OT: Bears Talk - Justin Fields era begins

[Hold That]

As far as lack of talent is concerned Dalton played 2 qtr without the starting RB in Montgomery, his 2 top receivers in Robinson and Mooney, his starting TE in Kemet, and arguably the potential starting left tackle in Peters. With that said Justin continues to impress with 2 and 3 stringers…he took a shot today, showed his ability to escape, made some well placed throws. I would like to know what Dalton looks like playing with the real 1s vs what Justin looks like playing with the real 1s. Since we don’t get to see this in preseason, we can only count on Naggy evaluations from practice.

Mitch hung 34 in a half with second teamers - partly against our first team D.

Nagy puts his QBs in bad positions on the regular - Dalton does not have the talent to overcome it - Fields does.

Don’t lose site of the fact that Dalton went 3 and out on 4 straight opening series. You can’t do that to your defense and not allow them to get rest. Why do you think the Bills went to a hurry up offense early, they saw the bears D was getting tired early from lack of rest. This is why Dalton will be a liability. I can understand Dalton isn’t playing with his best WR and or TE, neither was Fields. But who’s the rookie here, is it fields or Dalton. You gotta move the chains
at least a couple of times.

And a lot of us questioned the Dalton signing and wondered if he was even better than Mitch when he got signed, he’s clearly not.

[dice]

As far as lack of talent is concerned Dalton played 2 qtr without the starting RB in Montgomery, his 2 top receivers in Robinson and Mooney, his starting TE in Kemet, and arguably the potential starting left tackle in Peters. With that said Justin continues to impress with 2 and 3 stringers…he took a shot today, showed his ability to escape, made some well placed throws. I would like to know what Dalton looks like playing with the real 1s vs what Justin looks like playing with the real 1s. Since we don’t get to see this in preseason, we can only count on Naggy evaluations from practice.

Mitch hung 34 in a half with second teamers - partly against our first team D.

Nagy puts his QBs in bad positions on the regular - Dalton does not have the talent to overcome it - Fields does.

Don’t lose site of the fact that Dalton went 3 and out on 4 straight opening series.

dalton didn't. the offense did. and typically when a person says "3 and out" that means no first downs. but you have included a drive where dalton had 2 first down passes and on the 3rd play the running back fumbled the ball away. and on another of those drives the bears ran twice for a total of 1 yard, putting dalton in a 3rd and long. he completed the pass a yard short of the marker

dalton has probably outperformed fields in the preseason. that's just reality. he's certainly been more productive throwing the ball

[Chi town]

Read on Twitter

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[Susan]

Mitch hung 34 in a half with second teamers - partly against our first team D.

Nagy puts his QBs in bad positions on the regular - Dalton does not have the talent to overcome it - Fields does.

Don’t lose site of the fact that Dalton went 3 and out on 4 straight opening series.

dalton didn't. the offense did. and typically when a person says "3 and out" that means no first downs. but you have included a drive where dalton had 2 first down passes and on the 3rd play the running back fumbled the ball away. and on another of those drives the bears ran twice for a total of 1 yard, putting dalton in a 3rd and long. he completed the pass a yard short of the marker

dalton has probably outperformed fields in the preseason. that's just reality. he's certainly been more productive throwing the ball

LMAO

Nah man, can't do it. What the hell are you watching? Dalton had one good play, outside of that he was 10/16 for 72 yards and a pick. Last week he was 2/4 for 18 yards.

20 passes - 90 yards

We don't need to see any more of him, he's had ten years to show what he is. The offense looks like **** because he's a backup level QB and Nagy thinks his system is something special and he thinks that Patrick Mahomes situation is relevant to Justin Fields' situation.

It's not, Nagy is a big egoed doofus and he should start Fields from the jump. Having Dalton suck and then handing the keys over to Fields after a few weeks is quite similar to Glennon/Mitch. It doesn't inspire confidence that the job was "earned" when they've never really given Justin a chance to earn the job in the first place.

[Hold That]

Mitch hung 34 in a half with second teamers - partly against our first team D.

Nagy puts his QBs in bad positions on the regular - Dalton does not have the talent to overcome it - Fields does.

Don’t lose site of the fact that Dalton went 3 and out on 4 straight opening series.

dalton didn't. the offense did. and typically when a person says "3 and out" that means no first downs. but you have included a drive where dalton had 2 first down passes and on the 3rd play the running back fumbled the ball away. and on another of those drives the bears ran twice for a total of 1 yard, putting dalton in a 3rd and long. he completed the pass a yard short of the marker

dalton has probably outperformed fields in the preseason. that's just reality. he's certainly been more productive throwing the ball

What the hell are you watching? Seriously? The stats don’t show it and the lack of him moving the offense down the field shows he has not. I can’t take anything you say seriously after this statement. Game 1 of the pre season are you saying Dalton out played fields? You are literally the only person on the planet who thinks this. Not to mention the fact that game 2 Dalton barely did anything outside of throwing one TD pass and also had an INT.. Fields has YET to throw a pick this pre season, and we aren’t going to mention Fields ability to extend plays with his legs and keep the offense on the field seeing that our WR depth can’t create seperation. Dalton himself wouldn’t even agree with this ridiculous statement. This is an absurd statement and you can’t find a fan or analyst that would agree with YOUR reality.

