Rumors: Bobcats, Bulls, Kings three-team discussions

[Rerisen]

Haven't read this thread yet, but immediate thought, why in the hell would we trade something so potentially as valuable as that Bobcats pick, for a backup big, when it is clear this year was not about going all out to win.

That would be the definition of stupidity, when we already sacrificed some talent this year to be more flexible and have a better chance to go for it down the line. Losing that pick for a marginal player, of any position, would in turn be sacrificing back some of that future setup right back, just to end us back in a place where we still don't have a guy as good as Asik.

[BullsFTW]

This makes a lot of sense. Maybe the Bobcats can un-protect the pick?

Then they can go forward knowing they'll have their first picks in 2014-16, Portland's 2013 pick, and Detroit's protected pick that will likely pay off by 2015. Morale does not seem high among Bobcats fans, and if they feel there's a better shot at a franchise guy at the top of 2014 or 2015 draft, it would make some sense to "un-protect" the pick, if such a thing is possible.

Agreed.

[patryk7754]

Haven't read this thread yet, but immediate thought, why in the hell would we trade something so potentially as valuable as that Bobcats pick, for a backup big, when it is clear this year was not about going all out to win.

That would be the definition of stupidity, when we already sacrificed some talent this year to be more flexible and have a better chance to go for it down the line. Losing that pick for a marginal player, of any position, would in turn be sacrificing back some of that future setup right back, just to end us back in a place where we still don't have a guy as good as Asik.

I already made this point early. You have to look at as two separate trade. Trade 1: Rip and Nazr for Thompson and Jimmer or Taylor. Trade 2: The 2016 cats pick (no one knows what spot this pick will be at) for a 2013 cats pick thats pretty much a top 5 pick unless someone gets really unlucky

[BullsFTW]

Haven't read this thread yet, but immediate thought, why in the hell would we trade something so potentially as valuable as that Bobcats pick, for a backup big, when it is clear this year was not about going all out to win.

That would be the definition of stupidity, when we already sacrificed some talent this year to be more flexible and have a better chance to go for it down the line. Losing that pick for a marginal player, of any position, would in turn be sacrificing back some of that future setup right back, just to end us back in a place where we still don't have a guy as good as Asik.

If the Bobcats unprotect their pick this year, then this is a decent move. I actually like Thompson as a back-up C.

[Ben]

Yeah Tyreke would be nice, but I doubt he gets moved until after the sale... unless they really don't like him and know they don't want to resign him at all. I worry a bit about Tyreke on this current squad (he's not going to hit many threes for you) but his ability to attack would be nice.

I'd agree with that. Seems odd though that they'd be interested in Henderson, who is also going to be an RFA, unless they are looking at moving one of Evans or Thornton.

Thornton's the guy I would want. I've said before, earlier in the season, that I would trade the Charlotte pick for him. He's playing way below his established level of the past few years, so his value should be down, and he's being paid $8 million/year over the next 2 years-- so he's not a bargain for a struggling team. The problem is, though, that his salary might make it impossible for us to acquire him without also cutting Boozer. Adding Thornton and dropping Boozer might not be a big move forward.

[Ben]

Count me among the guys who thinks that the Bobcats would not trade their 2013 pick, unprotected, before knowing where it'll fall.

[League Circles]

Thornton's the guy I would want. I've said before, earlier in the season, that I would trade the Charlotte pick for him. He's playing way below his established level of the past few years, so his value should be down, and he's being paid $8 million/year over the next 2 years-- so he's not a bargain for a struggling team. The problem is, though, that his salary might make it impossible for us to acquire him without also cutting Boozer. Adding Thornton and dropping Boozer might not be a big move forward.

Whoaaa, different strokes for different folks. I wouldn't trade Marco or Nate Robinson for Thornton. Hell, I wouldn't trade for him period. He sucks. The reason why crap teams are crap is that their best players are usually crap compared to the best players on good teams. At least Tyreke and Cousins have elite bodies/athleticism for their positions. Thornton is like Flip Murray 2.0.

[imagge]

The pick we are trading is the Bobcats 2013. The Bulls own this pick until the Bobcats miss the playoffs and the draft lottery play out. The Bobcats can only trade their 2013 pick

1. After the lottery and they have secured a top 12 pick at which time they retain their pick. Their 2013 pick is not available to be traded until then. This stays this way until the Bulls actually get the pick in 2016.

