Official: Jimmy Butler, #16 to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn, #7 - merged/Justin Patton injured

[TheSuzerain]

I hate the trade even more after sleeping on it.

There are so many things about this package that just don't make any sense.

[HoopsterJones]

Hmm. Under contract:

Lopez
Portis/Mirotic/Markkanen
LaVine/Zipser
Wade/Valentine
Rondo/Dunn/Payne/Grant/Carter-Williams/Canaan

That's a ton of guards and a weak frontcourt. Something else has to happen, right?

Technically Mirotic and MCW aren't under contract. But they are RFA.

[Stratmaster]

Hmm. Under contract:

Lopez
Portis/Mirotic/Markkanen
LaVine/Zipser
Wade/Valentine
Rondo/Dunn/Payne/Grant/Carter-Williams/Canaan

That's a ton of guards and a weak frontcourt. Something else has to happen, right?

I don't see MCW being back. Canaan could go in some type of move for a big. In a small ball approach Portis, and it would seem Markkanen, could play some Center (I am not sure about Markkanen...I just know he is a 7 footer). Grant and Canaan can play off-ball at the 2 (and possibly even Payne). But yes, there should be more to come!

The question is who has a bunch of cap space they want to save for 2018 off-season who might be willing to take wade off our hands. Hey, the Bulls might want him.

[Rerisen]

The question is who has a bunch of cap space they want to save for 2018 off-season who might be willing to take wade off our hands. Hey, the Bulls might want him.

I predict further decline, and even more laizness from Wade if here.

So the only big downside with him staying is he hogs shots and time from younger guys.

But as far as tank commanding, probably wouldn't be that easy to respend his money in better (worse?) ways as far as helping us lose.

[Axxo]

Hmm. Under contract:

Lopez
Portis/Mirotic/Markkanen
LaVine/Zipser
Wade/Valentine
Rondo/Dunn/Payne/Grant/Carter-Williams/Canaan

That's a ton of guards and a weak frontcourt. Something else has to happen, right?

I don't see MCW being back. Canaan could go in some type of move for a big. In a small ball approach Portis, and it would seem Markkanen, could play some Center (I am not sure about Markkanen...I just know he is a 7 footer). Grant and Canaan can play off-ball at the 2 (and possibly even Payne). But yes, there should be more to come!

The question is who has a bunch of cap space they want to save for 2018 off-season who might be willing to take wade off our hands. Hey, the Bulls might want him.

Lavine is a 2. He is only 6'5. Cant see him playing at the 3.

[HoopsterJones]

The Bulls have to be bad next year for this to be worthwhile. If they win 30+ games next year, this move is a failure. They need to be in the hunt for a top 5 pick.

[3noD]

Thanks Ralph...the strategy explains itself. It may not work, but the roster and salary positioning is correct for such moves.

The large TPE also helps. Then having a 24 Million dollar contract is another help.

That needs to be the strategy now. Pile on future picks. Help Ainge free up salaries to sign Hayward.

Yeah if Ainge needs to unload a player like Jae or Bradley the Bulls should definitely look there but knowing Ainge he'd be the one asking for the pick.

lol, that's true. Still, let's hope there are teams desperate to free up space. Maybe Cleveland? We should ask for a 2020/21 pick if we take some of their bad deals. Too bad we didn't jump on the Lakers / Russell deal, I would have been down for that.

[Ice Man]

I hate the trade even more after sleeping on it.

There are so many things about this package that just don't make any sense.

This trade was for GarPax. It buys them time, now they can argue that they should oversee the rebuilding process that they have started. Indirectly, those who support the trade on the theory of "best that we took a path even if the trade wasn't very good" are siding with Gar.

I don't side with Gar.

[D_GoLow]

Hmmm Wade, watcha gonna do? Didn't realize you were getting paid $24m to babysit did'ya? Have fun on those team flights changing diapers. For his sake, I hope they can agree on a reasonable buy out and he gets to go play with the Cavs or somewhere he deserves. Bulls front office is a Snake Pit, complete trash! Got rid of a talented head coach in Thibs to bring in a more agreable college coach, then that coach pushes out all the teams talent for more agreable college kids...Why are we trying so hard to be the best NCAA team?

I really hope Wade stays. Two reasons. We need to be above salary limit, and second him mentoring Lavine and Dunn will be crucial for their development. And in case of Lavine, rehab and mental approach after injury. Wade knows how to handle the body. Let's not forget we dont have Lavine for till January atleast. Who is going to score basketball? Wade seems to be good fit. I dont expect Markkanen till All-Star break to contribute or break out. Dunn alone can't do it.

Really hope Wade invests his time in Dunn, they're similar players.

