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DASMACKDOWN wrote:If we made any of those trades, prepare for this board to be a ghost town when we suck.
TheStig wrote:I was open to trading Butler in the offseason but I think he's reached the point that only drafting a guy like Curry, Durant, Bron or a top 5 player could make it worth it. I just don't see that coming. It's not even like any of the Celtics picks are gaurnteed to be top 3. I just don't see a deal that could be done. Jimmy has elevated himself to top 10.
IMHO the FO needs to grow a pair and deal for a star who is available. Get me Milsap, Griffin or possibly Melo. They have Rondo, Mirotic and picks to make it happen.
I just can't see any of those picks realistically being better than Jimmy. When he was top 20 last year, maybe. But not top 10 Jimmy in his prime. Get him some help and you can conceivable make the ECF. it's pretty open.
RedBulls83 wrote:If I'm the Celtics, I don't include Crowder. You still been him to be the 3D wing that can play off Jimmy and IT. Also, he can defend Lebron.
DroseReturnChi wrote:DASMACKDOWN wrote:If we made any of those trades, prepare for this board to be a ghost town when we suck.
Def more fun watching 3-5 super prospects developing. Actually this year has not been entertaining to me and the team gives no hope of winning a championship. Only reason I often watch is bc of Valentine and Zipser. As long as they play well, idc if we lose or win that much.
RedBulls83 wrote:If I'm the Celtics, I don't include Crowder. You still been him to be the 3D wing that can play off Jimmy and IT. Also, he can defend Lebron.
DroseReturnChi wrote:TheStig wrote:I was open to trading Butler in the offseason but I think he's reached the point that only drafting a guy like Curry, Durant, Bron or a top 5 player could make it worth it. I just don't see that coming. It's not even like any of the Celtics picks are gaurnteed to be top 3. I just don't see a deal that could be done. Jimmy has elevated himself to top 10.
IMHO the FO needs to grow a pair and deal for a star who is available. Get me Milsap, Griffin or possibly Melo. They have Rondo, Mirotic and picks to make it happen.
I just can't see any of those picks realistically being better than Jimmy. When he was top 20 last year, maybe. But not top 10 Jimmy in his prime. Get him some help and you can conceivable make the ECF. it's pretty open.
Both BKN picks are def top 5 near guarantee. I would say we get #1 realistically this year, but even if we get #2 it might be a blessing in disguise if the #1 pick is used for the wrong prospect. (See Bennett, and Michael Jordan's draft yr)
Bulls_Fan wrote:RedBulls83 wrote:If I'm the Celtics, I don't include Crowder. You still been him to be the 3D wing that can play off Jimmy and IT. Also, he can defend Lebron.
W/o Crowder included in the trade, both teams can still claim they 'won' the trade. Celts don't give up any part of their core and gain a top 15 player. Bulls get the picks they want to begin the rebuild.
I hope at the end of the day, this deal isn't being held up by what players the Bulls get in return. If any hang-up it should be based on getting both picks.
Payt10 wrote:RedBulls83 wrote:Report: Bulls, Celtics may rekindle trade talks for Jimmy Butler
http://www.thescore.com/news/1221137Rumor mill: There are rival executives who believe the Bulls and Celtics will rekindle trade talks centered on Jimmy Butler before the Feb. 23 deadline. The teams held serious talks in June, and the Celtics own the same assets — Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, the Nets' first-round picks in 2017 and 2018 — the teams discussed then.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-denzel-valentine-trying-season-20170130-story.html
According to KC
Sigh... Such a bad trade. Marcus Smart is a nothing prospect. Jae Crowder is a nice player, but not a high potential player, and the Nets picks could just as likely turn out to be the next Alex Lin or Ben McLemore than they could be the next Anthony Davis..
If I'm trading Jimmy, I want at least one semi-established young stud (like Wiggins, for example) AND a top 3 pick in the draft. I need some sort of security that even if the draft pick is a flop, the young player you got in the deal is at least All-Star caliber. Boston has zero young players that fit that description. I would be so pissed if we made a deal with Boston.
DASMACKDOWN wrote:DroseReturnChi wrote:DASMACKDOWN wrote:If we made any of those trades, prepare for this board to be a ghost town when we suck.
Def more fun watching 3-5 super prospects developing. Actually this year has not been entertaining to me and the team gives no hope of winning a championship. Only reason I often watch is bc of Valentine and Zipser. As long as they play well, idc if we lose or win that much.
...Heard that before when we had Tyson and Eddy.
Been there done that. It was still a flaming pile of doodooo.