2. Or if the Bulls trade them their pick back before the trade deadline. At that time the Bobcats can then attempt to trade their 2013 pick for a player.

Now it make sense why they want to get this pick back.

1. The Portland pick is a potential mid round pick in a weak draft
2. The Piston's pick is heavily protected.

A good asset to have in a week draft is a top five pick. A team could be asking for this pick for a particular player the Bobcats want now or used it to get rid of Tyrus Thomas ....I feel they need the pick to get rid of TT. Like I said they can not trade their 2013 pick until after the draft lottery at which time the team willing to take TT salary will probably not want to do it. Think Dal or Orl taking on salary for a top 5/potential #1 pick.

[Rerisen]

Thornton's the guy I would want. I've said before, earlier in the season, that I would trade the Charlotte pick for him. He's playing way below his established level of the past few years, so his value should be down, and he's being paid $8 million/year over the next 2 years-- so he's not a bargain for a struggling team. The problem is, though, that his salary might make it impossible for us to acquire him without also cutting Boozer. Adding Thornton and dropping Boozer might not be a big move forward.

Used to like Thornton, after that big rookie year, looked all kinds of promising. But he seems pretty iffy right now. Two solid years, and two meh years. Best case is kind of a slightly poor man's Ben Gordon, but worst case is inefficient chucker. He doesn't have much all around game, and is short for the position. You don't want to take on those negatives unless the guy can absolutely offset it by being a dangerous and efficient scorer. Cause you don't want the offense broken routinely just for league average or worse efficiency. It would be a big gamble that playing next to Rose would fix him up. Not sure Thibs and the Bulls want this kind of look defensively in the backcourt though.

[Rerisen]

I don't see much here tbh. Sounds more like the Bulls got an offer and were not interested, Charlotte is scrambling some other options, but I don't see the Bulls biting. Rumor might be just water under the bridge more than anything, interesting to hear though.

[the ultimates]

@patryk7754

Look how dreadful the Charlotte roster is right now. They don't have any franchise type players on that roster and aren't a free agent destination. Even if they get a Parker or Wiggins and they become a franchise player the team will still be young and at best a fringe playoff team in east. I don't know why people make it seem like some kind of turnaround is coming for them. We've seen teams in the NBA be perennial lottery attenders for a long time the Bobcats don't seem any different. Even if by chance the Bobcats get good you can still move the pick for a player the level of Thompson the pick this year doesn't intrigue me because too many people who analyze the draft say this one just isn't that good.

[patryk7754]

@patryk7754

Look how dreadful the Charlotte roster is right now. They don't have any franchise type players on that roster and aren't a free agent destination. Even if they get a Parker or Wiggins and they become a franchise player the team will still be young and at best a fringe playoff team in east. I don't know why people make it seem like some kind of turnaround is coming for them. We've seen teams in the NBA be perennial lottery attenders for a long time the Bobcats don't seem any different. Even if by chance the Bobcats get good you can still move the pick for a player the level of Thompson the pick this year doesn't intrigue me because too many people who analyze the draft say this one just isn't that good.

I'm not saying that the Bobcats will be good or that they should do the trade. I'm just going by the report. If we have a chance to get Thompson and a pick that might land us McLemore then I would do and I think the Bulls should do it. It makes us better now and next year.

[Ben]

Thornton's the guy I would want. I've said before, earlier in the season, that I would trade the Charlotte pick for him. He's playing way below his established level of the past few years, so his value should be down, and he's being paid $8 million/year over the next 2 years-- so he's not a bargain for a struggling team. The problem is, though, that his salary might make it impossible for us to acquire him without also cutting Boozer. Adding Thornton and dropping Boozer might not be a big move forward.

Used to like Thornton, after that big rookie year, looked all kinds of promising. But he seems pretty iffy right now. Two solid years, and two meh years.

How do you figure that? His PERs year by year have been 17.4, 16.5, and 17.4. This year's the only bad one, 14.2. Everything's down for him this year: 3P%, FG%, FG%, FTA. He's had some injury troubles (sprained ankle) and difficulties off the court (I think a death in the family?), and King fans seem to think that those factors have contributed to his subpar play this year. I would try to buy low. Although if it took the Charlotte pick, maybe that wouldn't be buying low.

