Infinity2152 wrote:Who cares if Vuc has value over expiring contract? That's still value. And it's ridiculous logic, of course he would have value over one or two $20 mill expirings who can't get on the court. Vuc is likely starting wherever he goes, or at least playing 20+ minutes. That's worth more than a $20 mill expiring you can't play any minutes, right? Is Vucevic getting traded to a team and playing less than 20 minutes?
No, I don't think it is worth more for the Pelicans, nor do I think Vuc is a starting caliber player in the NBA. Maybe a 20 minute player, but I would guess the Pelicans would see no difference in Vuc vs Huerter vs Collins in this trade, but to the extent they do see some value saying "I don't care, Vuc averages 19/10 that has value" is just being purposefully obtuse about Vuc's value to a rebuilding team. 19/10 sounds like a good player, but Vuc isn't a good player. Those counting stats are actually disruptive to the team, he doesn't fit their timeline, he has no trade value (as we saw at the deadline this past year when we were shopping him).
You say team overrate their own players, and you're right we do. So what does the fact that we're talking about sending a $20 mill expiring, Coby and picks as even an option for Zion mean? That Coby is perceived as far less valuable than Zion. Half the people here don't even want to keep Coby as a starting SG, lmao!!!! They don't want to pay him $30 mill. And he's our own player, with no attitude or real injury issues. He's 25, he's likely near his ceiling right now.
I am not trying to be insulting, but I have no idea what your point is. I agree though that Coby is probably near his cap if not at it right now.
I want you to say clearly that you think we would get more in a trade for Coby than the Pelicans will get in a trade for Zion. Then you can call the statement ridiculous.
I don't think Coby is worth more than Zion. I said Coby's ceiling is much higher than Zion's floor which was your statement. Zion's floor is -120M or whatever he is owed on his contract. Thus far, he is worthless as an NBA player. The Pelicans from a win standpoint would probably be better off he he were simply not on their team because they would have reallocated the money elsewhere. That is Zion's floor. Coby's ceiling is higher than being a -120M dollar player. In fact any player that is just cheaper than Zion has a higher ceiling than Zion's floor. Jevon Carter's ceiling is higher than Zion's floor, because Jevon Carter is only -7m and Zion's floor is you have 120M dollars clogged on your cap with no value and while technically, every player's floor is the being worth nothing on their contract, with Zion it is a reasonable assumption, perhaps even the most likely outcome, that this is true for him which isn't something you could say about any other starting caliber guy in the NBA except maybe Embiid and Lonzo.
You want to keep saying he's going to play one third of the games, give a reason other than "Well, it's been like that 4 of 6 years." They are different injuries. Take out year he missed the entire season his average is 42 games. Stupid stat. We don't know how many games he's been a healthy scratch either. Tell me his back is going to give out, or his ankles are bad, not just "Somehow, he's going to get hurt because it happened 4 of 6 years." He's played close to 35 games ONCE in his career. Be great if people identify why and how they think he's going to get hurt. That would at least be more productive than, "He's always hurt." Different discussion if his games played were 35, 35, 35, 35, 35 and not all over the place.
2020-2021 Zion played 61 games. Pelicans are 31-41.
2021-2022 Did not play Pelicans are 36-40
2022-2023 Zion plays 29 games Pelicans are 42-40
2023-2024 Zion plays 70 games Yay, 49-33
2024-2025 Zion plays 30 games Some (at least me) think he could have played more Team is 21-61
Outside of 2023-2024, doesn't seem like more Zion's injuries have been the reason the Pelicans have been bad.
He's played 24, 61, 0, 29, 70, 30. So in four of six seasons he has played 30 games or fewer. Why is he hurt? Who knows, but it is likely a combination of weight, speed, torque, and biomechanics. It's all lower body injuries which tend to be compensatory for each other and beget other lower body injuries. Over his career, I don't know of a meaningful player that has averaged fewer games per season. I looked at Rose, Lonzo and Embiid and they all averaged more, counting their fully missed years (Lonzo barely).
Maybe it is just a horrible string of bad luck for Zion, but it seems like the guy whom has played the fewest games in the NBA amongst guys whom would clearly be a starter if they were healthy seems like someone that there is ample reason to be concerned that he will miss more games in the future.
