get the right personnel around them and hope for luck or a super hot streak to help you break through. Eventually all teams dwindle away and lose. That's a given. So I don't think that's a fair arguement. It's not like they were bad. They were a 48 and 49 win team in the west.

They lost in the first round twice together. Both guys seem like they impact the game a lot less than their individual numbers as well. I have no confidence in the ability of anyone to build a team around either of those guys. Especially given that collectively they were like 70% of the salarycap.

I don't think you need to be the 76ers. But I'd like them to focus on playing the young guys and less on getting vets in the rotation like Sato and Young. That to me is trying to jump the process when you trade for Porter and sign Sato and Young. You should get your vet by taking on a bad deal and a pick for your cap space.

Yeah, I generally agree with you here. Picks haven't really come cheaply for salary recently. Some teams like Miami have found great success in trading for veteran players to improve their position.

I don't know that there is one unique strategy here. I was okay with Porter/Sato/Young moves, but not excited about them either. I do think a team needs some guys who are solid vets to help practices run better and keep the locker room stronger and help the young guys develop better. Only Thad was really a guy that projects to decline out of those guys. Porter obviously ended up being ****, but we got him and Sato in their primes where you could expect them to be here for 3-4 years.

One interesting thing about team building now is that the contract length is so short that you can't really look past 4 years in terms of what you're doing. Typically only superstars are guys that will be with your team longer than that.

[Ice Man]

He really wasn't a top 5 most years. I see 3 years in his career. And definetely wasn't one immediately proceeding the title years. He was at 10 and 11 in MVP award shares.

The myth that Dirk carried an average team to its 2011 title is widely accepted. That was a good squad, it won 57 games, and Dirk only once scored as many as 30 points in the Finals.

[MrFortune3]

He really wasn't a top 5 most years. I see 3 years in his career. And definetely wasn't one immediately proceeding the title years. He was at 10 and 11 in MVP award shares.

The myth that Dirk carried an average team to its 2011 title is widely accepted. That was a good squad, it won 57 games, and Dirk only once scored as many as 30 points in the Finals.

It was good to see Dirk get redemption after the failure of his first finals appearance.
That team was damn good though. I hated to see them break the team up to chase Howard.

[TheStig]

Here is Russ. Who was one 4 times.
11-12 NBA 0.003 (12)
2012-13 NBA 0.007 (9)
2014-15 NBA 0.271 (4)
2015-16 NBA 0.371 (4)
2016-17 NBA 0.879 (1)
2017-18 NBA 0.075 (5)
2018-19 NBA 0.008 (10)

PG was one once.
-14 NBA 0.026 (9)
2018-19 NBA 0.352 (3)

I think a Russ and PG base would have been a solid 2nd round team for years like the Mavs were. You just have to shift around and get the right personnel around them and hope for luck or a super hot streak to help you break through. Eventually all teams dwindle away and lose. That's a given. So I don't think that's a fair arguement. It's not like they were bad. They were a 48 and 49 win team in the west.

They lost in the first round twice together. Both guys seem like they impact the game a lot less than their individual numbers as well. I have no confidence in the ability of anyone to build a team around either of those guys. Especially given that collectively they were like 70% of the salarycap.

I don't think you need to be the 76ers. But I'd like them to focus on playing the young guys and less on getting vets in the rotation like Sato and Young. That to me is trying to jump the process when you trade for Porter and sign Sato and Young. You should get your vet by taking on a bad deal and a pick for your cap space.

Yeah, I generally agree with you here. Picks haven't really come cheaply for salary recently. Some teams like Miami have found great success in trading for veteran players to improve their position.

I don't know that there is one unique strategy here. I was okay with Porter/Sato/Young moves, but not excited about them either. I do think a team needs some guys who are solid vets to help practices run better and keep the locker room stronger and help the young guys develop better. Only Thad was really a guy that projects to decline out of those guys. Porter obviously ended up being ****, but we got him and Sato in their primes where you could expect them to be here for 3-4 years.

One interesting thing about team building now is that the contract length is so short that you can't really look past 4 years in terms of what you're doing. Typically only superstars are guys that will be with your team longer than that.

The Mavs lost in the first round 3 out of 4 years before the title and the 4th year they lost in the 2nd round. Dirk has actually lost in the first round 8 times. Add in 4 more 2nd round losses. His playoff record was not great. I obviously like Dirk much more than Russ. But Russ and PG are a nice duo that you can build solid playoff teams around. You just need the right supporting cast.

I just don't think you bring in vets like that to be key rotation pieces to try to eek out a playoff run. I'd rather see the young guys get a lot of run and figure out if they can be the guys. I think all the vets we've brought in had just lost us key position. I'd rather be the 3rd or 4th worst record with the young guys than the 7th or 8th with these vets. And if you do have these vets and you suck, trade them for something at the deadline. That and the coach were just gross mismanagement. The last few years just seemed like trying to be cheap and pushing for the playoffs.

[dougthonus]

The Mavs lost in the first round 3 out of 4 years before the title and the 4th year they lost in the 2nd round. Dirk has actually lost in the first round 8 times. Add in 4 more 2nd round losses. His playoff record was not great. I obviously like Dirk much more than Russ. But Russ and PG are a nice duo that you can build solid playoff teams around. You just need the right supporting cast.

It's a fair point, I just don't think much of Westbrook and his ability to drive significant winning. I don't think there is a right cast for him, because in the end, he doesn't fit well in the modern NBA as a non shooting, ball dominant player. Paul George is a guy I've never liked, he's generally not been that interesting a player for most of his career.

