2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery

[MGB8]

LaVine & Barrett are the starting guards and primary ball handlers. Not sure whats suspect about it.

They’re both very high usage players. I do not know when Lauri, Otto and WCJ are getting the ball, or how they’re getting the ball. The tweets alone explain it. RJ is not a complementary piece.

Zach for #3 I might consider. But I am high on Zach’s future and think there are legitimate questions about Barrett if he can’t become efficient.

I mean that is going to be an issue with almost anyone the Bulls are looking at.

Culver had the same 32.2% usage as RJ.

Even the PGs White and Garland the questions are how good of actual PGs they are. So you would still have the issue of distributing.

Big difference between Culver and RJ's usage.... RJ had Zion and Reddish. Culver had....

Yeah. Apples / Oranges. Heck, Apples / lightbulbs (or some other non-fruit).

[NewEra21]

Bulls get fleeced in that deal. New York does back flips and laughs at this trade. Every team in this trade gets better besides the bulls who take 3 steps back.

You just value Zach Lavine more than I do. He would better suited on a team like that. Option 2b or 3. Secondary creator. Still able to space the floor and let Zion go to work.

It would set the rebuild back about 1-2 years.
Sure we get a potential number 1 option cheaper but for rj to perform at Zach current level is 1 to 2 seasons away realistically.

Zach and RJ are both volume scorers. I have no doubts that RJ could be putting up 20 ppg year two if he wanted to. Funny enough that I think they both have to work on the same things, decision making, defense. But I'll take a chance on the kid who is 18 who dominated the toughest conference in basketball for the next 4 years (at 10 mil less a season) over the guy who still hasnt figured it out while being in the league for 5 years.

[wonderboy2]

Bulls get:
#3
Solomon Hill

Pelicans get:
#7
Zach Lavine
Mitchell Robinson

Knicks get:
Anthony Davis

I know the argument can be made that Bulls can just get cut out, but I guess it depends on how Pelicans wanna go from here. Lavine would form a nice backcourt duo with Holiday and still end up getting the the pick where there is strong chance someone like Hunter is available. Getting rid of Hill's contract for the year also frees up more money for you to spend on some quality free agents.

Holiday
Lavine
Hunter
Williamson
Robinson

That could be a real nice set up for now and into the future for the Pels.

The difference between Zach and Hill far far far far...outweighs the difference between the 3 and 7 pick in this draft. That’s just ugly for the Bulls while also helping the Knicks become another contender in the East (as I’d assume they land a big FA with AD in the fold)

To each his own. Im not viewing Hill as a player. Hes pure salary relief for the Pelicans. Allows the the Bulls to reallocate money around and go for different players in FA. Hell, this adds an extra 6 mil in cap for us this year and then 19 mil the year after. The upgrade from whoever we get at 7 to RJ Barrett is substantial.

With that extra money, we can throw it at someone like Brogdon. Run a jumbo lineup of
Brogdon
Barrett
Porter Jr
Markkanen
Carter Jr

When we want to go small, Barrett can easily slide to the 3, Porter to the 4. I like the look of this now and into the future.

Man it would be nice to get Brogdon but I read an article about the bucks being all in on Brogdon and they view him as part of thier core. Middleton will demand a max salary to. Imo Brogdon would be the perfect fit for the bulls with Lavine- Markannan ,Porter, Carter. But it looks like the bucks wont give him up and will match any offer.

[wonderboy2]

Are people forgetting when they tried to let Zach run it?
The turnovers and bad shots were through the roof.
I'd say Zach needs to be a better off-the-ball player, a 2, cause he ain't a 1.
He could also still add some weight/muscle too IMO.

Biggest myth here in this board. Yea when Lavine ran point guard he did turn the ball over but it was because he was getting trippledbteamed and he had no other option. But good things happened when Lavine ran point at times. Lavine got Lauri and Porter so many wide open looks it was Crazy. Teams also had nightmares guarding Lavine in those high ball screens. The turnovers was bad but somebody who faced the type of defensive attention Zach faced is going to turn the ball over. Look at guys like 1)Harden, 2)Westbrook 3) Devin Booker 4) Devin Booker 5) Trae young 6) Antetokounmpo 7) Doncic. All those guys had a turnover rates higher then Lavine and all played on teams that had significantly better offensive talent around them most of the season. Now is Lavine a full time pg? Hell no! But Lavine can definitely be a creator on ball at that posistion in stretches. That’s why a Brogdon would be the perfect fit for the bulls.

