Way too early NBA draft thread 2021

[jump]

Can we butt draft him? I’m good with that.

[StunnerKO]

Obviously the Warriors would never do that. You could remove both picks and the Warriors would say no.

The Bulls would get 10 cents on the dollar after watching him flop with the team and not make the playoffs. We are stuck with him.

What are you talking about?

The team flopping had zero to do with Vuc and almost everything to do with LaVine entering the COVID protocol at a very inopportune time, then hurting his ankle.

Bulls were 11-15 with Vucevic.

Bulls were 7-8 with both Zach and Vucevic.

WOW! Do you know when the rings are getting sized?

Who thinks the Bulls were successful after the trade? Hopefully no one.

Lavine was also playing on a bad ankle that didn’t get better till he came back from COVID so that 7-8 doesn’t tell the entire story

[gardenofsound]

Obviously the Warriors would never do that. You could remove both picks and the Warriors would say no.

The Bulls would get 10 cents on the dollar after watching him flop with the team and not make the playoffs. We are stuck with him.

What are you talking about?

The team flopping had zero to do with Vuc and almost everything to do with LaVine entering the COVID protocol at a very inopportune time, then hurting his ankle.

Bulls were 11-15 with Vucevic.

Bulls were 7-8 with both Zach and Vucevic.

WOW! Do you know when the rings are getting sized?

Who thinks the Bulls were successful after the trade? Hopefully no one.

Okay, I'll hold the LaVine comment for a moment...

You're using a metric (wins) and pinning that on a single player (Vucevic) to make the case that his value has completely tanked, when there are a lot of other factors at play. This is basketball, not baseball. The fact is that it's a team game and it's extremely hard to measure the value of a player by wins alone, which is what you seem to be doing. Association or correlation =/= causation.

By this logic, Dwyane Wade circa 2008 was a negative value player and the Heat would have been lucky for another team to take him in a salary dump because that team won 15 games. This logic is flawed. Did anyone here say that the Bulls are winning the championship with these two? Certainly not without any other MAJOR roster changes or development from PW/Coby...

Let's dig into the games, though:
@SAS. Loss. First game with a new team. Vucevic 21/9/3
@GSW. Loss. Vucevic 21/9/6. Zach 4/16 for 12 points.
@PHX. Loss. Vucevic 24/10/3. No LaVine. Booker 45 points.
@UTA. Loss. Vucevic 16/8/4. Not a great game efficiency-wise and the Gobert effect is at play.
vs BKN. Win. Vucevic 22/13/2
@IND. Win. Vucevic 32/16/5.
@TOR. Win. Vucevic 22/7/4.
@ATL. Loss. Vucevic 25/10/2.
@MIN. Loss. Vucevic 18/5/5 on 13 shots.
@MEM. Loss. Vucevic 17/10/1 with 5 steals.
vs ORL. Loss. Vucevic 29/11/1

----LaVine enters COVID protocol----

vs MEM. Loss. Vucevic 24/14/6
vs CLE. Win. Vucevic 25/7/5
@BOS. Win. Vucevic 29/9/2
@CLE. Loss. Vucevic 9/5/2.
vsCHA. Win. Vucevic 18/16/6
@MIA. Loss. Vucevic 26/14/6
@MIA. Win. Vucevic 24/11/2
@NYK. Loss. Vucevic 26/18/3
vsMKE. Loss. Vucevic 17/15/4

@ATL. Loss. Vucevic OUT
vsPHI. Loss. Vucevic OUT

----LaVine returns----

@CHA. Win. Vucevic 29/14/3
vsBOS. Win. Vucevic 18/14/10 triple double
@DET. Win. Vucevic 29/16/2
vsBKN. Loss. Vucevic 12/12/6. Not a great game.
vsTOR. Win. Vucevic 16/16/6

----LaVine back out----
@BKN. Loss. Vucevic 10/11/3... BKN playing for playoff seeding.
vsMKE. Win. Vucevic OUT.

29 games... 26 with Vucevic in.

Of those 26, 17 were on the road and 10 were without LaVine. And it was said numerous times that the Bulls' schedule down the stretch would be very difficult.

Vucevic is arguably a top 5 center in this league behind Embiid, Jokic, KAT and Gobert... and he's owed FAR less money than any of them. He's an efficient scorer, an effective rebounder, and a playmaker who doesn't commit many turnovers.

