2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th!

[wonderboy2]

I think he'll be better then DLo

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Wow, that is a great breakdown. I’m even more impressed with Hayes than I was before. I urge everyone to take a look at this video. Thanks Hrv

Actually, as I watch more of Hayes, he makes me think of Manu, especially the way he passes, but also his step-back and moves in the paint.

His handles are actually really weird. Very unorthodox, almost awkward looking. Yet he never really seems out of control or like he's improvising his way in and out of trouble; rather he has very good fundamentals and awareness with the ball. He does look dominant-hand reliant, but that is one thing you can totally improve with training and reps.

Manu has way better handles, was a better shooter and more athletic than Hayes. Manu also has better burst than Hayes. I think Hayes is more of a homeless man Deangelo Russell. I think he will be a decent player in the league but it might take a few years.

[PlayerUp]

I really hope everyone sleeps on Wiseman. Seems like it.

He isn't a very popular option for us and hasn't really shown anything to make him stand out. Centers are a dying position in the NBA. You would hope GS or Charlotte takes him at #2 or #3.

[wonderboy2]

Right now I would be fine with the bulls drafting Ball, Wiseman, Toppin. If they decide to trade down I would be ok with Haliburton, Okorro, Nesmith. Deni Adjiva I’m on the fense with. I don’t think he will be a star player but I think he could be a solid role player. I like Small forwards that are either good 3 point shooters or lock down defenders. Adjiva is neither of those. But he does seem to play hard and can playmake alittle bit. I wouldn’t be mad if the bulls picked him but he really needs to become a knockdown shooter for him to be effective at the next level. I don’t see him being better than Porter.

[Chi town]

I like Okungwu a lot more than Wiseman. O looks a lot like Bam coming out.

In this NBA I would never pick a big man top 10. No point. Even Zion plays more like a wing even though he scores a lot in the paint.

[MGB8]

I've started to look at more videos of the draft prospects and I'm less down on this draft than I was previously.

First, while folks on this board have a lot of hate for LaMelo Ball.... he looks like the real deal to me. Yeah, there's the shooting red flag - although the form isn't broken. But the guy is very quick with the ball and can get anywhere he wants on the court, with some pretty good court vision.

Literally everything about his shot is broken. Which is why he is a terrible shooter.

Eh... this isn't a situation like Shaq, Noah, Fultz or Marion where there's some sort of mechanical issue that's preventing him from shooting well. His wrist flick is actually very nice. And he's clearly got range. Yes, his elbow is low (although centered). Yes, he crouches too much. Yes, his feet are wildly inconsistent - and that's to your point. But when I think of broken, I think of a mechanical issue. This is more of a lack of consistent training issue - which is weird given that he's been raised to be an NBA player - but not something that I don't think is correctable. He even apparently had improvement over the course of the season (as he got more time after former Bull and Rocket Aaron Brooks went down).

The bigger issue may be finishing ability at the rim / strength, where he's faulted for going too much to floaters and other finesse, contact-avoiding moves.

Anyway, I get the hype on him. He's not an instant impact guy like Morant - but to me he's got very high upside and 2-3 years down the line could be a super star, top-5 or top-10 NBA player. The talent is that kind of ceiling.

[PlayerUp]

I don’t know if Hayes or Haliburton are worth a 4 pick. But if I’m reaching for that 4th pick I would take Haliburton. I think if he reach his ceiling he could be a better playmaking Malcolm Brogdon.

You're not getting good value with taking Hayes or Haliburton at #4. I think both prospects slip to #7 as Cleveland/Atlanta don't need a PG. Between the 2, Hayes is a bigger project but Haliburton is clearly the better player right now. If I had to pick between the 2, I would go Haliburton. Being he appears to be a better defender, more athletic, better rebounder, faster.

My general take is if we can't decide who to take, trade down and go with Haliburton over Hayes.

[MGB8]

I like Okungwu a lot more than Wiseman. O looks a lot like Bam coming out.

In this NBA I would never pick a big man top 10. No point. Even Zion plays more like a wing even though he scores a lot in the paint.

I feel like this is a repeat of the playing down of Michael Porter, only with different excuses. In fact, I understood the downplaying of Porter - not just the injury but also the "what's his exact skillset, anyway" concerns... where Porter's skillset was just the combination of size, athleticism and all-around skills.