Let me put it another way, playing Zach at the 1 doesn't maximize what he is capable of. Just think about him playing the 2 with a true distributor, ideally a good defender as well. That sounds ideal. Now where to get that? Who knows? I'm not down on Zach, just feel he's more of a natural 2 and would thrive there a lot more than as a 1.

I agree that’s why I think Brogdon would be perfect,, he has high bb IQ, size to guard up to 3 positions, makes good decisions with the ball but also allows Zach to create at time and could be an Elite spot up shooter. But like I mentioned in the post above Bucks will likely match what the bulls could offer.

[bearadonisdna]

Are people forgetting when they tried to let Zach run it?
The turnovers and bad shots were through the roof.
I'd say Zach needs to be a better off-the-ball player, a 2, cause he ain't a 1.
He could also still add some weight/muscle too IMO.

Biggest myth here in this board. Yea when Lavine ran point guard he did turn the ball over but it was because he was getting trippledbteamed and he had no other option. But good things happened when Lavine ran point at times. Lavine got Lauri and Porter so many wide open looks it was Crazy. Teams also had nightmares guarding Lavine in those high ball screens. The turnovers was bad but somebody who faced the type of defensive attention Zach faced is going to turn the ball over. Look at guys like 1)Harden, 2)Westbrook 3) Devin Booker 4) Devin Booker 5) Trae young 6) Antetokounmpo 7) Doncic. All those guys had a turnover rates higher then Lavine and all played on teams that had significantly better offensive talent around them most of the season. Now is Lavine a full time pg? Hell no! But Lavine can definitely be a creator on ball at that posistion in stretches. That’s why a Brogdon would be the perfect fit for the bulls.

Agree with a lot of your post.
Basically Zach is the proverbial lead guard.
Full time point guard? No. Which is why it's important for the bulls next guard to have combo guard skills.

[kodo]

Let me put it another way, playing Zach at the 1 doesn't maximize what he is capable of. Just think about him playing the 2 with a true distributor, ideally a good defender as well. That sounds ideal. Now where to get that? Who knows? I'm not down on Zach, just feel he's more of a natural 2 and would thrive there a lot more than as a 1.

Agreed, the main reason to avoid Zach at the 1 is that the SG is much more difficult position to fill with high volume production.

Zach's 18.79 PER puts him at the 6th highest SG in the league in terms of that one stat.
The guys ahead of him are much older (Lou, Derozan) or supermax guys (Butler, Booker).
He's ahead of Donovan Mitchell, CJ, Klay, Levert, Josh Richardson.

PGs? The league's top PGs are all available: Irving, Kemba, Conley, CP3, Rose, Russell, Holiday, Brogdon.

Lavine is also a top 3 player on Drives.
https://stats.nba.com/players/drives/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DRIVE_PTS_PCT&dir=1&CF=DRIVES*G*10
1. Harden
2. Giannis
3. Lavine
4. Kawhi
5. Lebron
Reality check: Chicago is not getting any of the other 4 players on that list.

And did we mention compared to all the players above, Lavine is locked into a contract for below $20M per year with no raises? He'll be making $19M in 2022 when guys his level will be making $40M+, and he'll be 26.

At 23, Lavine is one part of the team you don't mess with.

[Ccwatercraft]

The difference between Zach and Hill far far far far...outweighs the difference between the 3 and 7 pick in this draft. That’s just ugly for the Bulls while also helping the Knicks become another contender in the East (as I’d assume they land a big FA with AD in the fold)

To each his own. Im not viewing Hill as a player. Hes pure salary relief for the Pelicans. Allows the the Bulls to reallocate money around and go for different players in FA. Hell, this adds an extra 6 mil in cap for us this year and then 19 mil the year after. The upgrade from whoever we get at 7 to RJ Barrett is substantial.

With that extra money, we can throw it at someone like Brogdon. Run a jumbo lineup of
Brogdon
Barrett
Porter Jr
Markkanen
Carter Jr

When we want to go small, Barrett can easily slide to the 3, Porter to the 4. I like the look of this now and into the future.

Man it would be nice to get Brogdon but I read an article about the bucks being all in on Brogdon and they view him as part of thier core. Middleton will demand a max salary to. Imo Brogdon would be the perfect fit for the bulls with Lavine- Markannan ,Porter, Carter. But it looks like the bucks wont give him up and will match any offer.

ya, besides the fact that he'd first have to accept our offer before they can match. ( right?) No guarantee that he even is considering us for a possible destination, at the very least I assume he'll get offers from more than one franchise and will consider them all as well as discussing options directly with the Bucks. Either way Milwaukee will have to pay up.

I personally was less excited about signing him after watching their last two series, he's good, but he's not that dynamic, didn't do anything that special from what I saw, just very efficient and overall I know he shoots high % but he didn't appear to be that good on his own, just played well within the system.

