Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[panthermark]

For the life of me I don't understand why the Bulls would give up their depth for Love. If you're the Wolves, do you do this deal without Mirotic and McD involved??


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You do it becaue top end talent wins.

If I'm the Wolves, I ask for plenty (yes, both rookies) + Taj.
If I'm the Bulls I give up both rookies + Taj + MDJ + picks if need be to get both.

It isn't lke you do this trade, and are now forced to play with a 6 man roster or something. You will fill in the rest, and you still have enough players to give your starters a breather.

Brooks, Hinrich, Snell, Bear-toes, and Gasol are still on the team. You are a Marion and Nazr away from having plenty of depth. And more importantly, you can maximize your starters AND your resreves. That is something you cannot do with the depth trade becuase you simply don't have the minutes available. Are you going to cut a better players minutes in order to get a lesser player on the court just to play your depth? That makes your team worse, not better. I can see if you are trying to keep your minutes down on aging players...but the depth trade does not even do that because the back-ups behind Noah and Gasol are young and unproven, and neither can really play center.

[DanTown8587]

If the deal was the proposed McDermott, Gibson, and Mirotic here is the team

Rose - Martin - Butler - Love - Noah

That leaves close to the following minutes in a playoff game
PG- 10
SG - 18
SF - 15
PF - 10
C - 10

Hinrich - 10 minutes
Snell/Hinrich - 18 minutes
Dunleavy - 15 minutes
Gasol - 20 minutes

Boom. Plenty of death.

[Chi]

If the deal was the proposed McDermott, Gibson, and Mirotic here is the team

Rose - Martin - Butler - Love - Noah

That leaves close to the following minutes in a playoff game
PG- 10
SG - 18
SF - 15
PF - 10
C - 10

Hinrich - 10 minutes
Snell/Hinrich - 18 minutes
Dunleavy - 15 minutes
Gasol - 20 minutes

Boom. Plenty of death.

Would look a lot better with The Matrix in there...

[DanTown8587]

If the deal was the proposed McDermott, Gibson, and Mirotic here is the team

Rose - Martin - Butler - Love - Noah

That leaves close to the following minutes in a playoff game
PG- 10
SG - 18
SF - 15
PF - 10
C - 10

Hinrich - 10 minutes
Snell/Hinrich - 18 minutes
Dunleavy - 15 minutes
Gasol - 20 minutes

Boom. Plenty of death.

Would look a lot better with The Matrix in there...

I have no desire to have Shawn Marion on this team.

2013-14
Marion On -133
Marion Off +330

2012-13
Marion On - 161
Marion Off +112

2011-12
Marion On - 81
Marion Off +143

No thanks. I really don't see the value of playing him over Dunleavy or Jimmy.

[Chi]

If the deal was the proposed McDermott, Gibson, and Mirotic here is the team

Rose - Martin - Butler - Love - Noah

That leaves close to the following minutes in a playoff game
PG- 10
SG - 18
SF - 15
PF - 10
C - 10

Hinrich - 10 minutes
Snell/Hinrich - 18 minutes
Dunleavy - 15 minutes
Gasol - 20 minutes

Boom. Plenty of death.

Would look a lot better with The Matrix in there...

I have no desire to have Shawn Marion on this team.

2013-14
Marion On -133
Marion Off +330

2012-13
Marion On - 161
Marion Off +112

2011-12
Marion On - 81
Marion Off +143

No thanks. I really don't see the value of playing him over Dunleavy or Jimmy.

Hopefully you'll understand after we get him.

[waffle]

I think Minny is going to regret not getting something done around draft time

Lots of potential big name FA's next year. Love will just be one of them and he will have all of the leverage.

This was the time to get something done.

NO WAY we give up what has been proposed (Niko, McB, Taj). Just isn't happening

[Concept Coop]

For the life of me I don't understand why the Bulls would give up their depth for Love. If you're the Wolves, do you do this deal without Mirotic and McD involved??


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You do it becaue top end talent wins.

I'm surprised how many people don't agree with this. It's a no-brainer for me. The guy is 25, and just put up 26/12.5/4.5 with a top 3 PER.

[DRoseCantStop]

If the deal was the proposed McDermott, Gibson, and Mirotic here is the team

Rose - Martin - Butler - Love - Noah

That leaves close to the following minutes in a playoff game
PG- 10
SG - 18
SF - 15
PF - 10
C - 10

Hinrich - 10 minutes
Snell/Hinrich - 18 minutes
Dunleavy - 15 minutes
Gasol - 20 minutes

Boom. Plenty of death.