Your contention that the Bulls would get "ten cents on the dollar" for his production is off base. He would be a great fit next to an all-defense PF like Draymond and would probably elevate the Warriors back to being title contenders if not favorites out of the WC. And in this scenario he would also bring the Warriors tax bill down significantly. Talent/timeline upgrade AND money savings? Yeah, that's worth something.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

What are you talking about?

The team flopping had zero to do with Vuc and almost everything to do with LaVine entering the COVID protocol at a very inopportune time, then hurting his ankle.

Bulls were 11-15 with Vucevic.

Bulls were 7-8 with both Zach and Vucevic.

WOW! Do you know when the rings are getting sized?

Who thinks the Bulls were successful after the trade? Hopefully no one.

Lavine was also playing on a bad ankle that didn’t get better till he came back from COVID so that 7-8 doesn’t tell the entire story

Injury narrative isn’t one that makes the Bulls look good in those 15 games. The in-actives lists of their opponents is long and extensive, reads like a list of future hall of gamers.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

What are you talking about?

The team flopping had zero to do with Vuc and almost everything to do with LaVine entering the COVID protocol at a very inopportune time, then hurting his ankle.

Bulls were 11-15 with Vucevic.

Bulls were 7-8 with both Zach and Vucevic.

WOW! Do you know when the rings are getting sized?

Who thinks the Bulls were successful after the trade? Hopefully no one.

Okay, I'll hold the LaVine comment for a moment...

You're using a metric (wins) and pinning that on a single player (Vucevic) to make the case that his value has completely tanked, when there are a lot of other factors at play. This is basketball, not baseball. The fact is that it's a team game and it's extremely hard to measure the value of a player by wins alone, which is what you seem to be doing. Association or correlation =/= causation.

By this logic, Dwyane Wade circa 2008 was a negative value player and the Heat would have been lucky for another team to take him in a salary dump because that team won 15 games. This logic is flawed. Did anyone here say that the Bulls are winning the championship with these two? Certainly not without any other MAJOR roster changes or development from PW/Coby...

Let's dig into the games, though:
@SAS. Loss. First game with a new team. Vucevic 21/9/3 Don't think they include asterisks for first games in the standings.
@GSW. Loss. Vucevic 21/9/6. Zach 4/16 for 12 points.
@PHX. Loss. Vucevic 24/10/3. No LaVine. Booker 45 points.
@UTA. Loss. Vucevic 16/8/4. Not a great game efficiency-wise and the Gobert effect is at play.
vs BKN. Win. Vucevic 22/13/2 No Durant, No Harden
@IND. Win. Vucevic 32/16/5. No Brogdon, No Sabonis, No Warren (he'll be back next year)
@TOR. Win. Vucevic 22/7/4. No Lowry, no FVV
@ATL. Loss. Vucevic 25/10/2.
@MIN. Loss. Vucevic 18/5/5 on 13 shots.
@MEM. Loss. Vucevic 17/10/1 with 5 steals.
vs ORL. Loss. Vucevic 29/11/1

----LaVine enters COVID protocol----

vs MEM. Loss. Vucevic 24/14/6
vs CLE. Win. Vucevic 25/7/5
@BOS. Win. Vucevic 29/9/2
@CLE. Loss. Vucevic 9/5/2.
vsCHA. Win. Vucevic 18/16/6
@MIA. Loss. Vucevic 26/14/6
@MIA. Win. Vucevic 24/11/2
@NYK. Loss. Vucevic 26/18/3
vsMKE. Loss. Vucevic 17/15/4

@ATL. Loss. Vucevic OUT
vsPHI. Loss. Vucevic OUT

----LaVine returns----

@CHA. Win. Vucevic 29/14/3 No Bridges, No Graham, No Hayward
vsBOS. Win. Vucevic 18/14/10 triple double No Jaylen Brown
@DET. Win. Vucevic 29/16/2 Yay, beat a healthy team.
vsBKN. Loss. Vucevic 12/12/6. Not a great game.
vsTOR. Win. Vucevic 16/16/6 No Siakim, No OG, No FVV, No Kyle. Yikes.

----LaVine back out----
@BKN. Loss. Vucevic 10/11/3... BKN playing for playoff seeding.
vsMKE. Win. Vucevic OUT.

29 games... 26 with Vucevic in.

Of those 26, 17 were on the road and 10 were without LaVine. And it was said numerous times that the Bulls' schedule down the stretch would be very difficult.

Vucevic is arguably a top 5 center in this league behind Embiid, Jokic, KAT and Gobert... and he's owed FAR less money than any of them. He's an efficient scorer, an effective rebounder, and a playmaker who doesn't commit many turnovers.

