Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

[drosestruts]

If the Pelicans are also shopping Bledsoe I'd be much more interested in going that route. It'd be a much more stabilizing trade in that we know what Bledsoe provides on the court, as where Lonzo is still much more of a question mark who's value is heavily driven by potential.

Bledsoe is also locked in for the next two years. We have no idea what Lonzo will command in free agency, let alone our own upcoming free agents (Lauri, Porter this summer, Carter and LaVine after that).

I realize given Bledsoe's age it's a very temporary solution, but it is more of a guaranteed solution. Lonzo could fit poorly here and is more of a risk. Bledsoe provides a much clearer option in terms of value, and provides a higher floor.

[BigJimFinn]

Coby is averaging 2.7 turnovers and Lonzo is 2.4. I think they are happening for different reasons, but I don’t know if it improves that as much as we’d think. It does get the ball out of Zach’s hands a bit more so it might cut down his turnovers slightly

Coby was trash which is why Zach started getting the ball more.

Coby struggles against any pressure. He is a bad pg. If we can get someone who can read a defense. I am all for it.

I'm not against trading for him -- I actually would love it (as long as we don't give up too much). I think the defense will bring up the floor -- but it might not fix the turnover issue.

To me, the deal breaker with Lonzo as a solution to Bulls' ballhandler woes is his FTs. What is the use of a primary ballhandler who is mortally afraid of getting fouled, because he struggles to shoot .500 from the line? How do you play him in clutch minutes? He has some nice abilities that would help the Bulls, but I can't see him as a long term starter on a playoff team. So you could try him out if available cheaply, but prepare to cut loose if his contract expectations aren't realistic.

[DroseReturnChi]

Coby is averaging 2.7 turnovers and Lonzo is 2.4. I think they are happening for different reasons, but I don’t know if it improves that as much as we’d think. It does get the ball out of Zach’s hands a bit more so it might cut down his turnovers slightly

Coby was trash which is why Zach started getting the ball more.

Coby struggles against any pressure. He is a bad pg. If we can get someone who can read a defense. I am all for it.

I'm not against trading for him -- I actually would love it (as long as we don't give up too much). I think the defense will bring up the floor -- but it might not fix the turnover issue.

coby does nothing ball handling wise while lonzo can avg the same to while being the number 1 ball handler.
lonzo is heralded as the next jason kidd. come on need better quality discussion than this.
these statistics are meaningless if they are getting misused and the coby v rose discussion was unreadable.

the only reason you keep this bust is cost and bring up trade value but yeah nobodys paying a 1st rounder for a bench chucker shooting less than 40/35 2nd season in a row. same with this carter kid playing 30 games a season. so many deadweights waiving them all and replacing them with tlc, vonleh is better.

[DroseReturnChi]

To me, the deal breaker with Lonzo as a solution to Bulls' ballhandler woes is his FTs. What is the use of a primary ballhandler who is mortally afraid of getting fouled, because he struggles to shoot .500 from the line? How do you play him in clutch minutes? He has some nice abilities that would help the Bulls, but I can't see him as a long term starter on a playoff team. So you could try him out if available cheaply, but prepare to cut loose if his contract expectations aren't realistic.

Your just mixing up priorities. The same logic goes to Ben Simmons or even Brown, Doncic and you should waive them all.
The goal is not to get another lavine type that can score and shoot decent but a pure pg in a rich man's sato's mold that can be the number 1 ball handler while providing elite perimeter D. And Lonzo's no slouch from deep either I trust more than Coby.

I dont demand a lot from my starters. A sg should shoot well, sf defend well, pf stretch the floor well and they are doing their jobs.
The pg and center guys were always questionable whether they even belong in the right position having identity issues.

[LateNight]

Coby was trash which is why Zach started getting the ball more.

Coby struggles against any pressure. He is a bad pg. If we can get someone who can read a defense. I am all for it.

I'm not against trading for him -- I actually would love it (as long as we don't give up too much). I think the defense will bring up the floor -- but it might not fix the turnover issue.

coby does nothing ball handling wise while lonzo can avg the same to while being the number 1 ball handler.
lonzo is heralded as the next jason kidd. come on need better quality discussion than this.

I wasn't saying "Coby White is the greatest point guard ever" - I was saying there are a lot of reasons to be suspicious of Lonzo. I'm still a fan of trading for him, but I'm not giving up significant assets to make it happen.