Rookies never do much with Thibs at the helm, not even JIMMY

[TheSuzerain]

Hmmm Wade, watcha gonna do? Didn't realize you were getting paid $24m to babysit did'ya? Have fun on those team flights changing diapers. For his sake, I hope they can agree on a reasonable buy out and he gets to go play with the Cavs or somewhere he deserves. Bulls front office is a Snake Pit, complete trash! Got rid of a talented head coach in Thibs to bring in a more agreable college coach, then that coach pushes out all the teams talent for more agreable college kids...Why are we trying so hard to be the best NCAA team?

I really hope Wade stays. Two reasons. We need to be above salary limit, and second him mentoring Lavine and Dunn will be crucial for their development. And in case of Lavine, rehab and mental approach after injury. Wade knows how to handle the body. Let's not forget we dont have Lavine for till January atleast. Who is going to score basketball? Wade seems to be good fit. I dont expect Markkanen till All-Star break to contribute or break out. Dunn alone can't do it.

Really hope Wade invests his time in Dunn, they're similar players.

Rookies never do much with Thibs at the helm, not even JIMMY

pfffft no they aren't. That's an absurd comparison.

[MC3]

The Bulls have to be bad next year for this to be worthwhile. If they win 30+ games next year, this move is a failure. They need to be in the hunt for a top 5 pick.

I dont see how we do it. Unless Markkanen and Dunn ball out right of the gate and Wade is there to close the games, this team aint winning 30+. Specially when Lavine is out for likely half of season. And not mention we dont have single wing who can defend opposite best player.

[D1ckeyS1mpkins]

I was super high on Lavine prior to his ACL tear. The guy was on that track to greatness. I hope this isn't deja vu.

[Ice Man]

I dont see how we do it. Unless Markkanen and Dunn ball out right of the gate and Wade is there to close the games, this team aint winning 30+. Specially when Lavine is out for likely half of season. And not mention we dont have single wing who can defend opposite best player.

Butler is worth 10 games (which is a huge number). That drops the Bulls to 31 wins, maybe somewhat fewer with Wade being a year older, Rondo perhaps being gone. Meanwhile, the Wolves will win mid to high 40s, with Butler bringing them 10 new wins, and some improvement from their younger players. That's how I see it.

[HoopsterJones]

The Bulls have to be bad next year for this to be worthwhile. If they win 30+ games next year, this move is a failure. They need to be in the hunt for a top 5 pick.

I dont see how we do it. Unless Markkanen and Dunn ball out right of the gate and Wade is there to close the games, this team aint winning 30+. Specially when Lavine is out for likely half of season. And not mention we dont have single wing who can defend opposite best player.

Maybe I'll lower the bar to 25+ wins then. Either way, they need to be a bottom five team at the minimum. Also hopefully the young guys develop and show great potential.

[Stratmaster]

Hmm. Under contract:

Lopez
Portis/Mirotic/Markkanen
LaVine/Zipser
Wade/Valentine
Rondo/Dunn/Payne/Grant/Carter-Williams/Canaan

That's a ton of guards and a weak frontcourt. Something else has to happen, right?

I don't see MCW being back. Canaan could go in some type of move for a big. In a small ball approach Portis, and it would seem Markkanen, could play some Center (I am not sure about Markkanen...I just know he is a 7 footer). Grant and Canaan can play off-ball at the 2 (and possibly even Payne). But yes, there should be more to come!

The question is who has a bunch of cap space they want to save for 2018 off-season who might be willing to take wade off our hands. Hey, the Bulls might want him.

Lavine is a 2. He is only 6'5. Cant see him playing at the 3.

Agree. If the Bulls are serious about their direction the starting lineup without any more moves (and I expect there will be more moves to shore up the 3) looks like Dunn, Lavine, Zip (or acquisition), Niko and Lopez. Portis and Lauri get minutes at the 4 and 5.

What we will likely see instead is Rondo, Wade, Zip, Niko and Lopez lol Although seriously I don't see Rondo and Wade on the court together much, especially after Butler/Wade tried to pressure the FO into getting rid of Rondo.

All that to say...there has got to be a move to pick up a SF.

[MC3]

The Bulls have to be bad next year for this to be worthwhile. If they win 30+ games next year, this move is a failure. They need to be in the hunt for a top 5 pick.

I dont see how we do it. Unless Markkanen and Dunn ball out right of the gate and Wade is there to close the games, this team aint winning 30+. Specially when Lavine is out for likely half of season. And not mention we dont have single wing who can defend opposite best player.

Maybe I'll lower the bar to 25+ wins then. Either way, they need to be a bottom five team at the minimum. Also hopefully the young guys develop and show great potential.

