Official: Jimmy Butler, #16 to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn, #7 - merged/Justin Patton injured

[Am2626]

We don't even keep the #16 pick. so trash

Not too excited about this trade either. Trading Butler was the right move but they should have gotten more. Don't know why Wiggins wasn't the centerpiece of the deal. Lavine is coming off an ACL injury so there is no way to know if he will still be the same player. Look at Derrick Rose. And why did they give up #16?

It's very disappointing that such an iconic franchise is run by the the worst possible people ever.

What more could they get? Suns wouldn't give up #4 after they learned they'd get Jackson. Nuggets wouldn't part with Murray. Boston declined #3 or any 2018 pick. All per K.C.

Maybe, just maybe, the market for Butler wasn't that good.

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Maybe just maybe GarPax really suck at their jobs. Wonder if the same outcome would be expected if Pat Riley were doing the negotiations or if the Bulls were a more respected organization around the league. Once again it goes back to the fact that the wrong people are running this team at the top. This includes ownership and FO.

[GRADEN]

Last draft if we would've gotten the #4 to take Kris Dunn, the up and coming dunk Champ LaVine, and the right to swap 2017 picks for Jimmy would we all agree we would have been satisfied with that deal 1 year ago??

[HomoSapien]

Question: Has a team trading the perceived "superstar" ever also included a first round pick in the deal?

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Last draft if we would've gotten the #4 to take Kris Dunn, the up and coming dunk Champ LaVine, and the right to swap 2017 picks for Jimmy would we all agree we would have been satisfied with that deal 1 year ago??

I agree...last year it should've been done but chicago had visions of signing wade and rondo I guess.

[Axl Rose]

Last draft if we would've gotten the #4 to take Kris Dunn, the up and coming dunk Champ LaVine, and the right to swap 2017 picks for Jimmy would we all agree we would have been satisfied with that deal 1 year ago??

Zach still had 2 good knees and we wouldn't have known Dunn would be a bum then. we would be looking back now thinking it wasn't such a great deal after all if everything still happened (Zach ACL, Dunn Bum)

[GRADEN]

LaVines 2017-2018 season

Sits out first 12-15 games then comes along slowly and plays ok --- shoots it well but not a lot of at the rim play --- sits out every 1/10 games when back too --- after ASB kills it and shows his talent again

Year 61 games - 21ppg 5rpg 3apg 46-39-85 shooting

Kris Dunn year - proves it on defense but offense comes slowly--- plays better as time goes on and ends year: 77 games 6.8ppg 3.1rpg 2.8apg 1.1spg 38-31-68 shooting

Lauri Markannen proves he is an efficient 7 foot Mirotic type of talent... 17mpg 7.5ppg 3.9rpg 44-35.5-81 shooting

I think those 3 reasonable expectations???

[Poohdini1]

Not as initially upset at the trade as i was last night.

Lavine is the centerpiece. He looked like a future all star before going down with the ACL. Actually played 6 minutes after going down, so not sure if he tore it on the initial play or gradually as the game went on. Either way, he's got a nice 3 point shot and started running last week so maybe he's ready to go game 1.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Also intrigued by what I've seen from Dunn. No rookies really get a chance under Thibs, but he's got great size for a PG at 6'4" and tons of defensive potential. He surprised me with the plays he's able to make out of the PNR.

Watch on YouTube

Not opposed to the addition of Lauri, he's a 7 ft sweet shooting stretch 4 who resembles a more raw, smaller Porzingis without the wild athletic finishes/blocks. He's basically a bigger and younger version of the guy we hoped Niko would be. My only critique would be we probably could've traded a few picks back and still gotten him while adding more young talent. I would've loved Smith or Monk, but with Dunn & Lavine coming in I knew that wasn't going to happen.

I feel okay about the trade. Jimmy is a great player, but consistently undermined Fred and you couldn't deny the tension between him & the FO at times. Stark contrast to the relationship GarPax have had with Derrick/Jo/Taj. He's 27, and when he likely makes all NBA this season, we would've had to commit about 5 years 200+ million to him. We're in a much better situation dealing him now vs having to deal with what Indy is with PG.

I'm happy we chose a direction and just have to hope that Dunn can be a good starter and Lavine somewhat returns to form, which shouldn't be too crazy since he's a very good shooter. We're almost definitely looking at a top 3 pick next season and possibly a buyout for D-Wade. Hopefully Lopez is moved before the season starts as well.

I'm honestly more upset that we moved the 16th pick in the deal and sold our 2nd rounder.

[GRADEN]

The #1 thing I'm mad about is that we handcuffed our #7 into a big.... it's like they didn't think ahead. If Dunn was exchanged to a 3rd team for a SF or PF we liked at same value then we could have taken Smith Jr whom clearly is better day 1

[League Circles]

Question: Has a team ever trading the perceived "superstar" ever also included a first round pick in the deal?

Honestly it's become clear over the past year listening to nba analysts that most gms don't perceive him as a superstar, just Bulls fans focused on stats. This was the best offer by all reports. I don't think we should have made the trade, but I never viewed Butler as a build around guy. Just as a likely plus starter to build with for the next 6 years or so until he is roughly done.