[Kurt Heimlich]

To each his own. Im not viewing Hill as a player. Hes pure salary relief for the Pelicans. Allows the the Bulls to reallocate money around and go for different players in FA. Hell, this adds an extra 6 mil in cap for us this year and then 19 mil the year after. The upgrade from whoever we get at 7 to RJ Barrett is substantial.

With that extra money, we can throw it at someone like Brogdon. Run a jumbo lineup of
Brogdon
Barrett
Porter Jr
Markkanen
Carter Jr

When we want to go small, Barrett can easily slide to the 3, Porter to the 4. I like the look of this now and into the future.

Man it would be nice to get Brogdon but I read an article about the bucks being all in on Brogdon and they view him as part of thier core. Middleton will demand a max salary to. Imo Brogdon would be the perfect fit for the bulls with Lavine- Markannan ,Porter, Carter. But it looks like the bucks wont give him up and will match any offer.

ya, besides the fact that he'd first have to accept our offer before they can match. ( right?) No guarantee that he even is considering us for a possible destination, at the very least I assume he'll get offers from more than one franchise and will consider them all as well as discussing options directly with the Bucks. Either way Milwaukee will have to pay up.

I personally was less excited about signing him after watching their last two series, he's good, but he's not that dynamic, didn't do anything that special from what I saw, just very efficient and overall I know he shoots high % but he didn't appear to be that good on his own, just played well within the system.

I think your expectation is on point. He should be considered at 6'5'' Otto Porter basically. High efficiency low-medium usage player who is a dependable and versatile defender. Not a primary distributor but can function in the primary or secondary role if asked upon at an acceptable level.

But IMO if you can fill your lineup with 4-5 guys who can all handle/pass the rock, you'll get something similar to what we're seeing from the Raptors and Warriors. No one player pounding the rock at the top of the key for 15-18 seconds. It's ball movement, penetration, kick outs. Filling your roster with versatile guys who can do that is the name of the game.

[Ccwatercraft]

Man it would be nice to get Brogdon but I read an article about the bucks being all in on Brogdon and they view him as part of thier core. Middleton will demand a max salary to. Imo Brogdon would be the perfect fit for the bulls with Lavine- Markannan ,Porter, Carter. But it looks like the bucks wont give him up and will match any offer.

ya, besides the fact that he'd first have to accept our offer before they can match. ( right?) No guarantee that he even is considering us for a possible destination, at the very least I assume he'll get offers from more than one franchise and will consider them all as well as discussing options directly with the Bucks. Either way Milwaukee will have to pay up.

I personally was less excited about signing him after watching their last two series, he's good, but he's not that dynamic, didn't do anything that special from what I saw, just very efficient and overall I know he shoots high % but he didn't appear to be that good on his own, just played well within the system.

I think your expectation is on point. He should be considered at 6'5'' Otto Porter basically. High efficiency low-medium usage player who is a dependable and versatile defender. Not a primary distributor but can function in the primary or secondary role if asked upon at an acceptable level.

But IMO if you can fill your lineup with 4-5 guys who can all handle/pass the rock, you'll get something similar to what we're seeing from the Raptors and Warriors. No one player pounding the rock at the top of the key for 15-18 seconds. It's ball movement, penetration, kick outs. Filling your roster with versatile guys who can do that is the name of the game.

yes, I used the Otto Porter of PG's analogy the other day and it seemed to fit well enough. Stat's wise they were pretty similar and it makes for better basketball at least for me as a fan, vs watching Harden doing what you described then getting fouled so we can watch him shoot free throws. I turned off a lot of houston games during the season because it got pretty boring as a fan, found myself looking for my phone because the games weren't enjoyable with him in it then finally just rummaging around netflix for something better.

[StunnerKO]

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[Rani858]

Lance thomas + Frank Ntilikina + 3rd pick for 7th pick

Knicks creating 16M for free agency market

Bulls could sign PG by MLE (George Hill)

[bearadonisdna]

Lance thomas + Frank Ntilikina + 3rd pick for 7th pick

Knicks creating 16M for free agency market

Bulls could sign PG by MLE (George Hill)

That would be awesome, lol

[Indomitable]

After reading this I feel better about Pax making the decision.

[sco]

Lance thomas + Frank Ntilikina + 3rd pick for 7th pick

Knicks creating 16M for free agency market

Bulls could sign PG by MLE (George Hill)

How funny would that be. I really want our money for Brogdon, but I would do that deal.

