WOJ: NBA investigating possible tampering: Update Bulls forfeit 2nd Round Pick pg. 31

[jStuNNa]

Tbh, if the Bulls tampered, I'm proud of 'em.

[Trm3]

Will that void the trade?

An increase in fines for tampering, for entering into unauthorized agreements with players and even for talking about players under contract elsewhere passed unanimously, commissioner Adam Silver said, in a vote of the Board of Governors. Final figures still were to be determined, though reports have suggested the maximum fines could rise to $10 million for tampering, $6 million for improper deals and $5 million for comments enticing other teams’ players.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-increases-fines-tampering

Well LeBron is going to be broke then..

[dougthonus]

One thing to note, an investigation doesn't mean guilt necessarily either.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the only thing the Bulls couldn't do was contact Ball directly. I'm sure the contacted him of course, but hopefully through the same back channels that everyone else uses to get around such rules.

[dougthonus]

I'm sure they could if that reporter has texts from Westbrook, Lebron, AD, their agents or Lakers staff explaining what he reported. It be very easy to investigate. The NBA just doesn't want to investigate it since it picks and chooses what to investigate.

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Moved this to the tampering thread.

Do you think there is any possibility the reporter is going to give that information to the NBA if he has it? Not if he ever wants to talk to another player again in his life.

The league isn't the FBI, they can't just go take private communications from reporters or players. They have some control over auditing the teams because the teams collectively all agreed to give it to them and for no other reason.

[sco]

Can we trade Lauri for a tampering fine? Maybe we can get them to match - would seem like a fair deal.

[Leslie Forman]

I don't think the league has it out just for the Bulls. I think they arbitrarily punish some teams(not just us) and not others.

And that's ridiculous, bordering on '85 Lottery conspiracy ridiculous.

Do you really think Adam Silver is seeing all the deals and just randomly picking and choosing who he wants to punish? Come on.

Everyone here is whining about LeBron, which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules. Players can do as they please. Teams cannot.

This is not true. Players can't attempt to induce players to come to their team legally. What LeBron has done is absolutely against the rules. The difference is the league can't audit player communication nor can it stop player communication via its rules meaning they effectively have no meaningful way to enforce the player side of it, but it is still against the rules for players to do this.

The rule is incredibly vague and we are seeing right now from the Westbrook trade that that kind of thing is functionally fair game. Absolutely nobody seems to be saying that trade should be voided when it is absolute lock, stock, and barrel evidence of "inducing," as they say. Even when it comes to saying things publicly, the league has said that as long as you don't overdo it, you're free and clear.

[Clint Eastwood]

Everyone here is whining about LeBron, which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the rules. Players can do as they please. Teams cannot.

This is not true. Players can't attempt to induce players to come to their team legally. What LeBron has done is absolutely against the rules. The difference is the league can't audit player communication nor can it stop player communication via its rules meaning they effectively have no meaningful way to enforce the player side of it, but it is still against the rules for players to do this.

And it’s been reported that Russ and LeBron actually had a sit down prior to free agency to discuss him coming to LA. But as you note, the NBA won’t be doing anything about that even though, if proved, it’s tampering.

Edit: AD was in the meeting too. Here’s an article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/russell-westbrook-met-with-lebron-james-anthony-davis-weeks-ago-to-discuss-playing-for-lakers-per-report/amp/

But how was it tampering? Were there unsigned players involved? Can’t westbrook talk to his friend and say I’d love to be traded to the lakers to play with you, ill talk to my front office to see if we can work something out.

[dougthonus]

The rule is incredibly vague and we are seeing right now from the Westbrook trade that that kind of thing is functionally fair game. Absolutely nobody seems to be saying that trade should be voided when it is absolute lock, stock, and barrel evidence of "inducing," as they say. Even when it comes to saying things publicly, the league has said that as long as you don't overdo it, you're free and clear.

I agree it is functionally allowed. It's what makes the rules stupid though. This type of thing is actually harmful to teams when players under contract convince other players under contract to demand trades.

People talking to impending FAs during a quiet period is completely meaningless.

Either way, maybe the Bulls did something they will get caught by or maybe they didn't. Who knows. As I said, the NBA's rules around this are just stupid and don't stop actual harm and serve no purpose. This is ignoring the Bulls situation, I said the same thing about Draymond getting fined for talking about Booker on air when in a commentator role, other FO people fined for the same thing, the Bucks/Kings last year, all of that crap is meaningless and has no impact.

The stuff that matters they don't attempt to enforce, likely because they can't.

[dougthonus]

But how was it tampering? Were there unsigned players involved? Can’t westbrook talk to his friend and say I’d love to be traded to the lakers to play with you, ill talk to my front office to see if we can work something out.

LeBron can't legally try and convince him to come to the Lakers. The fact that they are signed with other teams actually makes it worse and more harmful from a practical perspective, but as I noted, the league doesn't have power to stop player from meetings or audit their communication so regardless of how illegal the conversation may be, there is no proof.

[mj234eva]

This is not true. Players can't attempt to induce players to come to their team legally. What LeBron has done is absolutely against the rules. The difference is the league can't audit player communication nor can it stop player communication via its rules meaning they effectively have no meaningful way to enforce the player side of it, but it is still against the rules for players to do this.