[Clint Eastwood]

Personally, I'd be more interested in Gerald Henderson. And he is a good fit for this team and is a pax type guy/pedigree who I believe could blossom away from that airbags franchise. I'd be fine getting him (he wasn't tendered I believe) or tyreke. Otherwise pass on this complete fabrication by the fictitious rumor press.

[Rerisen]

How do you figure that? His PERs year by year have been 17.4, 16.5, and 17.4. This year's the only bad one, 14.2.

The 16.5 PER year, that is at .525 TS%, below league average. That's mostly a function of shooting 16.4 times per 36, and PER inflating on attempts, much like Boozer's was still pretty high early this year when his scoring was just abysmal. And its not that this is terrible, its just sort of run of the mill replacement level scoring, that your team could probably get elsewhere too, but when it comes in a package with subpar defense, not much sharing the ball, and putting up a lot of 'me' type shots, I don't think that was a year that he was a plus player.

This year Thornton has gotten even worse, yet he keeps shooting as much, which indicates that's just who he is. Which means if you are going to devote that many shots in your offense to this kind of player, he cannot just be treading water.

If Bulls are going to add a scorer, someone dubious on the other end (and Thornton rates out pretty poorly on D) it is essential that we get some high efficiency scoring in here. Like Someone at least approaching what Korver could do, .550 TS% or above. The last thing we need is another Rip Hamilton, guy taking 14-16 shots on nights and just barely matching a point per shot.

For a slightly more extreme example in this mold, consider Monta Ellis still has a 15.5 PER this year, despite a wretched 474 TS%. Its only because he shoots 17.7 times per 36. While being merely net neutral impact on offense and negative to their defense.

[Red8911]

I like both big men,would be great if one is acquired for rip. Biyombo has no offensive game but he's good in D,rebounding and shot blocking,he would have the asik role...Thompson can score and rebound,I think he's the better player and would really help the offense off the bench,who knows maybe even start if he does well and boozer leaves...Also I wouldn't mind fredette in the deal,he has been a disappointment so far,but maybe a new and much better team will help him out,he would have the korver role running around and shooting,although most likely cook will get it if rip gets traded.

[aaqubed]

How do you figure that? His PERs year by year have been 17.4, 16.5, and 17.4. This year's the only bad one, 14.2.

The 16.5 PER year, that is at .525 TS%, below league average. That's mostly a function of shooting 16.4 times per 36, and PER inflating on attempts, much like Boozer's was still pretty high early this year when his scoring was just abysmal. And its not that this is terrible, its just sort of run of the mill replacement level scoring, that your team could probably get elsewhere too, but when it comes in a package with subpar defense, not much sharing the ball, and putting up a lot of 'me' type shots, I don't think that was a year that he was a plus player.

That was the year he got traded. He was absolutely terrible in NO that year, and barely played because of that. But as soon as he got to Sacramento, he was a completely different player and shot the ball much better.

[MVP Rose]

I wouldn't do it. Of course you want the Bulls to be in a better position to win it all this year, but you don't mortgage the future for a backup who will play 5 minutes per game in the playoffs. The Charlotte pick could be the number 1 overall pick in 2016 and we could land a superstar with that pick. Charlotte made the trade figuring that they'd be good by 2016, but they're still bad. Also, we have Mirotic coming over and our best player is a 23 year old coming off of an ACL tear. I'd be willing to trade the pick, but not for this.

x100

Not sure exactly how the Charlotte pick will turn out, but it will be better than this. Two rotation players and a mid 1st round pick? I'll roll the dice with what should be a top 11 or 12 pick at least.

[Rerisen]

That was the year he got traded. He was absolutely terrible in NO that year, and barely played because of that. But as soon as he got to Sacramento, he was a completely different player and shot the ball much better.

Yeah yeah, I see his splits, I'm just sick of acquiring or going after guys that we have to rely on, "He will be better here," arguments to justify. Career wise, we are talking .537 TS%, it's just very average for a guy who is mostly going to be here to score and probably give back on the other end.

If we look at his 2011 (the 16.5 PER year) RAPM I think it probably describes what he offered pretty well. Per 100 possessions +0.4 on offense, but -1.5 on defense. This makes perfect sense to me that his offense would be only marginally positive since he was scoring it a tad below league average.

[Indomitable]

Now Evans being include would be a interesting trade to ponder