[dice]

Don’t lose site of the fact that Dalton went 3 and out on 4 straight opening series.

dalton didn't. the offense did. and typically when a person says "3 and out" that means no first downs. but you have included a drive where dalton had 2 first down passes and on the 3rd play the running back fumbled the ball away. and on another of those drives the bears ran twice for a total of 1 yard, putting dalton in a 3rd and long. he completed the pass a yard short of the marker

dalton has probably outperformed fields in the preseason. that's just reality. he's certainly been more productive throwing the ball

LMAO

Nah man, can't do it. What the hell are you watching? Dalton had one good play, outside of that he was 10/16 for 72 yards and a pick.

when you include a pick that was most certainly NOT his fault in your opening line, the rest isn't worth reading

amateur hour

fields was 9/19, by the way. of course, you didn't even consider mentioning that, did you?

some serious and blatantly clownish bias going on with you and justin fields. for the love of god find some scintilla of objectiveness

[Hold That]

dalton didn't. the offense did. and typically when a person says "3 and out" that means no first downs. but you have included a drive where dalton had 2 first down passes and on the 3rd play the running back fumbled the ball away. and on another of those drives the bears ran twice for a total of 1 yard, putting dalton in a 3rd and long. he completed the pass a yard short of the marker

dalton has probably outperformed fields in the preseason. that's just reality. he's certainly been more productive throwing the ball

LMAO

Nah man, can't do it. What the hell are you watching? Dalton had one good play, outside of that he was 10/16 for 72 yards and a pick.

when you include a pick that was most certainly NOT his fault in your opening line, the rest isn't worth reading

amateur hour

fields was 9/19, by the way. of course, you didn't even consider mentioning that, did you?

some serious and blatantly clownish bias going on with you and justin fields

Nothing is Daltons fault according to you.

[dice]

LMAO

Nah man, can't do it. What the hell are you watching? Dalton had one good play, outside of that he was 10/16 for 72 yards and a pick.

when you include a pick that was most certainly NOT his fault in your opening line, the rest isn't worth reading

amateur hour

fields was 9/19, by the way. of course, you didn't even consider mentioning that, did you?

some serious and blatantly clownish bias going on with you and justin fields

Nothing is Daltons fault according to you.

complete fabrication. 1 and out with nobody to blame but yourself. try harder

[Hold That]

when you include a pick that was most certainly NOT his fault in your opening line, the rest isn't worth reading

amateur hour

fields was 9/19, by the way. of course, you didn't even consider mentioning that, did you?

some serious and blatantly clownish bias going on with you and justin fields

Nothing is Daltons fault according to you.

complete fabrication. 1 and out. try harder

I don’t have to try and convince you of anything. You just made an absurdly wrong observation and it’s very apparent you really don’t understand what you’re watching. As I said you can’t find one person or analyst who’d support you saying Dalton has outplayed fields. I dare YOU to try to find someone supporting it.

Fields went 9/19. You didn’t mention the failed catch of Ridley down the sideline that anyone who saw it seen it was a catchable ball. You didn’t mention Jesse James prematurely mistiming his jump in the end zone robbing fields of a TD on a catchable ball. You didn’t mention the drop pass by Jon’Vea Johnson catching a 23 yard missle by fields and not holding onto the ball and getting dislodged by the ground being challenged and ruled an incomplete, you didn’t mention Jesper Horstead dropping a ball by fields. I can keep going on and on. But you sit there and mention a ONE fumble by a RB that wasn’t even a pass by Dalton. Again you have no idea what you’re watching. If Fields had some talent around him he would have been 14/19 with 1TD easily.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Why take away a good read and throw?

He is what he is, but he wasn’t the problem.

How was that a good throw? It was an over the shoulder throw that hit the DB in the helmet. It was a garbage throw.

it was a 40 yard in the air, nearly perfect throw that was nearly perfectly covered. and the only reason it wasn't perfectly covered is the defender didn't turn his head to locate the ball

if the DB is running stride-for-stride with the receiver and his helmet is directly in the catch zone, a perfect pass is going to hit him in the helmet. this isn't rocket science

if there's anything to criticize dalton for on that one it's that he threw a jump ball on 2nd down to a perfectly covered receiver not named allen robinson

If a DB has inside coverage, the ball needs to be on the outside. In no planet would the “catch zone” be behind and inside of the receiver so he has the reach back.

