Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early?

transplant · Post #141 » by **transplant** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:57 pm

Yes, we ran Payne out of town. In truth, many wanted him outright released. We're not nearly as smart as we think we are.

Post #142 » by **Michael Jackson** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:35 pm

transplant wrote:Yes, we ran Payne out of town. In truth, many wanted him outright released. We're not nearly as smart as we think we are.

Very true but Payne was terrible here, Cleveland couldn't do anything with him and then he went to China. Came back in the bubble last year and was a different player than what he had previously been. He is an outlier of a story if there ever was one.

2018C3 · Post #143 » by **2018C3** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:17 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
transplant wrote:Yes, we ran Payne out of town. In truth, many wanted him outright released. We're not nearly as smart as we think we are.

Very true but Payne was terrible here, Cleveland couldn't do anything with him and then he went to China. Came back in the bubble last year and was a different player than what he had previously been. He is an outlier of a story if there ever was one.

Everyone matures at a different rate. He probably needed that China experience in order to be humbled and to set his sights going forward.

Its got to be hard for a young 20 something entering this league, have money in the pocket and continue to improve with all the distractions fame presents. It would be easy to loose some focus.

At that age I was hitting the bars 3-4 nights a week getting maybe 4-5 hours of sleep before the next work day, if that! And never experienced the same levels of pressure and temptation these young men must endure.

BullChit · Post #144 » by **BullChit** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:30 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
transplant wrote:Yes, we ran Payne out of town. In truth, many wanted him outright released. We're not nearly as smart as we think we are.

Very true but Payne was terrible here, Cleveland couldn't do anything with him and then he went to China. Came back in the bubble last year and was a different player than what he had previously been. He is an outlier of a story if there ever was one.

He's playing like the player that all the scouts and coaches who gave him a shot talked about him having the potential to be, but clearly he wasn't there yet.

I've known many a young sports talent who don't make it because they think they've made it well before they have actually made anything. All that talent and skill means nothing without the right mindset to go with it.

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

The 6ft Hurdle · Post #145 » by **The 6ft Hurdle** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:59 am

The GarPax Bulls weren't the best example of recognizing nor developing talent.

Post #146 » by **Michael Jackson** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:06 am

The 6ft Hurdle wrote:The GarPax Bulls weren't the best example of recognizing nor developing talent.

I think they recognized it fine but developing it they were awful at for sure. Plenty of their players were in the playoffs, snell, Portis and Payne are still in. They just couldn’t do anything with them, made bad decisions, let them go to soon etc…. Hoiberg halted all development. Getting and sticking with him was their major mistake. Then Jimbo? Wtf?

FanInTheAttic · Post #147 » by **FanInTheAttic** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:26 am

Is there any player that was terrible in another team and fulfilled his potential with the Bulls later ? In the recent years.

FanInTheAttic · Post #148 » by **FanInTheAttic** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:56 pm

It is also funny that some like to think that when a player doesn't play well with the Bulls it is completely his own fault, but when a player succeeds in another team it is because he has good team mates around him.

kodo · Post #149 » by **kodo** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:06 pm

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/cam-payne-went-from-out-of-the-league-to-out-of-this-world/

Damn, this entire article was framed around the Chicago Bulls quote about Cam Payne.

When the Chicago Bulls traded him, an anonymous source told a Bulls writer that “we knew the second practice [after he was acquired] that he couldn’t play at [an NBA] level.’

...
There’s been no drop-off when Payne replaces Paul
Phoenix Suns splits for the 2020-21 season with Cam Payne and Chris Paul on or off the court

REGULAR SEASON PLAYOFFS
MINUTES NET RATING MINUTES NET RATING
Payne and Paul on 84 16.02 67 10.91
Payne on, Paul off 995 7.45 242 6.59
Payne off, Paul on 2115 6.28 358 5.98
Payne and Paul off 302 -6.32 54 -5.28

...
Payne’s ability to shepherd Phoenix when substituting for an All Star is likely why FiveThirtyEight’s RAPTOR metric — which uses play-by-play, box-score and tracking data to measure player contributions — ranks Payne as the most effective Sun over the playoffs and regular season on a per-possession basis.