And it’s been reported that Russ and LeBron actually had a sit down prior to free agency to discuss him coming to LA. But as you note, the NBA won’t be doing anything about that even though, if proved, it’s tampering.

Edit: AD was in the meeting too. Here’s an article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/russell-westbrook-met-with-lebron-james-anthony-davis-weeks-ago-to-discuss-playing-for-lakers-per-report/amp/

But how was it tampering? Were there unsigned players involved? Can’t westbrook talk to his friend and say I’d love to be traded to the lakers to play with you, ill talk to my front office to see if we can work something out.

Sure he can say it, as long as it is not found out he said it. If found out, Westbrook would be fined.

[Neonblazer]

But how was it tampering? Were there unsigned players involved? Can’t westbrook talk to his friend and say I’d love to be traded to the lakers to play with you, ill talk to my front office to see if we can work something out.

LeBron can't legally try and convince him to come to the Lakers. The fact that they are signed with other teams actually makes it worse and more harmful from a practical perspective, but as I noted, the league doesn't have power to stop player from meetings or audit their communication so regardless of how illegal the conversation may be, there is no proof.

What makes it illegal? You would have to proof that Lebron was talking to Westbrook on behalf of Lakers to make it illegal.

If Westbrook said he wanted to come to Lakers that wouldn't mean he has made any kind of agreement to come to Lakers.

[Leslie Forman]

I agree it is functionally allowed. It's what makes the rules stupid though. This type of thing is actually harmful to teams when players under contract convince other players under contract to demand trades.

To play devil's advocate, I think the reason they have to have the rule in there is because without it you could have some ridiculous thing like a player literally just buying a guy a house or something technically be legal. Which might actually be? Who knows.

I did mention those outliers but those are special cases and you know it. Those were goldmines. Hell I think Lowe and Ringer were doing midnight update podcasts during Kawhi gate. The problem is that can’t be replicated unless it is a super huge name. The one thing they can do is have an apex moment year after year… I agree that having it hit headlines for months on end would be ideal but it just isn’t possible.

I mean, we're seeing it right now with the Ben Simmons saga. With the Dame rumors, which looks like will be the big will he/won't he story of the season. There has already been tons of content generated from that, and now on top of that, there will be a megaburst of content that still as yet to happen when they are eventually traded.

Imagine how many more social media mentions, how many more talking head segments, and how many more podcasts there would still be going on even about Lonzo if he was still talking to teams, especially because it'd mean that there would still be other signings still to be made.

The NBA loves foreplay. They don't want to be a bunch of one pump chumps.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

But how was it tampering? Were there unsigned players involved? Can’t westbrook talk to his friend and say I’d love to be traded to the lakers to play with you, ill talk to my front office to see if we can work something out.

LeBron can't legally try and convince him to come to the Lakers. The fact that they are signed with other teams actually makes it worse and more harmful from a practical perspective, but as I noted, the league doesn't have power to stop player from meetings or audit their communication so regardless of how illegal the conversation may be, there is no proof.

Allow players to receive ownership as part of their comp. Teams would give star players ownership shares. NBA can audit its owners. Problem solved.

[Repeat 3-peat]

**** Adam Silver.

[WindyCityBorn]

If they did what the felt they had to do to get him I’m fine with it. Hopefully they can’t prove it though.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Also, the NBAs cap nature seemingly encourages early contact. The myriad of exceptions to navigate, biggest being S&T, means the official start is just when other moves become public and you navigate how to facilitate moves. The Shams and Wojs are the unofficial gatekeepers of this system that keeps the negotiated sides honest during the "illegal" period.

Solution is to open things up. Allow teams and players more freedom to enter and exit contracts underneath a much harder cap.

[D_GoLow]

In AK I trust!

[othawhitemeat]

If silver goes after this say “bye bye” to any credibility he still had with fans

I can't stand Silver in all honesty. He is a sell out to China allowing it is okay for citizens to be treated crappy while not condoning other civ rights, caters to certain superstars, and allows for rules that has allowed softness in addition to allowing certain superstars to not to be suspended when others are. Cant stand the guy at all. If we get in trouble, fine w it if it was the same for other teams aka Lebron

[RagingBull316]

Also, the NBAs cap nature seemingly encourages early contact. The myriad of exceptions to navigate, biggest being S&T, means the official start is just when other moves become public and you navigate how to facilitate moves. The Shams and Wojs are the unofficial gatekeepers of this system that keeps the negotiated sides honest during the "illegal" period.

Solution is to open things up. Allow teams and players more freedom to enter and exit contracts underneath a much harder cap.

With trades being allowed during the draft, and teams also being able to talk to and negotiate with their own free agents. I don't understand what's tampering about the Pelicans telling the Bulls what Lonzo wants in Free Agency, and working out a sign and trade. It wasn't like there were any unrestricted Free Agents in the deal.

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[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

This is some nonsense tbh. Hope the NBA gets embarrassed with these dumb acquisitions. Pick and choose who they want to investigate