Just for fun: What do you do to go all in on this team?

[Jcool0]

If you are going to risk it on somebody i would think Zion would be the better fit then going after Ja or giving up a ton for JJJ.

[nomorezorro]

I'll add one. IHart. There is a chance OKC simply doesn't pick up his option due to the massive lux tax bill coming in. Good passer, rebounder, can score some. Can't shoot from range. Eh defender.

hartenstein is by far and away the most obvious guy for us to target in free agency next year, and when you compare giving him ~$25m a year or whatever vs. trading a bunch of stuff for the right to pay a guy like JJJ $50m a year, it is hard for me to be too into the idea of giving up a haul for a non slam-dunk superstar

also looking at the swings in JJJ's 3pt% on a year to year basis...pretty easy to imagine a trade for him becoming vuc 2.0

[Red Larrivee]

If you are going to risk it on somebody i would think Zion would be the better fit then going after Ja or giving up a ton for JJJ.

Let's just add Zion to the "very good player with name value, but doesn't fit" tier:

Ja Morant
Trae Young
Domantas Sabonis
Zion Williamson

[coldfish]

Until proven otherwise I’ll keep saying it. Enjoy this for a year because we can’t and won’t stay built like this. And the more games we win, the less likely it becomes, because our role players become league darlings and their contract value goes way up.

We need to trade some pieces whether it’s for an “all in” trade or not. This is a blast but it’s not what we’re going to look like long term.

Disagree.

CF showed above how we can keep everyone even if they get paid market value. Don’t think any of these guys think they are the man and want to prove how great they are on an up and coming team. Ayo is a Chicago kid too. Don’t think anyone gets crazy overpaid enough that AK doesn’t give a competitive offer either.

He will want to prove how great his build is.

If guys do get crazy overpaid I think we can find underpaid vets to quite a bit of what we are seeing. The beauty is the brand of hoops we are playing. Who doesn’t want to play with competitive unselfish players?

Those are assumed market values that are going to be greatly impacted by team success. How much do you think Ayo's stock has gone up, just him?

Plus we have to pay Matas in two years and Its probably going to be a max. We need to consolidate some of these guys into less players that fit a need - specifically a center who fits what we are trying to do. No matter how well he plays this year, Vuc is done as a Bull. Which is another part of how different we are going to be, and soon.

Or we need to trade some of them off individually for draft assets for the war chest. We are going to have to pick between some of these guys or its going to hurt the long term outlook of the team. And we finally have a long term outlook that doesn't blow. So lets not screw it up by falling too much in love with something that can't be sustained. We get a small window to maximize these assets and take advantage of their rapidly increasing value.

Showing my age but I believe about 20 years or so ago you were pushing the fact that the Bulls needed to do a consolidation trade before they handed out extensions. You were correct then and you are correct now. Back in 2005 or so, the Bulls were in a fantastic position and ended up squandering it away on a terrible free agent (Ben Wallace), a bad trade (Tyson Chandler) and then couldn't afford their own guys and let Gordon walk for nothing when he had value in 2005. The Bulls saved themselves by being gifted Noah and Rose but they had successfully turned a good situation into a bad one.

This really feels the same right now and its kind of why I made the thread.

Chicago's assets:
Shouldn't trade - Giddey and Matas
Available for the right deal - All future picks, Portland pick, Coby, Noa, Patrick, Ayo, Jones
Should be eminently available - Vucevic, Collins, Huerter, Okoro, Smith, Carter, Terry

Chicago doesn't have to trade them all but trading several of them for one guy better than what Chicago has should be a priority. The hard part: Age, fit and contract matter. Identifying the right guy and convincing someone to trade them is the biggest challenge. We don't want to Ben Wallace this up.

Last note: Free agency really doesn't appear to be a solution. The names are terrible. The best free agents are the ones that will be leaving Chicago and this is a huge reason to trade them NOW.

[Red Larrivee]

Jackson is one of the few players who I could at least imagine fitting this roster easily. He's a two-way threat, he can play PF or C, athletic, and fits like a glove next to Giddey and Buzelis. Plus, he just turned 26. Add a rim running C, and you're cooking.

But, I agree that he has his own warts:

- Inconsistent shooter
- Poor rebounder
- Fouls a lot
- Big salary
- Doesn't play the amount of minutes you'd expect for his salary

[nomorezorro]

i don't think zion is a "doesn't fit" guy

it's risky as all hell but he's a plus passer and i think he's talented enough to work with the ball in his hands less. lord knows he hasn't had a PG worth a damn for most of his career

[Red Larrivee]

i don't think zion is a "doesn't fit" guy

it's risky as all hell but he's a plus passer and i think he's talented enough to work with the ball in his hands less. lord knows he hasn't had a PG worth a damn for most of his career

I just think we need to be closer to a "hell yeah" about acquiring a player and not squinting our eyes at it. Zion would represent the latter. There's just too many risks that are unnecessary for us right now:

- One of the most ISO-heavy players in the league (Top-6 three years in a row)
- Doesn't shoot threes
- Complicates some defensive assignments
- Physical maintenance
- Work ethic
- Off-court issues/distractions

[nomorezorro]

yeah i basically agree, and re: the general premise of the thread i am kind of at the point of "this is fun to casually think about, but at a certain point you probably just come to terms with the fact this team still isn't well positioned to go all in"

zion to me is in the camp of "i'd seriously mull it over if new orleans was just looking to move on from him and didn't really care about getting a good return"

[DuckIII]

I agree overall. We both know AK won’t do that. He will try to maximize every win now.