...
This super sub is more than capable now of playing “at an NBA level.”

johnnyvann840 · Post #150 » by **johnnyvann840** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 3:47 am

Cam Payne was a big part of getting the Suns to the NBA Finals. Crazy

kodo · Post #151 » by **kodo** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:Cam Payne was a big part of getting the Suns to the NBA Finals. Crazy

I wish you could time travel and post that to the Bulls board 4 years ago.

Post #152 » by **Ice Man** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 5:41 pm

kodo wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:Cam Payne was a big part of getting the Suns to the NBA Finals. Crazy

I wish you could time travel and post that to the Bulls board 4 years ago.

It might have become the most mocked post ever.

Mech Engineer · Post #153 » by **Mech Engineer** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 9:16 pm

What we saw was an absolute failure in development of young/raw players from Hoiberg. Payne was probably the rawest of them all. There was no chance of him succeeding with the Bulls. He is still not a starter for a playoff team. But, he has talent and Presti is good in picking talent.

The number of PGs who have failed to develop under GarPax is endless.

Post #154 » by **HomoSapien** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 9:29 pm

I mean, we supposedly determined after his 2nd practice that he wasn't an NBA player

bad knees · Post #155 » by **bad knees** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 10:44 pm

There are a lot of reasons to bash prior management, but I don't think Cam Payne is one of them. That dude was flat out awful when he was here. Awful. We tried to make it work, but it appeared hopeless. Another team tried - Cleveland I think - and they came to the same conclusion. Then the whole league voted the same way by declining to pick him up, which resulted in him going to China. So the whole league was convinced that Cam was crap.

But, for whatever reason, he is not crap now. He obviously got his head together and matured a lot. He's actually high on my list in terms of obtainable PG's this summer.

the ultimates · Post #156 » by **the ultimates** » Thu Jul 1, 2021 10:59 pm

The Bulls didn't give up on him too early he was awful here. What I find strange and irritating is using a player who may have played on 2-3 other teams after the Bulls before they found their game and became productive as some gotcha or indictment of the Bulls. Those same people saying they gave up on Payne too early are the same ones saying White or Williams should be traded.

kodo · Post #157 » by **kodo** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 4:11 am

If Milwaukee advances, Cam Payne and Bobby Portis will be two of the most important X factors in the Finals.

CobyWhite0 · Post #158 » by **CobyWhite0** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 4:36 am

the ultimates wrote:The Bulls didn't give up on him too early he was awful here. What I find strange and irritating is using a player who may have played on 2-3 other teams after the Bulls before they found their game and became productive as some gotcha or indictment of the Bulls. Those same people saying they gave up on Payne too early are the same ones saying White or Williams should be traded.

100% correct.

And some of them are still complaining that we gave up "two incredibly valuable draft picks" to trade for an actual, current All-Star... even though they'd be all over AKME in a couple of years for not trading for Vuc when those two picks aren't All-NBA by their 2nd season.

When are people going to figure out that when you're drafting 19-year-olds, it's usually going to take them 3-4 seasons before they're truly comfortable in the league?

CobyWhite0 · Post #159 » by **CobyWhite0** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 4:40 am

sco wrote:I mean, scoring guard off the bench isn't something to lament all that much.

That said, it does speak to the time it takes for some guys to get comfortable in the NBA.

You mean like Patrick Williams and Coby White?

ATRAIN53 · Post #160 » by **ATRAIN53** » Fri Jul 2, 2021 2:45 pm

kodo wrote:If Milwaukee advances, Cam Payne and Bobby Portis will be two of the most important X factors in the Finals.

I like to think somewhere GarPax are smiling over this and shaking their fists at the TV yelling "I told you those guys were GOOD!'
just watch Portis win the Finals MVP shutting down Ayton LOL

I will LOSE it if Kris Dunn suddenly gets dusted off, thrown into action and starts ballin, posting triple doubles out there!