Would look a lot better with The Matrix in there...

I have no desire to have Shawn Marion on this team.

2013-14
Marion On -133
Marion Off +330

2012-13
Marion On - 161
Marion Off +112

2011-12
Marion On - 81
Marion Off +143

No thanks. I really don't see the value of playing him over Dunleavy or Jimmy.

Elite defender and we got Tom Thibodeau as our coach. Him and Butler trapping Lebron in the playoffs would be a thing of beauty.

[Ralphb07]

If the deal was the proposed McDermott, Gibson, and Mirotic here is the team

Rose - Martin - Butler - Love - Noah

That leaves close to the following minutes in a playoff game
PG- 10
SG - 18
SF - 15
PF - 10
C - 10

Hinrich - 10 minutes
Snell/Hinrich - 18 minutes
Dunleavy - 15 minutes
Gasol - 20 minutes

Boom. Plenty of death.

We'd could even go with Brooks, Kirk, Dunleavy and Gasol with Snell as insurance and used for defense and size.

Edit: Dunleavy would need to be included to make the reported deal work. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the rumor deal was not proposed and it's Gibson, Butler and one of Nikola/Doug as the other big piece.

[Ice Man]

2013-14
Marion On -133
Marion Off +330

2012-13
Marion On - 161
Marion Off +112

2011-12
Marion On - 81
Marion Off +143

Those numbers are terrible.

For comparison's sake -
2013-14
Boozer On -29
Boozer Off +152

Marion 3 years ago was Boozer of last year, and he's only been declining since then. No thanks. No way. No how.

[Jcool0]

For the life of me I don't understand why the Bulls would give up their depth for Love. If you're the Wolves, do you do this deal without Mirotic and McD involved??


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You do it becaue top end talent wins.

I'm surprised how many people don't agree with this. It's a no-brainer for me. The guy is 25, and just put up 26/12.5/4.5 with a top 3 PER.

But he wouldn't be putting up those numbers on the Bulls.

[Chitownbulls]

Marion would be really nice.

[Concept Coop]

But he wouldn't be putting up those numbers on the Bulls.

Maybe not, but 23/11/2 is well worth what we'd be giving up. He's a top 8 player in this league, and you don't pass on that for depth, in my opinion.

[DanTown8587]

Elite defender and we got Tom Thibodeau as our coach. Him and Butler trapping Lebron in the playoffs would be a thing of beauty.

I don't care what he used to be, he simply isn't the same guy he was when he wasn't 36 years old. Those plus/minus numbers are down right terrible and they are only better because he played with Dirk.

Marion and Dirk were +22 in 1300 minutes at +.8 per 100 possessions
Dirk was +302 in 1300 minutes without Marion at about +12 per 100 possessions
Marion was -153 in 1100 minutes without Nowitzki at about -7.2 per 100 possessions

No. We just got rid of one bad one net negative player and you want to add one of the only players with worse net ratings?

[DRoseCantStop]

Elite defender and we got Tom Thibodeau as our coach. Him and Butler trapping Lebron in the playoffs would be a thing of beauty.

I don't care what he used to be, he simply isn't the same guy he was when he wasn't 36 years old. Those plus/minus numbers are down right terrible and they are only better because he played with Dirk.

Marion and Dirk were +22 in 1300 minutes at +.8 per 100 possessions
Dirk was +302 in 1300 minutes without Marion at about +12 per 100 possessions
Marion was -153 in 1100 minutes without Nowitzki at about -7.2 per 100 possessions

No. We just got rid of one bad one net negative player and you want to add one of the only players with worse net ratings?

What do you mean "I don't care what he used to be"? Marion is still a very good defender. There's a reason why teams like San Antonio want him.

[panthermark]

We'd could even go with Brooks, Kirk, Dunleavy and Gasol with Snell as insurance and used for defense and size.

Edit: Dunleavy would need to be included to make the reported deal work. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the rumor deal was not proposed and it's Gibson, Butler and one of Nikola/Doug as the other big piece.