People would just be replacing expectations with hope. Hope has to take a ton of patience that most fans, GMS and owners don't have. All lottery teams pray they have that next transcendent superstar. Most of them end of up like Sacramento.
Mech Engineer wrote:Other than the Brooklyn picks, is the Boston team so great that the Bulls can't build a team like that in a year with Jimmy on it? It is infuriating to read that Butler is too old and the Bulls FO can't build around him. Boston has average players who they have got in trades/free agency. The Bulls FO is really pathetic not just in performance but if they know Jimmy is a great player but believe they can't build around him. It tells me they don't want to do the hard/creative work.
Boston has to make a trade for someone sooner than later. Even if they hit on a star with the draft picks....the way it works is that star will be ball dominant, guys like Horford, IT have to adjust to him holding the ball. There is also the ego factor of accepting a 22 year old as your best player.
The advantage of getting a proven star is you know how he plays in the NBA and his tendencies. You can have the vets adjust to each other. And, IT/Horford are good jump-shooters...kind of the perfect complementary guys to Jimmy.
DroseReturnChi wrote:RedBulls83 wrote:If I'm the Celtics, I don't include Crowder. You still been him to be the 3D wing that can play off Jimmy and IT. Also, he can defend Lebron.
Better for us anyway. We getting Crowder will be actually worse since he gets us a lot of win we shouldnt win. Unless his leadership (doubt he has much presence since he and Butler were teammates) is super impactful to the rookies, I dont want him. I just want the damn 2BKN picks.
DroseReturnChi wrote:Mech Engineer wrote:Other than the Brooklyn picks, is the Boston team so great that the Bulls can't build a team like that in a year with Jimmy on it? It is infuriating to read that Butler is too old and the Bulls FO can't build around him. Boston has average players who they have got in trades/free agency. The Bulls FO is really pathetic not just in performance but if they know Jimmy is a great player but believe they can't build around him. It tells me they don't want to do the hard/creative work.
Boston has to make a trade for someone sooner than later. Even if they hit on a star with the draft picks....the way it works is that star will be ball dominant, guys like Horford, IT have to adjust to him holding the ball. There is also the ego factor of accepting a 22 year old as your best player.
The advantage of getting a proven star is you know how he plays in the NBA and his tendencies. You can have the vets adjust to each other. And, IT/Horford are good jump-shooters...kind of the perfect complementary guys to Jimmy.
This year we had a chance to be great and blew it with the Wade signing and it's too late to turn back the clock. The gap between the Bulls and Boston/ Toronto is too big to ignore/ deny to continue insisting on building around Butler with no real plan.
ArizonaBullsFan wrote:Just saw Legler on ESPN say it's 50/50 whether Jimmy finishes the year with the Bulls.
DroseReturnChi wrote:DASMACKDOWN wrote:If we made any of those trades, prepare for this board to be a ghost town when we suck.
Def more fun watching 3-5 super prospects developing. Actually this year has not been entertaining to me and the team gives no hope of winning a championship. Only reason I often watch is bc of Valentine and Zipser. As long as they play well, idc if we lose or win that much.
Mech Engineer wrote:DroseReturnChi wrote:Mech Engineer wrote:Other than the Brooklyn picks, is the Boston team so great that the Bulls can't build a team like that in a year with Jimmy on it? It is infuriating to read that Butler is too old and the Bulls FO can't build around him. Boston has average players who they have got in trades/free agency. The Bulls FO is really pathetic not just in performance but if they know Jimmy is a great player but believe they can't build around him. It tells me they don't want to do the hard/creative work.
Boston has to make a trade for someone sooner than later. Even if they hit on a star with the draft picks....the way it works is that star will be ball dominant, guys like Horford, IT have to adjust to him holding the ball. There is also the ego factor of accepting a 22 year old as your best player.
The advantage of getting a proven star is you know how he plays in the NBA and his tendencies. You can have the vets adjust to each other. And, IT/Horford are good jump-shooters...kind of the perfect complementary guys to Jimmy.
This year we had a chance to be great and blew it with the Wade signing and it's too late to turn back the clock. The gap between the Bulls and Boston/ Toronto is too big to ignore/ deny to continue insisting on building around Butler with no real plan.
No..it's not a big gap between Boston/Toronto and the Bulls. Most of them are fixable problems unlike depending on stupid luck like draft picks. You can change the coach, make trades to better fit the roster etc...
If there is one good thing the Bulls have done is they don't have any long term contracts other than Jimmy at a lower rate. If you look at it positively, the Bulls are in the best position of any team in the league in terms of salary constraints with the best player being paid less than 17 or 18% of the cap-space.