Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Ice the knees]

Wait a minute the Bulls love Waiters but were scared of Lance Stephenson? Utterly bizarre.

Considering Lance is actually a proven positive performer with efficient offense and playmaking and Waiters is all potential, but right now hindered by poor shot selection, an over sized ego, and attitude problem where he couldn't get along with the team's best player and thought it should be 'his team' instead.

According to a source close to Waiters, he "wants out" of Cleveland and "prefers to go to Philly because he thinks he'd be the best player on the team. That's his mindset."

So he wanted to go to Philly, a team that stunk with no prospects for winning anytime soon because he would be the best player...

To be fair, striving to be and wanting to be the best player should be every basketball players mentality. I think it's a little harsh to shed a negative light on that alone.

Philly to a player is an opportunity to test your game, to see if you can be as great as you dream. Limitless opportunities to have possession of the ball.

To a fan it's a selfish and foolish desire. It's a terrible team and it does show a lack of awareness on Waiters part that true greats use their teammates, he probably wouldn't succeed in Philly. Perhaps a more structured organization though could do the trick...

Now if he proves to be uncoachable and doesn't put in the work, that's a different story. I don't think one can say either way yet who Dion Waiters is as a player.

[NecessaryEvil]

Also, there is a slight bias here when comparing Taj and Waiters...but that's not something that can be changed

Slight bias is an understatement. It looks as if many believe we cant go on without him.

I agree with everything u said, btw.

[nomorezorro]

there is a serious difference between saying "taj gibson should not be traded" and "taj gibson should not be traded if dion waiters is the centerpiece of the return package"

[DowJones]

If Cleveland is willing to give up Wiggins/Waiters/Thompson/Bennett for a one year rental they are bold and crazy.

There is almost no chance Waiters is traded in any deal involving Wiggins. Cleveland obviously says no to the deal you mentioned. I really doubt Cleveland goes any higher than Wiggins/Bennett/1 first.

[Mech Engineer]

Wait a minute the Bulls love Waiters but were scared of Lance Stephenson? Utterly bizarre.

Considering Lance is actually a proven positive performer with efficient offense and playmaking and Waiters is all potential, but right now hindered by poor shot selection, an over sized ego, and attitude problem where he couldn't get along with the team's best player and thought it should be 'his team' instead.

According to a source close to Waiters, he "wants out" of Cleveland and "prefers to go to Philly because he thinks he'd be the best player on the team. That's his mindset."

So he wanted to go to Philly, a team that stunk with no prospects for winning anytime soon because he would be the best player...

To be fair, striving to be and wanting to be the best player should be every basketball players mentality. I think it's a little harsh to shed a negative light on that alone.

Philly to a player is an opportunity to test your game, to see if you can be as great as you dream. Limitless opportunities to have possession of the ball.

To a fan it's a selfish and foolish desire. It's a terrible team and it does show a lack of awareness on Waiters part that true greats use their teammates, he probably wouldn't succeed in Philly. Perhaps a more structured organization though could do the trick...

Now if he proves to be uncoachable and doesn't put in the work, that's a different story. I don't think one can say either way yet who Dion Waiters is as a player.

This is the job of the FO to research a player. A selfish player is different from a player who wants to be great. There is a reason why guys like Rudy Gay, Josh Smith are ridiculed. LeBron wants to be great but also sometimes doesn't care who gets the last shot. Waiters was a perfect addition a two years back to see how he fits on a team which was not going to contend.

It is a very risky move at this phase of the Bulls to get someone like him by losing assets on top of it. He is not going to be happy being a 15 minute contributor nor is he talented enough that the Bulls can let him learn through his mistakes. He is going to be a negative impact player for the team.

[Concept Coop]

He won't sign an extension this summer because next summer he is eligible for 30% of the cap instead of 25%. Why lose 5% right off the bat. I'm sure he will give strong assurances to whoever he gets traded too.

Exactly. "I want out of my contract. I want to pick the team I go to. I want all the risk to be with everyone else involved and all the reward to be with me. I won't take a dime less than I would get if I actually HONORED my contract". Screw him.

How does he want out of his contract? He said that he was opting out next year and that if they want to get value they should trade him. He didn't publicly demand a trade. He quietly went to the FO and told him his plans for the future. Minny has the option to keep him this year and him walking next year. The ball is in their court. He isn't forcing anything. Nothing from Love indicates he won't be in camp and ready to play this year for the Wolves. He is living up to his deal.

Exactly! This is silly. He didn't demand out of his contract. He simply told the team that he is not interested in re-signing with them. Why should he leave money on the table? I sure as hell wouldn't and I don't think anyone else here would either.

[NecessaryEvil]

there is a serious difference between saying "taj gibson should not be traded" and "taj gibson should not be traded if dion waiters is the centerpiece of the return package"

And yet, in his inevitable departure, we still ask the question, WHO would you trade him for?

So far, Martin, Waiters and Afflalo don't fit the bill on this board.

[Concept Coop]

To be fair, striving to be and wanting to be the best player should be every basketball players mentality. I think it's a little harsh to shed a negative light on that alone.

He wants to go to a bad team to be the best player on said team. That is very different than wanting to be the best and living your life accordingly--playing, studying, practicing, etc.

[MalikJoakim24]

Rose on Love: "That's up to the front office. I'm riding with whatever decision they make. My job right now is just to prepare for this."