I've been meaning to go back and take a look.
I've also included MDJ in the trade for salary. But I know that the 150% rule applies to us. I just don't know if it has to apply to Minny as well. While both teams are under the tax, that rule includes things like TPE's, MLE's, etc... So Minny would not quaility. But if it only need to apply to us...I think we can get by without MDJ.
OMG...I want that trade so bad if we can keep both Snell and MDJ.
A bench of Brooks, Hinrich, Snell, MDJ, Bear-toes, Gasol, and a couple crusty defensive minded vets like Marion and Nazr would easily be more than enough.

Now...if they want Butler instead of both rooks....I put the brakes on EVERYTHING.
I know in my head that Butler is going to cost us some coin next year. But with Bron and George in the same division....I just can't let him go. Especially if Martin and Love will be in the starting line-up (along with probably a rookie in McD).

No....no....no....I'm not trying to give up 130 a game.

Can't do it. Having Butler on the wings for 34 minutes a night is what holds it all together.

Damn it, they better take our rookies and picks and like it!

[DanTown8587]

Elite defender and we got Tom Thibodeau as our coach. Him and Butler trapping Lebron in the playoffs would be a thing of beauty.

I don't care what he used to be, he simply isn't the same guy he was when he wasn't 36 years old. Those plus/minus numbers are down right terrible and they are only better because he played with Dirk.

Marion and Dirk were +22 in 1300 minutes at +.8 per 100 possessions
Dirk was +302 in 1300 minutes without Marion at about +12 per 100 possessions
Marion was -153 in 1100 minutes without Nowitzki at about -7.2 per 100 possessions

No. We just got rid of one bad one net negative player and you want to add one of the only players with worse net ratings?

What do you mean "I don't care what he used to be"? Marion is still a very good defender. There's a reason why teams like San Antonio want him.

Dallas gave up 6 more points per 100 possessions with Marion on the floor than off. While some of that is attributed to playing with starters (and thus against better offenses), he certainly isn't the impact defender he was once. Every thing about him is going the wrong way: older, slower, worse shooter, worse splits. No.

[panthermark]

Elite defender and we got Tom Thibodeau as our coach. Him and Butler trapping Lebron in the playoffs would be a thing of beauty.

I don't care what he used to be, he simply isn't the same guy he was when he wasn't 36 years old. Those plus/minus numbers are down right terrible and they are only better because he played with Dirk.

Marion and Dirk were +22 in 1300 minutes at +.8 per 100 possessions
Dirk was +302 in 1300 minutes without Marion at about +12 per 100 possessions
Marion was -153 in 1100 minutes without Nowitzki at about -7.2 per 100 possessions

No. We just got rid of one bad one net negative player and you want to add one of the only players with worse net ratings?

I understand (and agree) that Marion has lost a step...or two...or maybe even three.
But for the purposes of this team (as a reserve), I think he would be a good fit.

For some resaon...Dallas started him for 76 games last year and played him 31.7 minutes per game. He started 67 games the year before that and played 30 minutes per game.

Dude ain't a starter no more... And he sure as hell should not be playing + 30 minutes a night as starter.

But 15-18 off the bench as a defensive cover on bigger wings and stretch 4's?
Sign me up!

[Proven_Winner]

Elite defender and we got Tom Thibodeau as our coach. Him and Butler trapping Lebron in the playoffs would be a thing of beauty.

I don't care what he used to be, he simply isn't the same guy he was when he wasn't 36 years old. Those plus/minus numbers are down right terrible and they are only better because he played with Dirk.

Marion and Dirk were +22 in 1300 minutes at +.8 per 100 possessions
Dirk was +302 in 1300 minutes without Marion at about +12 per 100 possessions
Marion was -153 in 1100 minutes without Nowitzki at about -7.2 per 100 possessions

No. We just got rid of one bad one net negative player and you want to add one of the only players with worse net ratings?

I understand (and agree) that Marion has lost a step...or two...or maybe even three.
But for the purposes of this team (as a reserve), I think he would be a good fit.

For some resaon...Dallas started him for 76 games last year and played him 31.7 minutes per game. He started 67 games the year before that and played 30 minutes per game.

Dude ain't a starter no more... And he sure as hell should not be playing + 30 minutes a night as starter.

But 15-18 off the bench as a defensive cover on bigger wings and stretch 4's?
Sign me up!

It's just like the Boozer situation. If he was making less and coming off the bench he would be very valuable.

[BrooklynBulls]

Marion's totally fine for insurance on Jimmy Butler. We need another defensive wing and I don't see better ones on the market.