PG: 1-2-3 Cancun

[RSP83]

Man, these guys fool me every year. Get my hopes up and then lay an egg in a play in game. i hope nobody gets paid, in fact pay me for watching that crap.

The AKME Bulls have been making a living recently on beating tanking teams or teams that are resting players to finish out the season and give both themselves and the fanbase false hope.

I still hate this concept. Is there a way to eliminate tanking completely? Make it a real lottery with equal chance for every 30 team regardless of position? lol.

[Jcool0]

Man, these guys fool me every year. Get my hopes up and then lay an egg in a play in game. i hope nobody gets paid, in fact pay me for watching that crap.

The AKME Bulls have been making a living recently on beating tanking teams or teams that are resting players to finish out the season and give both themselves and the fanbase false hope.

I still hate this concept. Is there a way to eliminate tanking completely? Make it a real lottery with equal chance for every 30 team regardless of position? lol.

Do something that baseball does:

White Sox are ineligible for the top six picks in the 2025 MLB Draft due to a rule in the Major League Baseball's Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). This rule states that teams that pay into revenue sharing (like the White Sox) are not eligible for lottery picks in back-to-back years. Since the White Sox secured the fifth overall pick in the 2024 draft, they are excluded from the lottery for 2025. They will be able to pick no earlier than 10th in the 2025 draft.

[Shill]

Giddey and Coby are not a winning backcourt. They're just too unathletic/defensively deficient. It's fine for the regular season.

Between the two players, I think Giddey has more upside, so I would pick him.

Well...Kyrie + Luka is a defensively worse backcourt, and they got to the Finals. Luka is significantly worse than anyone on the Bulls.
What happens on the P&R is the guard is screened off and the C has the bulk of the responsibility for preventing a score from the ballhandler, same as it was Jo's job to stop the P&R not Derrick's. Dallas got to the Finals because they had Gafford + Lively, Luka's atrocious D didn't stop them. Murray is also a terrible defender.

I mean it's 4Q, elimination game, Herro is going off all game mostly inside, and who the heck is Vuc even guarding on this possession where Herro gets a layup at the rim? His man Bam is by the 3P line but Vuc isn't there, and Vuc is nowhere near the rim either. He's guarding a space on the floor with no Heat player.



2 minutes earlier, Herro gets another shot at the restricted area 2' from the rim, Vuc doesn't even get a hand up he's just watching Herro shoot.



Vuc reminds me of when reporters asked Skiles what Eddy Curry could do to improve his rebounding. "Jump."

But Luka and Kyrie are both ELITE offensive players.

Coby doesn’t have the handle, playmaking acumen, or ability to get to the rim/draw fouls like either of them.

[sco]

That game was a useful measuring stick. I've been worried that we were getting an artificial read on this team during March's games against tanking and resting teams, and this confirmed it.

The Coby illusion seems to have been dispelled. I think we should trade him because he doesn't give enough offense to make up for his lack of defense. If we still need a #1 option (who also likely won't be good on defense), you really can't keep Coby. I think getting rid of Coby will speed up Matas' development as a bonus.

Vuc, who had been playing better of late too, really needs to go. Even if it costs us Ayo or all of our tradeable 2nds to do it.

The good news is that AK will get some more value for the 1st that he traded to get.

[Red8911]

Man, these guys fool me every year. Get my hopes up and then lay an egg in a play in game. i hope nobody gets paid, in fact pay me for watching that crap.

The AKME Bulls have been making a living recently on beating tanking teams or teams that are resting players to finish out the season and give both themselves and the fanbase false hope.

I still hate this concept. Is there a way to eliminate tanking completely? Make it a real lottery with equal chance for every 30 team regardless of position? lol.

Yeah NBA has to do something, tanking is terrible for the league. Can’t have half the teams trying to lose and fan bases (like our own) wanting their own team to lose games. Terrible system. Bad look for the top basketball league in the world.

My solution would be to have a fair set draft. Disregard teams records completely, doesn’t matter how many games you lost.

Example Bulls pick in top 15 this year but next year will have to pick from 15-30. This way tanking is eliminated completely.

[NecessaryEvil]

That game was a useful measuring stick. I've been worried that we were getting an artificial read on this team during March's games against tanking and resting teams, and this confirmed it.

The Coby illusion seems to have been dispelled. I think we should trade him because he doesn't give enough offense to make up for his lack of defense. If we still need a #1 option (who also likely won't be good on defense), you really can't keep Coby. I think getting rid of Coby will speed up Matas' development as a bonus.