40 yds in the air? May want to check again. Counting yards isn’t rocket science.

[fleet]

This is Teven Jenkins peer group btw. Going back to 2000, List of O linemen drafted in first 2 rounds who have played 5 or fewer games their rookie year. Not a lot of hits.

k Player Year Age Draft
▲ Tm AV G GS
1 Luke Joeckel 2013 22 1-2 JAX 2 5 5
2 Chris Lindstrom 2019 22 1-14 ATL 3 5 5
3 Shawn Andrews 2004 22 1-16 PHI 1 1 1
4 George Foster 2003 23 1-20 DEN 0 1 0
5 Cedric Ogbuehi 2015 23 1-21 CIN 0 5 0
6 David DeCastro 2012 22 1-24 PIT 1 4 3
7 Isaiah Wilson 2020 21 1-29 TEN 0 1 0
8 Gabe Carimi 2011 23 1-29 CHI 1 2 2
9 Derek Sherrod 2011 22 1-32 GNB 1 5 0
10 Greg Little 2019 22 2-37 CAR 1 4 3
11 Forrest Lamp 2018 24 2-38 LAC 0 2 0
12 Menelik Watson 2013 25 2-42 OAK 1 5 3
13 Cyrus Kouandjio 2014 21 2-44 BUF 0 1 0
14 Adrian Klemm 2000 23 2-46 NWE 2 5 4
15 Ben Ijalana 2011 22 2-49 IND 0 4 0
16 Jacob Rogers 2004 23 2-52 DAL 0 2 0
17 Ty Sambrailo 2015 23 2-59 DEN 2 3 3
18 Bobbie Williams 2001 25 2-61 PHI 0 1 1
19 Vlad Ducasse 2010 23 2-61 NYJ 0 2 0
20 Charles Brown 2010 23 2-64 NOR 0 3 0
Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 8/18/2021


https://beargoggleson.com/2021/08/19/teven-jenkins-injury-future-chicago-bears/

[fleet]

At this point the only thing holding Fields back may be the pass protection, or more specifically, his grasp of it. The Bears o-line is going to struggle, and Fields’ mobility will help him more than Dalton’s, but Fields having complete knowledge on where the free rusher is coming from and where all his hot reads are could be giving Nagy pause.

This was discussed earlier this week by ESPN’s Louis Riddick, and seeing Fields get popped by a free rusher against the Bills helps to visualize it. “If he (Nagy) feels as though Justin can protect himself from a protection stand point,” Riddick said, “then he will put him in there.”

Fields even said in his post game presser that the hit he took was a good learning opportunity for him as he works to get the pass protection right. And wouldn’t you know it, later in the game he faced a similar free blitzer, and that time he recognized it and completed a pass.

I disagree with Riddick somewhat. While Nagy is concerned about Fields getting protections right, Nagy likely won’t be convinced via preseason games or in practice no matter how well it goes in that area. Nagy is formed by his experience in KC (if not simply because he is stubborn). No matter how fanciful it is that Patrick Mahomes was incapable of doing what he did in his career if he began to play his rookie year. And as dumb it sounds for his own career, Nagy will let losses and mediocrity pile up during the real season before he makes a change for ‘football reasons’. Not that it would make a big difference imo anyway who starts for this team right now. And letting Dalton take some punishment instead of Fields is fine by me.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2021/8/21/22635808/andy-dalton-still-the-qb1-chicago-bears-matt-nagy-justin-fields-offense-pass-protection-quarterback

[fleet]

I should add, Nagy lied that Fields would get more reps with the ones. I believe to this date Fields has gotten 1 rep since that statement. Not the first time that Nagy lied, he always made promises about running the ball more well before it actually happened (a little). Nagy talking to media is great theater. If you like politicians who use a lot of words to say very little. Someone said before that Nagy’s job is to be a politician. I disagreed with that, and replied that Nagy ought to be good at it at least if that was his job, which he is not, and it is not. But he does occasionally buy himself a little time for more dysfunctional coaching with his political meandering speak.

[Susan]

dalton didn't. the offense did. and typically when a person says "3 and out" that means no first downs. but you have included a drive where dalton had 2 first down passes and on the 3rd play the running back fumbled the ball away. and on another of those drives the bears ran twice for a total of 1 yard, putting dalton in a 3rd and long. he completed the pass a yard short of the marker

dalton has probably outperformed fields in the preseason. that's just reality. he's certainly been more productive throwing the ball

LMAO

Nah man, can't do it. What the hell are you watching? Dalton had one good play, outside of that he was 10/16 for 72 yards and a pick.

when you include a pick that was most certainly NOT his fault in your opening line, the rest isn't worth reading

amateur hour

fields was 9/19, by the way. of course, you didn't even consider mentioning that, did you?

some serious and blatantly clownish bias going on with you and justin fields. for the love of god find some scintilla of objectiveness

If JF1 looks like a franchise QB like you said, and Dalton outplayed him, what's that mean Dalton looked like?

fields looked like a franchise QB again. everything else, including trubisky carving up the defense, is secondary. if nagy wants to let dalton get beat up while the O-line sorts itself out, fine by me. this should be treated as a transitional season

Bring up the highlights of what Dalton did to impress you. I'm intrigued.