Your contention that the Bulls would get "ten cents on the dollar" for his production is off base. He would be a great fit next to an all-defense PF like Draymond and would probably elevate the Warriors back to being title contenders if not favorites out of the WC. And in this scenario he would also bring the Warriors tax bill down significantly. Talent/timeline upgrade AND money savings? Yeah, that's worth something.

1. Wins are inherently tied to the value of the top players, it's how it's been in the NBA for a long time.
2. Vucevic put up good counting stats, like he always does. It didn't help the team win games. His defensive struggles are well known in the league.
3. A lot of his stats actually got lower in Chicago. Not significantly, but lower.
4. To trade a great deal of capital for an allstar and then get passed by the Wizards for the playoffs was a massive disappointment.
5. There was nothing tough about the Bulls schedule down the stretch. The amount of players that sat when they played the Bulls is astounding. Tough on paper, but need to watch the games. Their 7 wins together were almost all against bad teams on the court, as I noted in RED above
4. Many people were skeptical of the trade the moment it happened. And then the end result was actually worse than expected. Vucevic's value is lower today than it was on trade day, and lots of people think the Bulls overpaid then.

I strongly encourage you and/or anyone that agrees Wiggins, 2 picks, and Wiseman for Vuc works for GSW to simply post it on the trade board. That's all. I think some of the homers here deserve a rude awakening every once and a while. But maybe I'm wrong.

I actually think there can be internal growth and this team will get better next year. But his value is no where close to what is being suggested.

[StunnerKO]

Please AK

Watch on YouTube

[StunnerKO]

Watch on YouTube

[StunnerKO]

Watch on YouTube

[Lexluthor]

I would not mind drafting another euro player or Brandon Boston

[StunnerKO]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[gardenofsound]

Bulls were 11-15 with Vucevic.

Bulls were 7-8 with both Zach and Vucevic.

WOW! Do you know when the rings are getting sized?

Who thinks the Bulls were successful after the trade? Hopefully no one.

Okay, I'll hold the LaVine comment for a moment...

You're using a metric (wins) and pinning that on a single player (Vucevic) to make the case that his value has completely tanked, when there are a lot of other factors at play. This is basketball, not baseball. The fact is that it's a team game and it's extremely hard to measure the value of a player by wins alone, which is what you seem to be doing. Association or correlation =/= causation.

By this logic, Dwyane Wade circa 2008 was a negative value player and the Heat would have been lucky for another team to take him in a salary dump because that team won 15 games. This logic is flawed. Did anyone here say that the Bulls are winning the championship with these two? Certainly not without any other MAJOR roster changes or development from PW/Coby...

Let's dig into the games, though:
@SAS. Loss. First game with a new team. Vucevic 21/9/3 Don't think they include asterisks for first games in the standings.
@GSW. Loss. Vucevic 21/9/6. Zach 4/16 for 12 points.
@PHX. Loss. Vucevic 24/10/3. No LaVine. Booker 45 points.
@UTA. Loss. Vucevic 16/8/4. Not a great game efficiency-wise and the Gobert effect is at play.
vs BKN. Win. Vucevic 22/13/2 No Durant, No Harden
@IND. Win. Vucevic 32/16/5. No Brogdon, No Sabonis, No Warren (he'll be back next year)
@TOR. Win. Vucevic 22/7/4. No Lowry, no FVV
@ATL. Loss. Vucevic 25/10/2.
@MIN. Loss. Vucevic 18/5/5 on 13 shots.
@MEM. Loss. Vucevic 17/10/1 with 5 steals.
vs ORL. Loss. Vucevic 29/11/1

----LaVine enters COVID protocol----

vs MEM. Loss. Vucevic 24/14/6
vs CLE. Win. Vucevic 25/7/5
@BOS. Win. Vucevic 29/9/2
@CLE. Loss. Vucevic 9/5/2.
vsCHA. Win. Vucevic 18/16/6
@MIA. Loss. Vucevic 26/14/6
@MIA. Win. Vucevic 24/11/2
@NYK. Loss. Vucevic 26/18/3
vsMKE. Loss. Vucevic 17/15/4

@ATL. Loss. Vucevic OUT
vsPHI. Loss. Vucevic OUT

----LaVine returns----

@CHA. Win. Vucevic 29/14/3 No Bridges, No Graham, No Hayward
vsBOS. Win. Vucevic 18/14/10 triple double No Jaylen Brown
@DET. Win. Vucevic 29/16/2 Yay, beat a healthy team.
vsBKN. Loss. Vucevic 12/12/6. Not a great game.
vsTOR. Win. Vucevic 16/16/6 No Siakim, No OG, No FVV, No Kyle. Yikes.