And people saying he's "the next Jason Kidd" doesn't mean anything. People said Harold Miner was "the next Michael Jordan". He ended up averaged 9 points a game for his career.

[KCFITTED]

No doubt Lonzo is a no brainer fit for the Bulls. Question is who do we give up? I say Porter, Hutch, Val, Sato would be in the discussion for Ball maybe Thad Young.

The Bulls can give any one of those guys and it doesn't change much plus we will be losing out on of some of them next year anyway.

PG Lonzo/White
SG Lavine/White/Temple
SF Pat/Lonzo/Temple
PF Lauri/Thad/Pat
C Wendell/Gafford

Of course you might keep one of Porter or Hutch/Val but if push came to shove I would give up all 3 if it fills a need.

[drosestruts]

I feel that the allure of Lonzo is wrapped up in his potential. What Lonzo could be would fit very nice alongside LaVine and with our other core players like Markkanen. But there are three issues as I see them with Lonzo:

1. He's not that good at the moment, especially this season, and we'd be banking on the development of yet another member of the team

2. His potential and reputation as a #2 overall pick will increase the price of trading for him

3. His contract ends at the end of the year and he'll be expecting a significant raise


There is another option for a point guard out there though, and he happens to be getting shopped by the same team, Eric Bledsoe. Bledsoe, I would imagine, would cost less to acquire (hell maybe we even get a 2nd thrown our way), is a better player right now, and has two additional (last year is a partial guaranteed) years on his deal giving us some clarity on what our roster will include going forward.

Bledsoe is the safer move, you can say it's a lack of imagination or boldness, but our roster is filled with players still developing and filled with question marks. Does bringing in another unknown really help?

Satorasnky and Felicio for Bledsoe and a 2nd.

Bledsoe/White/Archie
LaVine/Valentine
Porter/Temple/Htuch
Young/Williams
Markkanen/Carter/Gafford

Let's Go!

[Indomitable]

Otto would gets us invoked in the Bledsoe nonsense.
Make it simple.

[kodo]

I know Lonzo's offense has died this season and why he's being traded, but his 3P defense looks bad as well.

% allowed on above the break 3s:
Coby White: 36.9% (2nd worst on the Bulls after Carter)
Lonzo Ball: 38.2%
Eric Bledsoe: 38.9%

Last season Dunn allowed 33%.

The idea that our 3P defense might get worse by adding Lonzo isn't appealing.

[FriedRise]

I know Lonzo's offense has died this season and why he's being traded, but his 3P defense looks bad as well.

% allowed on above the break 3s:
Coby White: 36.9% (2nd worst on the Bulls after Carter)
Lonzo Ball: 38.2%
Eric Bledsoe: 38.9%

Last season Dunn allowed 33%.

The idea that our 3P defense might get worse by adding Lonzo isn't appealing.

Damn. WHAT does he do well then?

[weneeda2guard]

Eric Bledsoe has a deal that takes him to 2023 on the books

That compromises our ability to have major cap space next off season

Bledsoe is not worth that.

Beal is worth that. Bledsoe is not. Bledsoe would do better in a situation with a team who doesn't have cap space and can add him. Where we are at right now, next off season is very important as we will have the cap space to really fill this roster out with nice pieces with lavine coby and Patrick Williams still locked in. Can't add anyone that messes that course up unless its a flat out star.

Small deals that end this off season like lonzo ball is more ideal. Not like adding Bledsoe puts us immediately in the playoffs.

[sco]

Eric Bledsoe has a deal that takes him to 2023 on the books

That compromises our ability to have major cap space next off season

Bledsoe is not worth that.

Beal is worth that. Bledsoe is not. Bledsoe would do better in a situation with a team who doesn't have cap space and can add him. Where we are at right now, next off season is very important as we will have the cap space to really fill this roster out with nice pieces with lavine coby and Patrick Williams still locked in. Can't add anyone that messes that course up unless its a flat out star.

Small deals that end this off season like lonzo ball is more ideal. Not like adding Bledsoe puts us immediately in the playoffs.

I look at Bledsoe as a contract that you'd take to get another good player from that team. Like a less-bad version of Griffin. I was thinking Ball was "the guy", but he seems worse than last year (wonder why?), the guy I really want from NO is NAW. I wonder if that pairing could be done in a deal?