[Ice the knees]

there is a serious difference between saying "taj gibson should not be traded" and "taj gibson should not be traded if dion waiters is the centerpiece of the return package"

I think above all it has to do with circumstance. And this isn't directed specifically to you

Taj is the odd man out. To see it any other way is just being stubborn, truthfully. We all know this organization. Just like Boozer, the Bulls didn't sign Pau to come off the bench. And just like Boozer, the Bulls are looking for consistent offense from the 4 spot. Pau is starting. Let the acceptance wash over us all.

Other than Rose I think Taj is the only Bulls player in the last 10 years that has made me jump out of my seat. He is more often than not hustling (lets be real, he is a cry baby) and is about as consistent as they come on defense. You just don't have to worry about Taj Gibson. He's there to ball every night.

But he's still the 4th big on this squad. Not the 4th best, just the 4th big. Noah and Pau are starting and Niko is getting his minutes at that salary. So what else are the Bulls supposed to do with Taj?

Obviously there will be a ton of different opinions on how good Taj is compared to X. But I mean once you concede that the Bulls are trading Taj you can start looking at trades from a much more fair perspective IMO

[Rerisen]

Rose on Love: "That's up to the front office. I'm riding with whatever decision they make. My job right now is just to prepare for this."

Rose then muttered under his breath: "Just don't bring Keith Bogans back for **** sake!"

[Concept Coop]

But he's still the 4th big on this squad. Not the 4th best, just the 4th big. Noah and Pau are starting and Niko is getting his minutes at that salary.

Taj makes more than Mirotic. Why would we be obligated to play a guy making 6.5 over a guy making 8?

[Chi town]

True Ice. I agree.

I want to see this team together though. I want to see what Snell and Mc3 can do. I want to see what Rose looks like off the ball too. I'd much rather see what all this looks like before pulling the trigger on a trade without knowing how this team fits together. I know longterm Taj won't be here but I can see him sticking till the trade deadline.

[Ice the knees]

To be fair, striving to be and wanting to be the best player should be every basketball players mentality. I think it's a little harsh to shed a negative light on that alone.

He wants to go to a bad team to be the best player on said team. That is very different than wanting to be the best and living your life accordingly--playing, studying, practicing, etc.

My point was that we don't know he isn't doing those things.

[Ice the knees]

But he's still the 4th big on this squad. Not the 4th best, just the 4th big. Noah and Pau are starting and Niko is getting his minutes at that salary.

Taj makes more than Mirotic. Why would we be obligated to play a guy making 6.5 over a guy making 8?

Why would the Bulls be obligated to play a player they've been waiting to bring over for 3 years? You know this guy would have been a top 10 pick this year...And paying him 6.5m to me says a lot more than paying Taj 8m...Also, I think it's important to remember that the Bulls really are looking to move Taj

[Rerisen]

I think we need to find someone a little more proven for our secondary creator or 3rd option as it were.

LeBron went to join Wade because he knew what he could do, he didn't go join Gerald Henderson and hoped that he took the next step...

If we brought Dion on with Kevin Martin that would be some security, but then suddenly is Dion pissed because he's not just automatically handed the keys to SG?

[nomorezorro]

And yet, in his inevitable departure, we still ask the question, WHO would you trade him for?

So far, Martin, Waiters and Afflalo don't fit the bill on this board.

i think there was pretty substantial support for trading him for afflalo, but the timing didn't work out at all. (i would like to get another asset back if the bulls were to trade taj for afflalo right this instant, but if there was evidence the frontcourt roster would be fine with mirotic as the primary backup big then i would be okay with the straight-up swap probably)

martin for gibson is a terrible trade because martin seems to be a negative asset at this point due to his contract. giving up a solid asset for a guy another team is looking to dump in a trade is probably a bad move, and i have to wonder if you couldn't get martin for mdj + snell or something

dion waiters is just not very good imo

[Concept Coop]

But he's still the 4th big on this squad. Not the 4th best, just the 4th big. Noah and Pau are starting and Niko is getting his minutes at that salary.

Taj makes more than Mirotic. Why would we be obligated to play a guy making 6.5 over a guy making 8?

Why would the Bulls be obligated to play a player they've been waiting to bring over for 3 years? You know this guy would have been a top 10 pick this year...And paying him 6.5m to me says a lot more than paying Taj 8m...Also, I think it's important to remember that the Bulls really are looking to move Taj

You brought up the money, so I assumed that's what you meant.

As for the Bulls looking to move Taj--I don't think we know that. They are interested in moving him in a couple potential deals. I don't think that means they're looking to move him in general.

[NecessaryEvil]

It is a very risky move at this phase of the Bulls to get someone like him by losing assets on top of it. He is not going to be happy being a 15 minute contributor nor is he talented enough that the Bulls can let him learn through his mistakes. He is going to be a negative impact player for the team.

Losing assets...here we go again

Not talented enough? I simply disagree

Learn through his mistakes??? What is he? a rookie?? What mistakes are you referring to?

[Ice the knees]

I think we need to find someone a little more proven for our secondary creator or 3rd option as it were.

LeBron went to join Wade because he knew what he could do, he didn't go join Gerald Henderson and hoped that he took the next step...

If we brought Dion on with Kevin Martin that would be some security, but then suddenly is Dion pissed because he's not just automatically handed the keys to SG?

My hunch would be that Waiters would be the starter and Martin becomes the spark off the bench. More like a CJ Watson type of player...a utility offensive player

My hunch also is that you would absolutely hate that