----LaVine back out----
@BKN. Loss. Vucevic 10/11/3... BKN playing for playoff seeding.
vsMKE. Win. Vucevic OUT.

29 games... 26 with Vucevic in.

Of those 26, 17 were on the road and 10 were without LaVine. And it was said numerous times that the Bulls' schedule down the stretch would be very difficult.

Vucevic is arguably a top 5 center in this league behind Embiid, Jokic, KAT and Gobert... and he's owed FAR less money than any of them. He's an efficient scorer, an effective rebounder, and a playmaker who doesn't commit many turnovers.

Your contention that the Bulls would get "ten cents on the dollar" for his production is off base. He would be a great fit next to an all-defense PF like Draymond and would probably elevate the Warriors back to being title contenders if not favorites out of the WC. And in this scenario he would also bring the Warriors tax bill down significantly. Talent/timeline upgrade AND money savings? Yeah, that's worth something.

1. Wins are inherently tied to the value of the top players, it's how it's been in the NBA for a long time.
2. Vucevic put up good counting stats, like he always does. It didn't help the team win games. His defensive struggles are well known in the league.
3. A lot of his stats actually got lower in Chicago. Not significantly, but lower.
4. To trade a great deal of capital for an allstar and then get passed by the Wizards for the playoffs was a massive disappointment.
5. There was nothing tough about the Bulls schedule down the stretch. The amount of players that sat when they played the Bulls is astounding. Tough on paper, but need to watch the games. Their 7 wins together were almost all against bad teams on the court, as I noted in RED above
4. Many people were skeptical of the trade the moment it happened. And then the end result was actually worse than expected. Vucevic's value is lower today than it was on trade day, and lots of people think the Bulls overpaid then.

I strongly encourage you and/or anyone that agrees Wiggins, 2 picks, and Wiseman for Vuc works for GSW to simply post it on the trade board. That's all. I think some of the homers here deserve a rude awakening every once and a while. But maybe I'm wrong.

I actually think there can be internal growth and this team will get better next year. But his value is no where close to what is being suggested.

Fair enough. My main point is that I don't see his value as meaningfully different than it was when the Bulls acquired him. The $0.10 on the dollar comment did not (and still does not) make sense, but we can agree to disagree. I don't pin the Bulls' losing on him and generally think he was a positive contributor to an otherwise bad team.

I actually said (or at least implied) that two draft picks from GSW would probably be a stretch, and also made clear that this is definitely not the direction the Bulls are going in, so it was already moot. We've both probably spent more time debating this than either of us cared to lol.

[Almost Retired]

Read on Twitter

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Giddey will go in the Top 10. Matter of fact I don't think he will last past the Thunder with the 6th Pick. And if he does then Golden State would probably snap him up at #7.

[StunnerKO]

Read on Twitter

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[StunnerKO]

Watch on YouTube

[DuckIII]

I wonder if there is any way to salvage this **** show of a Bulls draft and find a team who would rather have Coby White than Josh Giddey or Sharife Cooper?

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Kind of bizarre the Bulls are meeting with all these players.

Good to do due diligence, I supposed. I guess I'm accustomed to the last team who just promised guys and started vacation early.

[Pax for Prez]

Kind of bizarre the Bulls are meeting with all these players.

Good to do due diligence, I supposed. I guess I'm accustomed to the last team who just promised guys and started vacation early.

Maybe AK/ME purchase a late 1st round pick ?

[StunnerKO]

Read on Twitter

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[Chicago-Bull-E]

Kind of bizarre the Bulls are meeting with all these players.

Good to do due diligence, I supposed. I guess I'm accustomed to the last team who just promised guys and started vacation early.

Maybe AK/ME purchase a late 1st round pick ?

That'd be great, but I think it's been a while since a 1st rounder has been outright purchased.

Remember when the Bulls essentially bought the 6th in the draft and drafted Luol Deng with it? Can we just do that again?

[DuckIII]

Kind of bizarre the Bulls are meeting with all these players.

Good to do due diligence, I supposed. I guess I'm accustomed to the last team who just promised guys and started vacation early.

At least they had their picks. I wanted GarPax fired for a couple years before it finally happened, but one of the things that always concerned me was the philosophy of whomever we replaced them with.

So far to say I’m not impressed would be a woeful understatement. Its not over though. I’m still waiting to see how this summer goes. But I’m very concerned.