Vuc, who had been playing better of late too, really needs to go. Even if it costs us Ayo or all of our tradeable 2nds to do it.

The good news is that AK will get some more value for the 1st that he traded to get.

I’d love to look into Coby + fillers (picks/expirings) for Zion right about now.

I LOVE Coby White though but a #1 like Zion, he is not.

[Wingy]

The AKME Bulls have been making a living recently on beating tanking teams or teams that are resting players to finish out the season and give both themselves and the fanbase false hope.

The Bulls didn't play like that when twice beating a Lakers team that was trying to win every game, and a Denver team (without Luka) that was doing the same, and a Kings team that is at least as good as Miami that was trying to do the same.

Last night's game doesn't invalidate the positive aspects of their previous 20 games, just as their previous 20 games doesn't invalidate the negative aspects associated with last night's debacle. The reality is decidedly mixed.

Meh. Seen it before. Not because I have any special evaluation talent or knowledge, but just existed long enough to have seen this kind of “run” play out plenty of times in the past.

Denver without Joker (and Aaron Gordon) isn’t a good team. Lakers wins needed them to collapse plus a beyond half-court heave, and then old man Bron in his first game back after 2 weeks injured. These things don’t suggest any kind of sustainable pattern.

They had a nice feel good run when it mattered way more to them than their run of weak, tanking, mentally transitioning toward vaca opponents. Reality hits hard when this kind of playin run isn’t based on top-end talent (eg - even younger OKC).

They’re simply rebuilding what they just broke up, but with different faces.

[NecessaryEvil]

You said Giddey is a franchise player and implied Coby and Matas are too, if not outright stated it.

Do me a favor and show me

Giddey had a historic game, never done before in history after putting up damn near a triple double since all-star. He did indeed look like a franchise player, he’s 22. I made the statement after such game.

Now, Where oh where did I state Matas and Coby were franchise players. You a real weirdo.

Coby has been here 5 yrs and just got to 20ppg in a season. He is obviously not a franchise player.

Matas is a 20 yr old kid that has shown flashes of greatness. Even if he isn’t a franchise guy, he is unlikely to be traded in the forseeable future.

Again, you a real weirdo. Don’t mistake my optimism for delusion.

You said Coby is literally unstoppable and one of the best players in the league right now. One of the best players in the league who is literally unstoppable is surely a franchise player.

As for the bolded, I think that's exactly what I'm doing, but how are you gonna fault me for taking you at your word?

All you do is insult me despite me never insulting you. I'm a real weirdo for talking to you on a public message board lol. Last week I was a miserable sarcastic aszhole for daring to suggest that just handing over money to Coby and Giddey for whooping on injured tanking teams for a month and a half might not be the best idea.

We don't have any franchise players. It would be great if we did, but we don't. I like these guys, they're very good players, but none of them are worth max or near max contracts.

We're a long way from being relevant. If Coby and Giddey are the core, then you have no core. Don't compound that by giving them the bag and crippling the franchise for the next 5 years because they had a great month and a half.

So,

Me stating that he looked unstoppable after putting up 20 plus for 20 plus games straight, while putting up 30 for three games straight means I think he’s a franchise player?

I said he’s a core player, not a franchise player. Core doesn’t indicate franchise. There’s only so many of those players in the entire NBA.

Moving on

[KissedByaRose1]

https://www.tankathon.com/

Soooooo does anyone know how this works after the play in shake up or are our lottery odds currently set at 5.7% for top 4 and 1.2% for number 1? Or will we get a few more ping pong balls because Miami and Dallas "advanced" further than us?

As far as the game goes. We suck and we're not even the promising kind of suck yet because outside of Matas we have no one who projects to potentially be a top 25 player one day (and no guarantee he gets there at all).

I've said this in a few posts but that last month of Bulls basketball was sneakily the most damaging of the AKME era/greatest hits of their incompetence. Maybe even worse than the Vooch trade considering the talent in this upcoming draft. having the last 3 seasons we've had and not having a top 7 pick to show for it is just so gutting. We need luck, and we need help and i don't think either are coming.

[Dengness9]

So many people ready to just move on from Coby. I find it laughable. Sure, explore his trade value, no doubt. Last nights bad game doesn’t change that he’s still on one of the best deals in the league for another year.

You all need to grab a hold of yourselves and remember just how challenging it’s been for the Bulls franchise to find truly talented players that can make a difference. Coby is not supposed to be the #1 guy. He can have his outbursts, and average 20 a game… but the standard he is being held to by some right now is that of a max player basically. There has to be perspective.