Still I dont see it. Wade isnt anymore good to get us at 25+ wins, nor he will bother too much at his age. When he was in prime and Heat tanked he got them to 15-67. This as currently constructed roster is 20 win team.

[donaldtrump_00]

First post since the news started. Number 1 id like to choke pax and gar to death. Number 2 wade is the best thing that could happen to dunn and lavine. Teach them for a full season. Butler didnt make that leap on his own.wade is responsible for alot of it. Hes going to be the best player now. Rondo most likely is out. Dunn, payne, grant is way more then enough pg options with lavine being a combo guard.as well as wade.

The part we need to wait for is who else will fill the roster out. We need a starting sf. Hopefully zipser or valentine arent starting. Hopefully that 15.3 mill tpe is used. They talking about niko coming back. We need him cause he understands the system.we seen late bloomers before and he still can be a suprise with a new role as score at will now.

As flr the rookie i hope hes a steal. And idk why ppl are so down on kris dunn. He clearly was behind rubio all season and didnt get a chance. Let him start here getting 35 mins fog the 1st 15 games to see how he handles it. I think hes as good as rose in his rookie year,just some need to learn threw there mistakes. As for lavine hes a monster. Thats why they gave up the 16th pick. He was putting up 21 ppg with wiggins and towns. How is that not worth a gamble on.

Sure he tore his acl but rose can still do everything he did before he tore his, his prob was himself. Fear of reinjuring himself and saving his body. Lavine wont think like that. Im 100% sure he will make us believers n3xt season.with wade and lopez and niko and other players with upside especially valentine will get there chance to play through bad games and adjust and grow.

Come on bulls fans, one man down next one up. Butlers points will be replaced. The east is weak. They can pull a miami heat and shock the world. Idc what anybody says wade is a damn good player when he wants to be. He can lead them to the playoffs. He has shooters and two new super athlets on his team nowim sure hes more excited then anyone on the roster. Our 3 new players could all be studs and allstars. Its very possible. One last quick fact is lavine can be a 25ppg player right now. As i mentioned earlier 21 ppg at one point of last season. With no towns and wiggins how much can he give you??? Real talk.

[musiqsoulchild]

I think that's because fans live in the moment. We forget that the Bulls were a 0.500 team with Jimmy at the helm.

We want to "feel good" and want a 50 + win team that is a strong contender.

There is / was no iteration of the Chicago Bulls in 2016 and in 2017 that could have beaten the Cavaliers and then the Warriors. Or the Spurs.

So, the reality is that we are fighting for the Bronze medal. Gold and Silver are preordained in the NBA. There is ONLY one way to change that dynamic. And that is via cap space. And via trade.

The tanking route is NOT available to the FO. Otherwise, that would have happened by now.

The way you divert questions and spin them into something else is almost politician like, saying a bunch of stuff we already to fill air.

The tanking route is available to the front office. They're doing it right now. Reinsdorf signed off on it. The Bulls without Butler had terrible lineup numbers. They were among the worst in the league. By trading Butler, they have started a tank, rebuild or whatever you want to call it. Paxson alluded to as much today in his presser.

I don't understand why you bother. You talk about stuff as if it was gospel, pretending you have inside knowledge of what Paxson and Forman can and can't do, despite their own actions and words suggesting to the contrary.

I don't get it.

I don't know what your definition of tanking is. Mine is when an ENTIRE organisation writes off a season and tries their best to do badly in Win-Loss.

Do you honestly see the Bulls doing that?

The ONLY way I see that happening is if LeBron has already made up his mind on leaving the Cavs next season and joining a team with other superstars.

We are positioned perfectly for that small sliver of a chance of forming a super team. At which point, you'd have to acknowledge that the 2018 plan that the FO spoke about last season was accurate and well executed.

We have all kinds of assets in place to facilitate trades, 3 team trades, disgruntled Tier 2 stars, good players on bad contracts, superfriends.

That is what we achieved in one night.

[Rerisen]

I don't know what your definition of tanking is. Mine is when an ENTIRE organisation writes off a season and tries their best to do badly in Win-Loss.

Do you honestly see the Bulls doing that?

Why wouldn't they.

The difference between them even trying to add wins isn't going to be monumentally different than trying to lose.

Yet it might be just counter productive enough to ruin any chance at replacing a superstar in next years draft.

They'd have to be stupid not to see that.

I mean is a 26 win season going to cause fans to hang in there while a 18 win season won't? It's pointless, just tank all out. Or trading Jimmy was asinine.

[ATRAIN53]

Is there any glimmer of hope that LaVine doesn't pass his physical and this trade gets nixed?

Can that still happen and how awesome would that presser be.

Do we know if Tanya Harding's old boyfriend is out of jail?