David Kaplan: There will be meaningful change after this season

[Stratmaster]

Just saying, it's hard to think of an org that's done a worst job with 3 tank drafts (17-19) and multiple all-stars (14-16).

They've just made an impressive list of players who are out (or soon to be out) of the league the past few years.

The Bulls didn't tank 3 seasons, but yes they had 3 #7 picks.

You think Lavine, Carter, Lauri, Dunn and Coby will be out of the league soon?

I'm trying to understand your post.

[Stratmaster]

It’s truly sad how sad this situation is. Really thought in 2012 that the dark times were over. Thibs, Adams could make a player out of John Lucas III. Depth up the wazoo. Picking up good role-players with late picks: Taj, Asik, Jimmy.

One move (or non-move) after another for 8 years straight, they sunk the ship. Sure, the ACL happened... But I can’t think of one other really nasty career-altering injury that the Bulls dealt with.

Pacers lost an all-star Granger right as he hit peak and found a superstar teammate. Then they lost George to one of the nastiest leg breaks. Then when it seemed they lucked out with their George dump, Oladipo emerges... he goes on to mess up his knee. And yet somehow they’ve managed to keep winning games throughout it all.

So that’s proof right there that 1 or 2 injuries shouldn’t excuse your FO.

I get really mad whenever I hear the Rose injury excuse. Almost every team in the league has lost their best or highest paid player due to injury, age, free agency etc...from 2012. It is self pity at the worst.

There are bad GMs and there are people who should not even be GMs. These guys are in the 2nd category...there was this NFL coach who died recently( Rich Kotite)...he should never have been an NFL coach, so was Hoiberg.

Well, yes and no. It isn't that they lost their best player for a season and ruined a shot at a championship. It is that they lost their ROY/MVP forever and ruined the entire championship window. That never happened to LBJ, or Steph Curry, or Wade, etc. etc. etc.

So yeah, it was what it was. But it isn't something every fan base went through.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

I'd fly back from San Diego and join you, that would be fantastic.

I’m in if we’re running naked.

Been out in San Diego too long, my polar bear fur fell off years ago

We’d get on the news for sure. We’d be Chicago sports legends

[HomoSapien]

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-rumors-contrary-previous-report-toronto-didnt-actually-offer-masai-ujiri-extension/

People keep saying Masai won't happen, but realistically why not? If he leaves Toronto, is there a more prestigious GM challenge than restoring the Bulls to their past glory? Neither LA team will have an opening. Obviously NY is a great challenge too, but Dolan is so much worse than Reinsdorf.

NY is a bigger challenge, more prestigious if you are successful, and you can bet your ass Dolan will pay more money. Probably 2-3x what Reinsdorf will pay.

Maybe it comes down to the money (although Masai turned down a hefty offer from Washington), but it's just hard for me to envision someone like him wanting to work with Dolan. He's killed so many careers. Certainly, I can see how that adds to a challenge, but boy I wouldn't touch that job if I were him.

[MeloRoseNoah]

A new GM with full control over all personnel related to talent evaluation means that Paxson and Foreman are our. I can’t imagine a new GM to be ok being stuck with snakes like Foreman and Paxson or their incompetent cronies.

The problem with the Bulls isn’t entirely their garbage reputation among NBA players. It’s their garbage talent evaluation from the entire team that requires a complete makeover. We are in the business of effectively evaluating NBA talent and we have proven to be grossly incompetent in that department.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

A new GM with full control over all personnel related to talent evaluation means that Paxson and Foreman are our. I can’t imagine a new GM to be ok being stuck with snakes like Foreman and Paxson or their incompetent cronies.

The problem with the Bulls isn’t entirely their garbage reputation among NBA players. It’s their garbage talent evaluation from the entire team that requires a complete makeover. We are in the business of effectively evaluating NBA talent and we have proven to be grossly incompetent in that department.

I think it's less about understanding individual talent than it is about how to structure all of those pieces together as cogs into a machine. They've lacked vision and foresight for many years. At least the Baby Bulls had something of a vision, even though they failed to capitalize. Even up through probably 2013 there was some semblance of a vision despite whiffs on carrying it out like in 2010. But now is at least 5+ years of directionless leadership. The organization is just clearly broke. Overhauling that structure and all the personnel in it, is the way forward. Tbd if it actually gets that drastic.

[dougthonus]

Maybe it comes down to the money (although Masai turned down a hefty offer from Washington), but it's just hard for me to envision someone like him wanting to work with Dolan. He's killed so many careers. Certainly, I can see how that adds to a challenge, but boy I wouldn't touch that job if I were him.