Again, I’m open to moving Coby for the right deal but some also seem to forget he’s been a total model of loyalty and has been a great teammate and has stepped up as a leader who doesn’t bring negativity or controversy to the team. He’s still just 25 years old. I for one, understand players like him don’t grow on trees. Let the disappointment mellow down and then let’s come back to speaking on Coby’s future

[Red8911]

Giddey and Coby are not a winning backcourt. They're just too unathletic/defensively deficient. It's fine for the regular season.

Between the two players, I think Giddey has more upside, so I would pick him.

Well...Kyrie + Luka is a defensively worse backcourt, and they got to the Finals. Luka is significantly worse than anyone on the Bulls.
What happens on the P&R is the guard is screened off and the C has the bulk of the responsibility for preventing a score from the ballhandler, same as it was Jo's job to stop the P&R not Derrick's. Dallas got to the Finals because they had Gafford + Lively, Luka's atrocious D didn't stop them. Murray is also a terrible defender.

I mean it's 4Q, elimination game, Herro is going off all game mostly inside, and who the heck is Vuc even guarding on this possession where Herro gets a layup at the rim? His man Bam is by the 3P line but Vuc isn't there, and Vuc is nowhere near the rim either. He's guarding a space on the floor with no Heat player.



2 minutes earlier, Herro gets another shot at the restricted area 2' from the rim, Vuc doesn't even get a hand up he's just watching Herro shoot.



Vuc reminds me of when reporters asked Skiles what Eddy Curry could do to improve his rebounding. "Jump."

Miami plan was clear, attack the paint= free cheese. They knew Vuc wasn’t going to stop them.

Strange that Collins only played 5 min, he actually helps on defense.Bulls definitely need to solve this problem. If the roster stays the same then they need a rim protector even though they would get weaker offensively by losing Vuc.

[Indomitable]

Giddey and Coby are not a winning backcourt. They're just too unathletic/defensively deficient. It's fine for the regular season.

Between the two players, I think Giddey has more upside, so I would pick him.

Well...Kyrie + Luka is a defensively worse backcourt, and they got to the Finals. Luka is significantly worse than anyone on the Bulls.
What happens on the P&R is the guard is screened off and the C has the bulk of the responsibility for preventing a score from the ballhandler, same as it was Jo's job to stop the P&R not Derrick's. Dallas got to the Finals because they had Gafford + Lively, Luka's atrocious D didn't stop them. Murray is also a terrible defender.

I mean it's 4Q, elimination game, Herro is going off all game mostly inside, and who the heck is Vuc even guarding on this possession where Herro gets a layup at the rim? His man Bam is by the 3P line but Vuc isn't there, and Vuc is nowhere near the rim either. He's guarding a space on the floor with no Heat player.



2 minutes earlier, Herro gets another shot at the restricted area 2' from the rim, Vuc doesn't even get a hand up he's just watching Herro shoot.



Vuc reminds me of when reporters asked Skiles what Eddy Curry could do to improve his rebounding. "Jump."

Kyrie was actually guarding people last year

[ShouldaPaidBG]

That was so sad man

[drosestruts]

What the heck is Billy Donovan is still doing here?

Would be nice to pick up a tougher couch like Mike Malone or even Budenhozer but we all know hall of famer Billy Donovan isn’t going anywhere unless he himself decides to move on to something else.

haha if you've ever been upset that Billy doesn't play Matas enough you'll LOVE Mike Malone.

A big reason he was fired was his stubborness in refusing to play the young guys.

[Indomitable]

Take what you can get for Coby?!?

That’s wild wtf

Giddey and Coby are not a winning backcourt. They're just too unathletic/defensively deficient. It's fine for the regular season.

Between the two players, I think Giddey has more upside, so I would pick him.

Those two won 15 out of their last 22 games starting though.

They started most of the season and the whole thing counts.

When it came to put up or shut up. Coby was the same guy. How many times did people just take the ball from him?

It was not him missing. He got sonned by at least 4 guards and small forwards.

Coby is not the one. Giddey struggled but he actually was somewhat effective.

Coby was running from guys last night.

[Indomitable]

You said Giddey is a franchise player and implied Coby and Matas are too, if not outright stated it.

Do me a favor and show me

Giddey had a historic game, never done before in history after putting up damn near a triple double since all-star. He did indeed look like a franchise player, he’s 22. I made the statement after such game.

Now, Where oh where did I state Matas and Coby were franchise players. You a real weirdo.

Coby has been here 5 yrs and just got to 20ppg in a season. He is obviously not a franchise player.