[BullChit]

What would even make Coby White a good 6th man?

He doesn't even give you efficient scoring since he never gets to the line.

Playing against second units maybe? I feel that's one of the reasons why the vets are looking this good.

Plus not having to focus on being the starting point guard and facilitator and just being a scoring gun.

It would help him to be able to focus on one role.

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[TheSuzerain]

What would even make Coby White a good 6th man?

He doesn't even give you efficient scoring since he never gets to the line.

Playing against second units maybe? I feel that's one of the reasons why the vets are looking this good.

Plus not having to focus on being the starting point guard and facilitator and just being a scoring gun.

It would help him to be able to focus on one role.

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

But you can't be good at that gunner role if you don't get to the free throw line and/or score efficiently in the paint.

He'd need to shoot 40%+ from 3 on high volume in that case, which is basically saying he needs to be up as good as a bunch of all stars when it comes to the 3-ball. Good luck with that.

[BullChit]

Playing against second units maybe? I feel that's one of the reasons why the vets are looking this good.

Plus not having to focus on being the starting point guard and facilitator and just being a scoring gun.

It would help him to be able to focus on one role.

Sent from my CPH1979 using Tapatalk

But you can't be good at that gunner role if you don't get to the free throw line and/or score efficiently in the paint.

He'd need to shoot 40%+ from 3 on high volume in that case, which is basically saying he needs to be up as good as a bunch of all stars when it comes to the 3-ball. Good luck with that.

I agree with you bud but he has shown in flashes that he can be that and I guess that's where the debate of is it his age or is he just streaky? That's the flyer you take on a player like Coby White...

I guess what I'm saying is he able to develop and reach that potential while starting as a point gaurd?

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[fleet]

^^^^ If you ask that question of Cobe, it seems discouraging. Cobe would have to get better in defense to take advantage of whatever potential he had. Defense is usually a feature. Odds are against improving, but it has happened. But anyway even though guys can get more efficient with age, that efficiency part is usually a feature as well. He has a lot going against him. So te Bulls should be turning over all rocks and not counting on anything. At least with Lonzo you can more or less count on the D being in his toolkit.

[MGB8]

One interesting thing about Lonzo - he actually has the 2nd best raw +/- of any Pelicans players that plays significant minutes, at +6.7 (just behind Steven Adams' +7.3).

Again, if the Bulls could get a very low cost flier on Ball, I'd think long and hard about it. But it looks like the Pels are looking for value for him, and in terms of low cost (or even "negative cost") trades, Bledsoe is the one who New Orleans will move.

Of course, the Pelicans are a darkhorse candidate to trade for Beal, too, which would likely take any other trades with them off the table. Reddick, Ball, NAW (+ several picks from a team fat from the Jrue trade) for Beal works on trade checker.

[FriedRise]

Read on Twitter

And they beat Milwaukee.

[DroseReturnChi]

^^^^ If you ask that question of Cobe, it seems discouraging. Cobe would have to get better in defense to take advantage of whatever potential he had. Defense is usually a feature. Odds are against improving, but it has happened. But anyway even though guys can get more efficient with age, that efficiency part is usually a feature as well. He has a lot going against him. So te Bulls should be turning over all rocks and not counting on anything. At least with Lonzo you can more or less count on the D being in his toolkit.

coby has alligator arms and he looks like 6'2 given that his hair made him 6'4 sg when in fact is a sg chucker in a pg body.
terrible defense, terrible finisher, terrible shooter, terrible passer. might be the worst pg prospect of all time he doesnt do a single thing well. this kid thinks he gets a pass like trae young in defense with his explosive ability to get 30pts. what a joke.

lonzo and coby are not even comparable as prospects its blasphemous to even mention under the same sentence i would just toss him for someone who can be a guard version of simmons. the fact that we should coby bc he was 7 pick is just wrong when he wouldnt have been picked in the lottery if not for garpax. paxson is so stupid its like he only picks low ceiling busts every single yr. give him his job back so the fo can eliminate whatever prospects he likes.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

In a vacuum, Coby is better and holds more value. But Lonzo fits our needs so well, and would elevate our starting 5. He’d set up everyone so nicely and can play D.

In a perfect world we could trade for him and keep Coby, who can be the spark plug off the bench. Sato + lottery protected 1st is a deal for me