I think money is always a big factor. I mean if the offers are within 10% maybe not, but if we're talking about factors of 2 like NY says "here's 20m per year" then I can't see him turning that down. I also don't think Dolan has killed so many careers. Not that I think Dolan is great, but I wouldn't blame Dolan for the failings of his GMs. He's given them carte blanche to spend what they want and doesn't seem to interfere heavily in personnel decisions.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Maybe it comes down to the money (although Masai turned down a hefty offer from Washington), but it's just hard for me to envision someone like him wanting to work with Dolan. He's killed so many careers. Certainly, I can see how that adds to a challenge, but boy I wouldn't touch that job if I were him.

I think money is always a big factor. I mean if the offers are within 10% maybe not, but if we're talking about factors of 2 like NY says "here's 20m per year" then I can't see him turning that down. I also don't think Dolan has killed so many careers. Not that I think Dolan is great, but I wouldn't blame Dolan for the failings of his GMs. He's given them carte blanche to spend what they want and doesn't seem to interfere heavily in personnel decisions.

Yea, money will be a factor and the Reinsdorfs don't have a history of handing out big contracts to experienced guys. If there is a personnel change at top, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a first time leading exec, but at least one with a deep background in another front office in other roles. But a proven success like Masai? Not holding my breath.

But hopefully doesn't come from the radio booth.

[umfan83]

Just saying, it's hard to think of an org that's done a worst job with 3 tank drafts (17-19) and multiple all-stars (14-16).

Sacramento would have to be up there. Cousins has been the only Kings All-Star they've had, but they also once employed Isaiah Thomas (later a 2x All-Star), Tyreke Evans, Rudy Gay and Hassan Whiteside (star caliber guys).

The return for the departure of those 5 players: Buddy Hield, Langston Galloway, Greivis Vasquez, Alex Oriakhi, a trade exception, cash, a protected 1st and 3 2nd round picks.

Lottery draft picks?

2018 - Marvin Bagley (Doncic was next pick)
2017 - De'Aaron Fox, Zach Collins
2016 - Marquese Chriss
2015 - Willie Cauley-Stein
2014 - Nik Stauskas
2013 - Ben McLemore
2012 - Thomas Robinson (Damian Lillard was next pick)

At least the Bulls got a lottery pick, a borderline All-Star, a rotation guard for their all stars (all from Jimmy) and with their 3 lottery picks got 2 quality starting bigs and whatever White turns out to be.

[transplant]

I just don’t see Jerry completely kicking them to the curb. I do, however, think Pax would just walk. He doesn’t need this. But Gar? Who the hell would hire Gar?

Completely agree with the bolded. This rebuild is on Paxson, not Forman. Boylen is on Paxson, not Forman. Forman may not have been kicked to the curb, but he has been kicked out of the way.

When Paxson said that "if the rebuild doesn't work out, people will probably get their wish (he'd be gone)" I firmly believe that he was talking about him voluntarily stepping aside. The Reinsdorfs have never needed to fire Paxson. We know that he offered his resignation once before and was talked out of it by Jerry Reinsdorf. He stayed on due to personal loyalty to Jerry Reinsdorf. If this season continues to go sideways, his exit won't be contentious.

Forman is a weak stick. Dead man walking.

[Jiipee84]

If / when Bulls will get new GM and new vice president of basketball operations
It's better for them to be skilled and experienced professionals in their work

Bulls don't need new Gar Forman / John Paxson type lazy idiot duo who can't do nothing without huge mistakes and failures.
These new bosses should have full rights to fire all slackers from medical staff including front office and coaching staff.

Also they should have full rights to trade every player if player can't show any progress and development in his game.
It's time to get some solid heat under Lauri's feets and ass to get serious look is there any signs and hope of progress and development.

And if new GM is hot happy for Lauri and his game or development as player then Lauri is out of Bulls ASAP.
New GM's first job is to make perfectly clear that only serious and real pros will have spot on new Chicago Bulls.

And those who are only free cruising and not bring their best on the table and game are out in heartbeat.
The protection jobs and laziness era must begin to be over

Welcome to the 2020's Chicago Bulls.

[Mech Engineer]

A new GM with full control over all personnel related to talent evaluation means that Paxson and Foreman are our. I can’t imagine a new GM to be ok being stuck with snakes like Foreman and Paxson or their incompetent cronies.

The problem with the Bulls isn’t entirely their garbage reputation among NBA players. It’s their garbage talent evaluation from the entire team that requires a complete makeover. We are in the business of effectively evaluating NBA talent and we have proven to be grossly incompetent in that department.