[sco]

With the offensive line in disarray, I figure it will take at least 4 games for them not to be a sieve. Might as well just let Dalton take those hits during those losses, and they will lose until the O-Line gets fixed, like every single game. If the O-Line settles down sooner, fine we can bring in fields sooner.

[CaPiTanAK]

That Larry borom kid was pretty solid on his first outing.

[Susan]

With the offensive line in disarray, I figure it will take at least 4 games for them not to be a sieve. Might as well just let Dalton take those hits during those losses, and they will lose until the O-Line gets fixed, like every single game. If the O-Line settles down sooner, fine we can bring in fields sooner.

Dalton impacts both the running game and the defense.

Fields legs means the opposing defense needs to account for him in the running game which creates a mismatch for the o-line. Nobody is afraid of Dalton's legs so they ignore him and the running lanes are more cluttered which puts more pressure on Dalton to make plays with his arm - which he's not capable of doing at a high level.

This lack of cohesion results in short drives which puts the defense in a tough spot. They can't be on the field for so long before they start to get tired - then they're gonna give up points and we're playing from behind and strictly passing the ball to play catch up.

This defense was built to play with a lead. The offensive line won't ever look good with Dalton because the offense will be predictable and overly pass heavy. Predictable = defenses rushing the passer endlessly = more pressure on the o-line = more people saying we need to keep Fields off of the field because Dalton is getting murdered.

Fields makes the running game better and he makes the defense better because he's absolutely shown he's more capable of picking up first downs right now.

[sco]

With the offensive line in disarray, I figure it will take at least 4 games for them not to be a sieve. Might as well just let Dalton take those hits during those losses, and they will lose until the O-Line gets fixed, like every single game. If the O-Line settles down sooner, fine we can bring in fields sooner.

Dalton impacts both the running game and the defense.

Fields legs means the opposing defense needs to account for him in the running game which creates a mismatch for the o-line. Nobody is afraid of Dalton's legs so they ignore him and the running lanes are more cluttered which puts more pressure on Dalton to make plays with his arm - which he's not capable of doing at a high level.

This lack of cohesion results in short drives which puts the defense in a tough spot. They can't be on the field for so long before they start to get tired - then they're gonna give up points and we're playing from behind and strictly passing the ball to play catch up.

This defense was built to play with a lead. The offensive line won't ever look good with Dalton because the offense will be predictable and overly pass heavy. Predictable = defenses rushing the passer endlessly = more pressure on the o-line = more people saying we need to keep Fields off of the field because Dalton is getting murdered.

Fields makes the running game better and he makes the defense better because he's absolutely shown he's more capable of picking up first downs right now.

Sure, but as demonstrated yesterday, he's not experienced enough to see everything coming at him. He's gonna take too many unnecessary hits until the line gels...we aren't winning any games until that happens, but I think it will happen after a few games. Why risk him during sure losses early on?

[CaPiTanAK]

I don't care what Nagy plan is. Dalton is going to choke badly on the opening game against the Rams. I personally expect a total beatdown of 30-40 pts diff with the Bears struggling to score double digits. He's going to be forced to start JF1 whether he likes it or not.

[Stratmaster]

Without being able to see Jenkins’ charts, Dr Jesse Morse weighs in

Limited details, this could be simple herniated disc but is likely a combo of spondylysis or spondylolisthesis. Chronic lumbar instability due to weight & constant hyperextension. If compressing on nerve, hard to treat with ‘regular’ ortho. Surgery not ideal.

https://beargoggleson.com/2021/08/18/chicago-bears-teven-jenkins-back-surgery/2/

His career is likely over if it's truly spondylolysis or spondylolithesis. The reason for that is that he will need to be fused, which will severely limit his strength, mobility, and movement in the future.

It's likely that it's a herniated disc that's refractory to conservative measures, and needs to be sniped, in order for Jenkins to resume his football career.

My wife had spondylosis and a bad disk. They wanted to fuse her back. I took her to Germany, they put an artificial disk in her back, and after 10 years of pain she is now 13 years pain free. Our medicine is always years behind here.

Of course, she doesn't play left tackle for the Chicago Bears...

Edit: autocorrect originally changed soondylosis to dinnertime. Wtf?

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