Wiseman isn't an undersized, low ceiling center who isn't quick enough to play the 4 like Wendell Carter Jr., a pick I didn't want at the time and still don't really like. Wiseman is far more athletic than Carter and significantly taller / longer - and his frame to me suggests that he will have no problem filling out. And there is legit skill in his moves with the ball.

So as the league goes small, you want to defend him with Robert Covington or PJ Tucker? He's going to put up 30 a night without trying if team try that, while owning contested rebounds. His upside is as high as Ayton's (since Wiseman seems to have a clue on defense) or JJJ's, maybe higher. Size still matters in the NBA.

[drosestruts]

Haliburton is still my top preference, but have been studying up more on Deni lately.

I don't mean to compare him to another white foreigner just because he's a white foreigner but I do get strong Joe Ingles vibes from him. Ingles is a good playmaking wing, can shoot (Deni will need to work on this), and has a good competitive spirit.

I like that Deni's father and mother were both professional basketball players.

Deni's father is Serbian and Deni has dual citizenship but grew up in Israel so wanted to play there. I wonder if we would think of him differently if he was coming over from a more known basketball country like Serbia?

Another thing I like about Deni is that when playing against his peers he's been dominant. Whether that be in FIBAs U17 or U20 tournaments. Playing in the Euroleague is a big ask for a kid. Deni's dominance against his peers makes me feel like we'd all be a lot more excited about this kid if he had played a year in college rather than played where he did. He played in a tougher league and it could benefit him in the long-run, but it does make it harder to evaluate him in the short-term.

When I look into a player more in depth I usually find myself falling in or out of favor with the player. With Deni I definitely like what I see, hear and read.

[Chi town]

I like Okungwu a lot more than Wiseman. O looks a lot like Bam coming out.

In this NBA I would never pick a big man top 10. No point. Even Zion plays more like a wing even though he scores a lot in the paint.

I feel like this is a repeat of the playing down of Michael Porter, only with different excuses. In fact, I understood the downplaying of Porter - not just the injury but also the "what's his exact skillset, anyway" concerns... where Porter's skillset was just the combination of size, athleticism and all-around skills.

Wiseman isn't an undersized, low ceiling center who isn't quick enough to play the 4 like Wendell Carter Jr., a pick I didn't want at the time and still don't really like. Wiseman is far more athletic than Carter and significantly taller / longer - and his frame to me suggests that he will have no problem filling out. And there is legit skill in his moves with the ball.

So as the league goes small, you want to defend him with Robert Covington or PJ Tucker? He's going to put up 30 a night without trying if team try that, while owning contested rebounds. His upside is as high as Ayton's (since Wiseman seems to have a clue on defense) or JJJ's, maybe higher. Size still matters in the NBA.

Sorry don’t see that upside at all. Nowhere close to JJJ who can handle and shoot like a wing. As for Ayton... Luka and Trae make that pick look silly.

It’s the positional and skill value that bigs don’t provide. Not to mention floor spacing.

[Chi town]

I don’t know if Hayes or Haliburton are worth a 4 pick. But if I’m reaching for that 4th pick I would take Haliburton. I think if he reach his ceiling he could be a better playmaking Malcolm Brogdon.

You're not getting good value with taking Hayes or Haliburton at #4. I think both prospects slip to #7 as Cleveland/Atlanta don't need a PG. Between the 2, Hayes is a bigger project but Haliburton is clearly the better player right now. If I had to pick between the 2, I would go Haliburton. Being he appears to be a better defender, more athletic, better rebounder, faster.

My general take is if we can't decide who to take, trade down and go with Haliburton over Hayes.

Hali is 1.5 years older too. I think Soph Hayes would be the obvious pick.

[nomorezorro]

I don’t know if Hayes or Haliburton are worth a 4 pick. But if I’m reaching for that 4th pick I would take Haliburton. I think if he reach his ceiling he could be a better playmaking Malcolm Brogdon.