I just don't think you bring in vets like that to be key rotation pieces to try to eek out a playoff run. I'd rather see the young guys get a lot of run and figure out if they can be the guys. I think all the vets we've brought in had just lost us key position. I'd rather be the 3rd or 4th worst record with the young guys than the 7th or 8th with these vets. And if you do have these vets and you suck, trade them for something at the deadline. That and the coach were just gross mismanagement. The last few years just seemed like trying to be cheap and pushing for the playoffs.

I more or less agree with this. I would have done the same, especially because for the first couple years you had better lottery odds. Now I think it's a bit more up in the air. I don't think having that worse record does enough for you, and being that bad takes you out of FA. The tank really bad for a long time approach really hasn't worked for anyone, so I wouldn't go all out doing that.

[DASMACKDOWN]

You know what else is going to be funny. Jimmy Butler will be the most over used example for fan bases when talking about how goof a player can be.

You shouldnt give up on that young player because Jimmy Butler kept improving after year 4.

Or Jimmy Butler was good enough to lead his team to the Finals etc so others can

Jimmy basically breaks conventional wisdom.

[TheStig]

The Mavs lost in the first round 3 out of 4 years before the title and the 4th year they lost in the 2nd round. Dirk has actually lost in the first round 8 times. Add in 4 more 2nd round losses. His playoff record was not great. I obviously like Dirk much more than Russ. But Russ and PG are a nice duo that you can build solid playoff teams around. You just need the right supporting cast.

It's a fair point, I just don't think much of Westbrook and his ability to drive significant winning. I don't think there is a right cast for him, because in the end, he doesn't fit well in the modern NBA as a non shooting, ball dominant player. Paul George is a guy I've never liked, he's generally not been that interesting a player for most of his career.

I just don't think you bring in vets like that to be key rotation pieces to try to eek out a playoff run. I'd rather see the young guys get a lot of run and figure out if they can be the guys. I think all the vets we've brought in had just lost us key position. I'd rather be the 3rd or 4th worst record with the young guys than the 7th or 8th with these vets. And if you do have these vets and you suck, trade them for something at the deadline. That and the coach were just gross mismanagement. The last few years just seemed like trying to be cheap and pushing for the playoffs.

I more or less agree with this. I would have done the same, especially because for the first couple years you had better lottery odds. Now I think it's a bit more up in the air. I don't think having that worse record does enough for you, and being that bad takes you out of FA. The tank really bad for a long time approach really hasn't worked for anyone, so I wouldn't go all out doing that.

I think that's more personal preference. Both have been on teams that have struggled and succeeded in the post season. My point though was I'd rather have a middling playoff team and try to tinker around it than try to acquire a gazillion 20's picks.

Well luckily we have history to prove that those extra few wins didn't help us. Gar even came out and said that he knew we wouldn't be players in FA and acquired Porter for that reason. I think it's safe to say that with 5-7 less wins, we'd have the same luck. You've got to be a promising playoff team or LA to get a FA to just come. The only way I can see us being a player in FA if Lauri and Coby blow up next year. Otherwise we'll have a repeat of last year.

[Ice Man]

This one looks over to me. Boston is up 15 at halftime, playing impeccably, and getting whatever shots it wanted. I know that the Heat have excelled at comebacks but it looks to me as if Brad's adjustments have them befuddled. If the Celts continue to play at this level, they will give the Western champ all that it can handle.

[MrSparkle]

This one looks over to me. Boston is up 15 at halftime, playing impeccably, and getting whatever shots it wanted. I know that the Heat have excelled at comebacks but it looks to me as if Brad's adjustments have them befuddled. If the Celts continue to play at this level, they will give the Western champ all that it can handle.

20 minutes later...

Miami has more bench options which I think gives them the halftime adjustment advantage. Boston's got nothing but liabilities after Wanamaker, their 6th man. I really think MIA is gonna win this series by just wearing the BOS starters out.

[Chewie]

This one looks over to me. Boston is up 15 at halftime, playing impeccably, and getting whatever shots it wanted. I know that the Heat have excelled at comebacks but it looks to me as if Brad's adjustments have them befuddled. If the Celts continue to play at this level, they will give the Western champ all that it can handle.

20 minutes later...

Miami has more bench options which I think gives them the halftime adjustment advantage. Boston's got nothing but liabilities after Wanamaker, their 6th man. I really think MIA is gonna win this series by just wearing the BOS starters out.

Lord, all I was thinking at halftime is just the opposite of "this is over".

The Heat took their best shot and were only down 13.

[wonderboy2]

Man Hero is very shaky with the ball. Making terrible decisions out there. He needs to work on go to moves as well.

[wonderboy2]

Jimmy is one of my favorite players but he’s not a superstar. It looks like he bought Satos 3 set DVD on how to play offense like an NBA player. Passing up all types of open shots to players not even looking or to players being heavily guarded.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Jimmy is one of my favorite players but he’s not a superstar. It looks like he bought Satos 3 set DVD on how to play offense like an NBA player. Passing up all types of open shots to players not even looking or to players being heavily guarded.

But he makes up for it by being the most clutch player in the game.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I think the Heat can sweep the Celtics going down to the wire every game lol

[Mech Engineer]

Jimmy is one of my favorite players but he’s not a superstar. It looks like he bought Satos 3 set DVD on how to play offense like an NBA player. Passing up all types of open shots to players not even looking or to players being heavily guarded.

C'mon...he us a superstar in every sense. You are too enamored by 1 dimensional superstars like Harden Westbrook who can't make winning plays if their 1 dimension fails. The plays he made got the win for the Heat.

[kodo]

I think Dragic might be leading all scorers in this series after this game. What a career revival.