I think it's less about understanding individual talent than it is about how to structure all of those pieces together as cogs into a machine. They've lacked vision and foresight for many years. At least the Baby Bulls had something of a vision, even though they failed to capitalize. Even up through probably 2013 there was some semblance of a vision despite whiffs on carrying it out like in 2010. But now is at least 5+ years of directionless leadership. The organization is just clearly broke. Overhauling that structure and all the personnel in it, is the way forward. Tbd if it actually gets that drastic.

Vision and creativity to build a whole team has been a big problem for Paxson. He has picked decent individual talents in the draft process but that's off no use. He keeps looking for perfect pieces for the team which are not practical like the SG situation in 2010/11 and settled for Bogans.

And, they just cannot recover from a mistake. Every GM makes mistakes but you cannot drown your franchise because of that. Only bad franchises like the Kings. Suns, Bulls keep doing the same things hoping for better results.

[Am2626]

It’s truly sad how sad this situation is. Really thought in 2012 that the dark times were over. Thibs, Adams could make a player out of John Lucas III. Depth up the wazoo. Picking up good role-players with late picks: Taj, Asik, Jimmy.

One move (or non-move) after another for 8 years straight, they sunk the ship. Sure, the ACL happened... But I can’t think of one other really nasty career-altering injury that the Bulls dealt with.

Pacers lost an all-star Granger right as he hit peak and found a superstar teammate. Then they lost George to one of the nastiest leg breaks. Then when it seemed they lucked out with their George dump, Oladipo emerges... he goes on to mess up his knee. And yet somehow they’ve managed to keep winning games throughout it all.

So that’s proof right there that 1 or 2 injuries shouldn’t excuse your FO.

I get really mad whenever I hear the Rose injury excuse. Almost every team in the league has lost their best or highest paid player due to injury, age, free agency etc...from 2012. It is self pity at the worst.

There are bad GMs and there are people who should not even be GMs. These guys are in the 2nd category...there was this NFL coach who died recently( Rich Kotite)...he should never have been an NFL coach, so was Hoiberg.

Well, yes and no. It isn't that they lost their best player for a season and ruined a shot at a championship. It is that they lost their ROY/MVP forever and ruined the entire championship window. That never happened to LBJ, or Steph Curry, or Wade, etc. etc. etc.

So yeah, it was what it was. But it isn't something every fan base went through.

Would Paxson ever have created a championship roster if he didn’t luck into getting Rose? While you can’t fault this FO for the Rose injury you absolutely can fault them for firing Thibs and pretty much everything that has happened since then. When Hoiberg was fired, GarPax should have left with him.

[MrFortune3]

Maybe it comes down to the money (although Masai turned down a hefty offer from Washington), but it's just hard for me to envision someone like him wanting to work with Dolan. He's killed so many careers. Certainly, I can see how that adds to a challenge, but boy I wouldn't touch that job if I were him.

I think money is always a big factor. I mean if the offers are within 10% maybe not, but if we're talking about factors of 2 like NY says "here's 20m per year" then I can't see him turning that down. I also don't think Dolan has killed so many careers. Not that I think Dolan is great, but I wouldn't blame Dolan for the failings of his GMs. He's given them carte blanche to spend what they want and doesn't seem to interfere heavily in personnel decisions.

The problem with Dolan is the same as Reinsdorf. They keep the same people around no matter how many regime changes they make. why is Steve Mills still involved with the Knicks when he's been around since 2003?

At some point, the yes men have to be pushed aside and you need to hire someone who will fix the mess.

[Indomitable]

Just saying, it's hard to think of an org that's done a worst job with 3 tank drafts (17-19) and multiple all-stars (14-16).

They've just made an impressive list of players who are out (or soon to be out) of the league the past few years.

The Bulls didn't tank 3 seasons, but yes they had 3 #7 picks.

You think Lavine, Carter, Lauri, Dunn and Coby will be out of the league soon?

I'm trying to understand your post.

Why?

[DuckIII]

That blurb is too good to be true.

That does not read to me like GarPax would be retained in new roles.

I’m amazed that I’m the only one reading the new blurb with greater skepticism. Too good to be true? It says absolutely nothing about removing personnel other than scouts. It shifts completely to a discussion of analytical frameworks and methodology, not people.

Not that those other changes would be bad. Just not the sentiment I expected here.

What Kaplan is saying here is exactly what Bulls fans have been dreaming about for years, which is what makes it so hard to believe. After all, who the heck is going to lead the charge on all this change? It can’t be John Paxson, that’s for sure.

Well, Kaplan did have an answer at the ready – “their new GM.”