He's not a superstar which is why no one offered a superstar package for him. He may have had a top 10 or 12 or whatever season performance, but is not considered a top 10-12 talent in the league, and talent is what GMs care about more than performance.

[HomoSapien]

Last draft if we would've gotten the #4 to take Kris Dunn, the up and coming dunk Champ LaVine, and the right to swap 2017 picks for Jimmy would we all agree we would have been satisfied with that deal 1 year ago??

Sure, last year that would've looked better. This year it looks worse because Dunn had an awful rookie season and LaVine has a torn ACL.

It's equivalent to thinking about buying a house in an up and coming neighborhood, only to find out after you buy it that the house has termites and the neighborhood might not be up and coming at all.

[Poohdini1]

The #1 thing I'm mad about is that we handcuffed our #7 into a big.... it's like they didn't think ahead. If Dunn was exchanged to a 3rd team for a SF or PF we liked at same value then we could have taken Smith Jr whom clearly is better day 1

You're assuming GarPax are savvy executives.

Smith Jr will be the best guard of this class. Good for him though, landed with a great coach in Carlisle.

[umfan83]

[GRADEN]

A little personal but I'll share: I'm 35 and recently shattered my right arm in my bball league... I played an additional 30mins after my fall... I had a clean break in my radius midshaft and a cracked radal head which is by far the way worse break... but at the time I felt like I could continue... it wasn't til hours later I was like utoh I'm in pain and big trouble .... it was 100 days ago - 9 week full arm cast - and now PT for elbow stiffness which is painful... I think when u have a break the adrenaline totally masks your rational thought

[Ice Man]

Honestly it's become clear over the past year listening to nba analysts that most gms don't perceive him as a superstar, just Bulls fans focused on stats

If the Bulls win 10+ fewer games next year after Butler leaves, as this board expects, and the Wolves win 10+ more, as this board expects, Butler is a superstar. There's no point in arguing the matter, the results will give the answer.

[GRADEN]

Oh I'm totally not justifying the deal in retrospect more to the fact that maybe this deal wasn't on table last year and now it is BECAUSE of those 2 things.... perhaps garpax thought well ok now we get that immense talent on the buylow??

[League Circles]

Honestly it's become clear over the past year listening to nba analysts that most gms don't perceive him as a superstar, just Bulls fans focused on stats

Yet this board, even including the Butler detractors, expects the Bulls to win 10 to 15 games less next year, with the only real change being the loss of Butler.

You can't have it both ways. A guy who is worth 10 to 15 games is a superstar, and should have netted a bigger deal. Or Butler is not that good, in which case if the Bulls bring back Niko, Rondo, Wade, and RoLo they won't get anything near a higher lottery pick, because they'll win 35 games or whatever.

Well, while I hate the notion of assigning added wins to players (I just don't like that way of rating them) as it's never that simple (for example subtracting Jimmy instantly makes Wade more valuable on court to us FWIW), I do expect the Bulls to be well above terrible next year. Not a playoff team most likely, but not a bottom 5 team either.

There is no "should" IMO regarding what a guy can net. There is just what he can net. This is what Butler (and #16) could have, and did, net. Which is why I didn't want to do it and think it was a mistake. Though, since I love the team, I'm going to try to look on the bright side and be optimistic now that it's happened. I'm not high on Lavine and think he's peaked, but IF, and they are big IFs but not impossible, Lauri can be an elite shooter/scorer and Dunn can be an elite defender, then it may end up being a good trade.

[bullsfan555]

I was upset at first. Not with us trading butler, but the return. But in reality I dont think anybody can beat the warriors for the next 2 or 3 years. So lets suck and get some high draft picks. Lebron will be like 35 and hopefully klay thompson wants his own team. So basically 2021 here we come! Go bulls.!!!

[Jcool0]

Honestly it's become clear over the past year listening to nba analysts that most gms don't perceive him as a superstar, just Bulls fans focused on stats

If the Bulls win 10+ fewer games next year after Butler leaves, as this board expects, and the Wolves win 10+ more, as this board expects, Butler is a superstar. There's no point in arguing the matter, the results will give the answer.

10 more wins might not get Minnesota into the playoffs next year.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Honestly it's become clear over the past year listening to nba analysts that most gms don't perceive him as a superstar, just Bulls fans focused on stats

If the Bulls win 10+ fewer games next year after Butler leaves, as this board expects, and the Wolves win 10+ more, as this board expects, Butler is a superstar. There's no point in arguing the matter, the results will give the answer.

Sure - assuming the games are played in a vacuum.

[Ice Man]

There is no "should" IMO regarding what a guy can net. There is just what he can net.

Well that's true. The problem with this trade is that the market has changed. Kevin Love netted an outright #1, even when his team had no bargaining leverage because his contract had one year left and he said he was leaving. Whereas today, the Pacers won't get anything like that for Paul George, who is in the same position.

Boogie went cheap, Jimmy went cheap, all the vet stars will go cheap. Because 25 NBA teams have crowded into the same market, all giving up on the next few years, and planning for 2021+.

As any investment person will tell you, when everybody chases the same market, that investment sucks. The way to prosper is to do the opposite. Thibs had the right instinct in getting a vet star when vet stars are cheap, and selling young players at a time when young players are expensive.

Whereas GarPax, I doubt they would understand this point.