Matas is a 20 yr old kid that has shown flashes of greatness. Even if he isn’t a franchise guy, he is unlikely to be traded in the forseeable future.

Again, you a real weirdo. Don’t mistake my optimism for delusion.

You said Coby is literally unstoppable and one of the best players in the league right now. One of the best players in the league who is literally unstoppable is surely a franchise player.

As for the bolded, I think that's exactly what I'm doing, but how are you gonna fault me for taking you at your word?

All you do is insult me despite me never insulting you. I'm a real weirdo for talking to you on a public message board lol. Last week I was a miserable sarcastic aszhole for daring to suggest that just handing over money to Coby and Giddey for whooping on injured tanking teams for a month and a half might not be the best idea.

We don't have any franchise players. It would be great if we did, but we don't. I like these guys, they're very good players, but none of them are worth max or near max contracts.

We're a long way from being relevant. If Coby and Giddey are the core, then you have no core. Don't compound that by giving them the bag and crippling the franchise for the next 5 years because they had a great month and a half.

A lot people fall for this.

Remember during the first rebuild the young guys would look a lot better the last 20 games.

Most veteran teams mail in the games after they realize their limited window.

The Bulls would end up with about the same record if they ran this team back.

Matas is the guy with the most room for growth.

This hope that Pat will get it and Coby will be more then Lou Williams is a joke.

[RSP83]

The AKME Bulls have been making a living recently on beating tanking teams or teams that are resting players to finish out the season and give both themselves and the fanbase false hope.

I still hate this concept. Is there a way to eliminate tanking completely? Make it a real lottery with equal chance for every 30 team regardless of position? lol.

Do something that baseball does:

White Sox are ineligible for the top six picks in the 2025 MLB Draft due to a rule in the Major League Baseball's Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). This rule states that teams that pay into revenue sharing (like the White Sox) are not eligible for lottery picks in back-to-back years. Since the White Sox secured the fifth overall pick in the 2024 draft, they are excluded from the lottery for 2025. They will be able to pick no earlier than 10th in the 2025 draft.

I mean the tanking situation has this weird unhealthy polarizing effect on the fanbase of teams that are at the bottom half:

• Fanbase rooting for losses (tanking) is good. Considered ok, and to some extent, smart, because it improves the future prospect.

• Fanbase rooting for wins is bad. Considered dumb, because they root for mediocrity.

If win has almost zero value for these teams and lottery odds considered more valuable currency, why even play the game? IMO wins should still hold the highest value for the integrity of the game (and the product). I just think win should be more of a factor in shaping a team's future including in chance of drafting the best talent. While current lottery odds is more improved than previous version, it's still incentivize losing a bit more than winning. No, Play-in does not give fair value for teams like the Bulls.

[FriedRise]

What we know is true is that AK will never tank. If we trade Coby, Vooch, Giddey, etc., it'll just be for another players who will roughly give similar production. We have the same exact record as we did last year after trading 3 of our best players. The players we got back didn't make us any worse.

Also, if AK ever considers tanking, he wouldn't have cared about getting back our 1st from San Antonio. We would've easily been able to secure that if we'd just stayed the course. In AK's mind, he probably thinks if we could just stop running into Miami in the play-in, then we'd be a playoff team.

[MrSparkle]

Well, the kicker is going to be if Miami bombs their Atlanta game. I think we move up if they beat the Hawks, while they keep #11 if they lose. Ditto with the Mavs, though I doubt they beat Memphis.

One other frustration about the game is that Miami literally has 1 offensive threat: Herro. And they let him go off, a 3P specialist, IN THE PAINT. Billy didn’t think to sub Zach Collins, Phillips and target his interior defense before the score went crazy.

There’s no way Bam, Wiggins, Burks, Ware and Mitchell are going to shoot you out the arena if you suffocate Herro and dare those clank jobs to kill you from 3P. Instead Billy let them score almost 100% in the paint. If they had to rely on Duncan, then you scheme to exploit his defense. But they didn’t have to, cause Herro got 38 points and whatever he wanted.

I’m sorry, but i’m waking up with a Billy hangover. This guy is the most stubborn, deflating, idiotic, can’t-see-over-the-mountain coach. I could see Atlanta simply scheming their way to a win.

It is so frustrating that we are 99% out the Flagg stakes, and 100% out the playoffs. Big old D+ from me for the season. The worst case scenario basically happened. The guy up for a big contract had the best 2 months of his life until the first game that mattered, but he still stuffed the box score. The rest of the guaranteed roster sucked. And we moved from 30% odds of drafting a stud to 5%.

[Jcool0]

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