Am I missing something? This might all be bunk but if he is to be believed, there will be a new GM.

Oops! I missed the last line.

[Dominator83]

No Boozer was a terrible as well as Felicio's deal since these guys never belonged in the NBA in the first place.
He was already past his prime after getting boosted by Deron Williams in Utah.
When the Bulls signed Boozer, I already predicted the potential championship was already over and didnt even look like a consolation prize at all. It was more of a desperation from a garbage franchise that begged crappy players to take their money to save face.
They had to sign someone like Pau that year after failing to acquire Bosh but it was over when they got him and Keith freaking Bogans.

Yep. From day one, Boozer was an awful contract. The team was clearly better with Taj Gibson starting. $15 million was alot in a $65 million cap. I still remember him being taken to school by Tyler frickin Hansbrough in the playoffs. He was untradeable the entire time and it was well known 2 years in advance that his last year was going to be amnestied. Huge waste of money.

Ben wallace, they spent MAX capspace to DOWNGRADE a position. Wallace was traded at the deadline in year 2 of his 4 year deal, for equally garbage contract in Larry Hughes.

Wallace in year one was easily better than Chandler, though we should have kept Tyson too.

Boozer, flawed as he was, was still a good signing IMO given the alternatives. And I say that as someone who is an unparalleled Taj fan who agrees we were better with him starting (eventually). Boozer helped us go from average to great.

Agree to disagree. Boozer was awful, especially in that playoff run. He didn't make them great at all. He got schooled by Tyler Hansbrough of all people in the Indiana series. Didn't do much in the Atlanta series either, and had one big game in the heat series. He was a non-factor even in year one. Pau Gasol for half the price was way better here.

Ben Wallace stunk too. he came in handy in that heat series, because his size was ideal against Shaq. other than that, he sucked. I remember when he sat out a game at Detroit, and a fan right behind Skiles yelled, "hey Scott, your team is better without the $60 million bum". And that fan was correct!

Worse is, the Wallace thing wasn't even hindsight. At the time of the signing, his rebounds and blocks (his bread and butter) had already been on a 3 year decline. I actually remember starting a thread here stating my skepticism on our off-season moves that everyone was so excited about (Wallace over Chandler, Tyrus over Aldridge) and mostly got flamed for it. Man i wish our archives went back deeper so i can find it and bump it!

[Am2626]

Just saying, it's hard to think of an org that's done a worst job with 3 tank drafts (17-19) and multiple all-stars (14-16).

Sacramento would have to be up there. Cousins has been the only Kings All-Star they've had, but they also once employed Isaiah Thomas (later a 2x All-Star), Tyreke Evans, Rudy Gay and Hassan Whiteside (star caliber guys).

The return for the departure of those 5 players: Buddy Hield, Langston Galloway, Greivis Vasquez, Alex Oriakhi, a trade exception, cash, a protected 1st and 3 2nd round picks.

Lottery draft picks?

2018 - Marvin Bagley (Doncic was next pick)
2017 - De'Aaron Fox, Zach Collins
2016 - Marquese Chriss
2015 - Willie Cauley-Stein
2014 - Nik Stauskas
2013 - Ben McLemore
2012 - Thomas Robinson (Damian Lillard was next pick)

At least the Bulls got a lottery pick, a borderline All-Star, a rotation guard for their all stars (all from Jimmy) and with their 3 lottery picks got 2 quality starting bigs and whatever White turns out to be.

It’s not the actual draft picks that the Bulls failed at. It is the inability to move up in the draft (Especially the Doncic draft), the lack of committing to properly tank the last year before the lottery changed (Mirotic & Kirkpatrick signing, etc.). GarPax have been unable to create a vision and execute a proper and defined plan. They can’t properly commit to anything. Paxson specifically is too reactive and does not show any type of creativity. He is not qualified for this job. All he has shown is the ability to draft. That’s not enough to be a successful GM.

[TheStig]

A new GM with full control over all personnel related to talent evaluation means that Paxson and Foreman are our. I can’t imagine a new GM to be ok being stuck with snakes like Foreman and Paxson or their incompetent cronies.

The problem with the Bulls isn’t entirely their garbage reputation among NBA players. It’s their garbage talent evaluation from the entire team that requires a complete makeover. We are in the business of effectively evaluating NBA talent and we have proven to be grossly incompetent in that department.

You're missing the key point. The new GM is a crony. Change without change

[HomoSapien]

You have to think Doug Collins is the one driving this. He's the new guy in here, is close to Jerry, and it was reported that he wasn't the biggest Gar supporter. Reinsdorf respects him and the notion of bringing an outside hire seems like something he might suggest.