[Chi town]

Let me put it another way, playing Zach at the 1 doesn't maximize what he is capable of. Just think about him playing the 2 with a true distributor, ideally a good defender as well. That sounds ideal. Now where to get that? Who knows? I'm not down on Zach, just feel he's more of a natural 2 and would thrive there a lot more than as a 1.

Agreed, the main reason to avoid Zach at the 1 is that the SG is much more difficult position to fill with high volume production.

Zach's 18.79 PER puts him at the 6th highest SG in the league in terms of that one stat.
The guys ahead of him are much older (Lou, Derozan) or supermax guys (Butler, Booker).
He's ahead of Donovan Mitchell, CJ, Klay, Levert, Josh Richardson.

PGs? The league's top PGs are all available: Irving, Kemba, Conley, CP3, Rose, Russell, Holiday, Brogdon.

Lavine is also a top 3 player on Drives.
https://stats.nba.com/players/drives/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DRIVE_PTS_PCT&dir=1&CF=DRIVES*G*10
1. Harden
2. Giannis
3. Lavine
4. Kawhi
5. Lebron
Reality check: Chicago is not getting any of the other 4 players on that list.

And did we mention compared to all the players above, Lavine is locked into a contract for below $20M per year with no raises? He'll be making $19M in 2022 when guys his level will be making $40M+, and he'll be 26.

At 23, Lavine is one part of the team you don't mess with.

m

Thank. You.

[cjbulls]

Lance thomas + Frank Ntilikina + 3rd pick for 7th pick

Knicks creating 16M for free agency market

Bulls could sign PG by MLE (George Hill)

Lance Thomas salary is non-guaranteed so Knicks don’t need the salary relief. Unfortunately, the salary websites are bad at displaying non-guaranteed deals.

[bearadonisdna]

Lance thomas + Frank Ntilikina + 3rd pick for 7th pick

Knicks creating 16M for free agency market

Bulls could sign PG by MLE (George Hill)

How funny would that be. I really want our money for Brogdon, but I would do that deal.

Would throw in bulls next 1st rounder tbh.
It's worth it to get into top 3.
Otto being a better sf than rj for our system provides context to me about ottos value.
Which is good actually.

Zach and Barrett is as dangerous a backcourt I can imagine. If the Knicks wanted to do business with the bulls id be all ears, because they are the gate holders at the 3rd pick.

[Chi town]

They’re both very high usage players. I do not know when Lauri, Otto and WCJ are getting the ball, or how they’re getting the ball. The tweets alone explain it. RJ is not a complementary piece.

Zach for #3 I might consider. But I am high on Zach’s future and think there are legitimate questions about Barrett if he can’t become efficient.

I mean that is going to be an issue with almost anyone the Bulls are looking at.

Culver had the same 32.2% usage as RJ.

Even the PGs White and Garland the questions are how good of actual PGs they are. So you would still have the issue of distributing.

Big difference between Culver and RJ's usage.... RJ had Zion and Reddish. Culver had....

Yeah. Apples / Oranges. Heck, Apples / lightbulbs (or some other non-fruit).

I think Culver is going to be a much better NBA player than barrett. His defense alone will be elite. Once he gets around players that can shoot and finish and he can be a secondary playmaker he will thrive. He’s like Otto with an advanced handle and more versatility on D. That’s a damn good player.

[waffle]

Are people forgetting when they tried to let Zach run it?
The turnovers and bad shots were through the roof.
I'd say Zach needs to be a better off-the-ball player, a 2, cause he ain't a 1.
He could also still add some weight/muscle too IMO.

Biggest myth here in this board. Yea when Lavine ran point guard he did turn the ball over but it was because he was getting trippledbteamed and he had no other option. But good things happened when Lavine ran point at times. Lavine got Lauri and Porter so many wide open looks it was Crazy. Teams also had nightmares guarding Lavine in those high ball screens. The turnovers was bad but somebody who faced the type of defensive attention Zach faced is going to turn the ball over. Look at guys like 1)Harden, 2)Westbrook 3) Devin Booker 4) Devin Booker 5) Trae young 6) Antetokounmpo 7) Doncic. All those guys had a turnover rates higher then Lavine and all played on teams that had significantly better offensive talent around them most of the season. Now is Lavine a full time pg? Hell no! But Lavine can definitely be a creator on ball at that posistion in stretches. That’s why a Brogdon would be the perfect fit for the bulls.

Agree with a lot of your post.
Basically Zach is the proverbial lead guard.
Full time point guard? No. Which is why it's important for the bulls next guard to have combo guard skills.

Lavine is an underrated ball handler. He is SHIFTY and hard to guard.

[Jcool0]

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