You're not getting good value with taking Hayes or Haliburton at #4.

i really don't think it's helpful to think of this as "the #4 pick" in a vacuum like we should be expecting the same calbre of prospect that would be there in a normal or strong draft. hayes or haliburton might be mid/late lotto guys in a normal draft for a perceived lack of upside, but the "upside" guys in this draft are also incredibly flawed. in a normal class, is james wiseman in the mix for a top-3 pick after playing 3 games with HS tape that people are picking apart?

you also have to ask...if the talent at the top of the draft is weak enough that we would be happy to trade down and draft a less flashy player, what incentive is there for other teams to want to trade up?

[nomorezorro]

making "lower your expectations; settle for devin vassell" my mantra of the draft

[Ugly Duckling]

I'd like to get your guys' take on Tyrell Terry when you have a min. He's moving up boards and looks to have Steph/Trae/Dame range. His height is good at 6'3", but he only weighs 160 lbs. lol, which makes me think he'll be relegated to a 3pt specialist role off the bench. Plus he looks like he's 12. Thoughts?

[TheSuzerain]

I'd like to get your guys' take on Tyrell Terry when you have a min. He's moving up boards and looks to have Steph/Trae/Dame range. His height is good at 6'3", but he only weighs 160 lbs. lol, which makes me think he'll be relegated to a 3pt specialist role off the bench. Plus he looks like he's 12. Thoughts?

Yeah he can be Seth Curry basically. Which is probably worthy of late lotto consideration.

[drosereturn]

This is interesting.

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I feel the same could be said when comparing Hayes and Haliburton. Haliburton does most things as well/or even better than Hayes and yet is deemed as having a lower upside. Haliburton likely has a longer wingspan but most won't value that as highly as Hayes step-back three. If Hayes ends up not being a star, his value tanks tremendously as a role player. Haliburton can be an elite role player.

Put a gun to my head im probably taking Hayes at #4 but i think Haliburton will surprise people once in the league.

Yeah I never understood why Hayes is rated higher when Hali has no real weakness other the weird form/weight which are easily fixable. Im not going to pick neither at 4 but it would be wise to buy another top 8 pick and get whoever drops.

[Ugly Duckling]

I like Okungwu a lot more than Wiseman. O looks a lot like Bam coming out.

In this NBA I would never pick a big man top 10. No point. Even Zion plays more like a wing even though he scores a lot in the paint.

I feel like this is a repeat of the playing down of Michael Porter, only with different excuses. In fact, I understood the downplaying of Porter - not just the injury but also the "what's his exact skillset, anyway" concerns... where Porter's skillset was just the combination of size, athleticism and all-around skills.

Wiseman isn't an undersized, low ceiling center who isn't quick enough to play the 4 like Wendell Carter Jr., a pick I didn't want at the time and still don't really like. Wiseman is far more athletic than Carter and significantly taller / longer - and his frame to me suggests that he will have no problem filling out. And there is legit skill in his moves with the ball.

So as the league goes small, you want to defend him with Robert Covington or PJ Tucker? He's going to put up 30 a night without trying if team try that, while owning contested rebounds. His upside is as high as Ayton's (since Wiseman seems to have a clue on defense) or JJJ's, maybe higher. Size still matters in the NBA.

I agree, but his floor is unplayable, which is too risky for a top 3 pick, maybe even a top 5 one

[drosereturn]

I like Okungwu a lot more than Wiseman. O looks a lot like Bam coming out.

In this NBA I would never pick a big man top 10. No point. Even Zion plays more like a wing even though he scores a lot in the paint.

I feel like this is a repeat of the playing down of Michael Porter, only with different excuses. In fact, I understood the downplaying of Porter - not just the injury but also the "what's his exact skillset, anyway" concerns... where Porter's skillset was just the combination of size, athleticism and all-around skills.

Wiseman isn't an undersized, low ceiling center who isn't quick enough to play the 4 like Wendell Carter Jr., a pick I didn't want at the time and still don't really like. Wiseman is far more athletic than Carter and significantly taller / longer - and his frame to me suggests that he will have no problem filling out. And there is legit skill in his moves with the ball.

So as the league goes small, you want to defend him with Robert Covington or PJ Tucker? He's going to put up 30 a night without trying if team try that, while owning contested rebounds. His upside is as high as Ayton's (since Wiseman seems to have a clue on defense) or JJJ's, maybe higher. Size still matters in the NBA.

Sorry don’t see that upside at all. Nowhere close to JJJ who can handle and shoot like a wing. As for Ayton... Luka and Trae make that pick look silly.

It’s the positional and skill value that bigs don’t provide. Not to mention floor spacing.

JJJ doesnt rebound and his defense isnt good. Ayton seems slow and looks like a traditional big capable of double doubles.
Wiseman can easily put up 20/10 with his agility and excellent defense. Even small ball Rockets, Warriors want elite bigs as a final piece so its not like bigs are useless. Its just that all things considered equal a wing has more value than a big.

[MGB8]

I like Okungwu a lot more than Wiseman. O looks a lot like Bam coming out.

In this NBA I would never pick a big man top 10. No point. Even Zion plays more like a wing even though he scores a lot in the paint.

I feel like this is a repeat of the playing down of Michael Porter, only with different excuses. In fact, I understood the downplaying of Porter - not just the injury but also the "what's his exact skillset, anyway" concerns... where Porter's skillset was just the combination of size, athleticism and all-around skills.

Wiseman isn't an undersized, low ceiling center who isn't quick enough to play the 4 like Wendell Carter Jr., a pick I didn't want at the time and still don't really like. Wiseman is far more athletic than Carter and significantly taller / longer - and his frame to me suggests that he will have no problem filling out. And there is legit skill in his moves with the ball.

So as the league goes small, you want to defend him with Robert Covington or PJ Tucker? He's going to put up 30 a night without trying if team try that, while owning contested rebounds. His upside is as high as Ayton's (since Wiseman seems to have a clue on defense) or JJJ's, maybe higher. Size still matters in the NBA.

I agree, but his floor is unplayable, which is too risky for a top 3 pick, maybe even a top 5 one

I don’t see that, aside from the supposed character/ personality questions (which are really hard for fans to have insight into). I think his floor is WCS or so - since I really don’t see any issues in terms of the ability to get stronger over time. Meaning a floor of a playable but not needle moving big.

[Ugly Duckling]

I feel like this is a repeat of the playing down of Michael Porter, only with different excuses. In fact, I understood the downplaying of Porter - not just the injury but also the "what's his exact skillset, anyway" concerns... where Porter's skillset was just the combination of size, athleticism and all-around skills.

Wiseman isn't an undersized, low ceiling center who isn't quick enough to play the 4 like Wendell Carter Jr., a pick I didn't want at the time and still don't really like. Wiseman is far more athletic than Carter and significantly taller / longer - and his frame to me suggests that he will have no problem filling out. And there is legit skill in his moves with the ball.

So as the league goes small, you want to defend him with Robert Covington or PJ Tucker? He's going to put up 30 a night without trying if team try that, while owning contested rebounds. His upside is as high as Ayton's (since Wiseman seems to have a clue on defense) or JJJ's, maybe higher. Size still matters in the NBA.

I agree, but his floor is unplayable, which is too risky for a top 3 pick, maybe even a top 5 one

I don’t see that, aside from the supposed character/ personality questions (which are really hard for fans to have insight into). I think his floor is WCS or so - since I really don’t see any issues in terms of the ability to get stronger over time. Meaning a floor of a playable but not needle moving big.

You might be right. I wasn't taking character into consideration, which I haven't had a chance to even try to gauge. This one is hard for me to put my finger on. Sometimes it comes down to the eye test. He has tools, as you indicated. Tall, athletic, fast and decent handles for C. His shot mechanics seem pretty good as well as do his instincts. There's something about the tape though. Poor coordination/spatial awareness/BBIQ? Not enough of an edge? Maybe it's just not enough tape, so you get lucky to take him at 4 when he should've gone first. Or maybe it's that he's just another one of the endless promising bigs who gets taken with a top pick, only to bust and never be heard from again

[Just_Bullz]

I have a feeling AK is going Denver style where Deni will be the joker but in a SF body while Coby is Jamal and we have the luxury of Zach as an additional potent offensive weapon.

I do feel Deni or Lamelo will fit into GSW's system nicely but doubt GSW will pick Deni at #2. The wild card will be Charlotte but then again they are infamous for screwing up their high picks.