These are the new concerns. Despite how incredibly well his recent moves have worked, I just can't trust him to not screw it up with impatience or fear or both. I've been a big real-time supporter of AK's moves from the Pat extension forward. Granted, that extension looked bad for a bit, but I'm just pointing out a spot in time. I've approved of pretty much everything he has done since then. Giddey trade. Lavine trade. Matas draft. Noa draft, which includes not trading with Pels. Ball trade I didn't support as the best option, but I didn't have a problem with it either.

These have all been good things (Noa is an opinion, I think we can agree the others are facts). But he can undo it by being afraid to consolidate or by being too impatient by consolidating for the wrong guy on the decline. Both would be consistent with prior conduct and statements.

Ayo has certainly increased value in 5 games. Once Coby comes back he won’t have the volume to show. It’s similar to Tre showing out and then getting hurt. Still think Ayo gets 15M per.

What you are seeing now is what Ayo is. All Coby's return will do is limit the minutes and impact of others. I don't see it making much of a difference for Ayo anymore because the full version of him has arrived and that's not changing. While there may be some statistical differences, NBA teams are going to know Ayo's value to them this year, and it will be high.

He's healthy for the first time in 1.5 seasons. He's finally playing in the system that plays to his strengths. Prior to the Lavine trade we played the worst possible style imaginable for Ayo. Which ironically made him better because he was forced to continue to abandon his Alpha-scorer style to become a passer, cutter, defender with a 3 to stay on the court. He's a stud who will maximize every ounce of talent he has. I have a very, very hard time imagining a future with both him and Coby on this team. And if there is such a future they will be so expensive that several others will have to be sacrificed.

Ayo is not signing a sub-MLE deal. Its a fantasy.

Same for Huerter. His age and game won’t get paid either. His numbers will go down with Coby coming back as well.

Huerter is only 27, is already making $17 million per year, is playing arguably the best basketball of his life, and salaries are exploding. People aren't going to forget what these guys are doing just because Coby comes back. How many minutes do you think Ayo and Huerter lose when Coby comes back? 3 each? Okoro is already playing less than them and Phillips is getting 7 minutes a game. And Tre is playing 30 mpg. That's where those minutes will go down.

Trade Huerter now for a first round pick if we are going with Ayo and Coby. Can't have all 3.

Vuc won’t be paid 20M next season.

He won't be back at all. No need to even calculate him.

Collins won’t be paid 18M next season with all those injuries. I bet Vuc returns. Vet defensive C signed and we draft a C to replace Vuc.

I don't think either will be back. So you need $$ to replace them.

I also don’t see the star player that fits this scheme and doesn’t kill the cap with their salary.

I realize this is an all-in thread, but that's not what I'm discussing now. I'm just talking about the ability and wisdom of trying to keep them all. That isn't limited to an "all in" trade. It includes smaller consolidation trades for need or selling off individual parts for picks.

Draft assets for the war chest… AK doesn’t value 1sts. He liked one for one player trades.

I'm not analyzing what AK is likely to do. I'm talking about what we should do. Too many times there a gap the size of the grand canyon between those things.

[coldfish]

Teams likely to have significant capspace in 2026:
Chicago, Washington, Brooklyn, LAL, Portland?, Utah?

Maybe a few others. Overall, not quite as bad as what I thought but given the age of the players, Huerter and Coby might be high on some of these teams' lists.

I'm not so sure about Ayo being above MLE. If one of these teams doesn't want to use up a significant chunk of their capspace on him I'm not sure he gets it. Huerter maybe too. Vucevic definitely. No way he gets above MLE.

IMO, Coby is about to get paaaaiiiid and should be on a short list to trade.

Standard MLE is $14m. Bulls may be able to re-sign most of their guys not named Coby for around $18m.

[Jcool0]

If you are going to risk it on somebody i would think Zion would be the better fit then going after Ja or giving up a ton for JJJ.

Let's just add Zion to the "very good player with name value, but doesn't fit" tier:

Ja Morant
Trae Young
Domantas Sabonis
Zion Williamson

How does Zion not fit? He isn't taking anything away from Giddey. He is only a risk in staying healthy. He has been a high positive player his entire career. To get a true superstar they are going to want Matas and i don't see the Bulls as good enough for that to be okay.

[nomorezorro]

coby still has a really really wide range of outcomes in free agency depending on how he plays this season, imo. a year in line with his career averages — about average efficiency, good-not-great 3pt shooting — and he's locking himself in as a "you probably ideally want him as a 6th man guy, and he's not even that good in that role" type player. i don't think that touches $20m/year, necessarily.

if he plays in line with his second half numbers from last year, he's probably pushing for at least $30m a year and could well find a taker given the paucity of other options.

unfortunately, we should probably be more motivated to keep him the more expensive he gets

[Red Larrivee]

If you are going to risk it on somebody i would think Zion would be the better fit then going after Ja or giving up a ton for JJJ.

Let's just add Zion to the "very good player with name value, but doesn't fit" tier:

Ja Morant
Trae Young
Domantas Sabonis
Zion Williamson

How does Zion not fit? He isn't taking anything away from Giddey. He is only a risk in staying healthy. He has been a high positive player his entire career. To get a true superstar they are going to want Matas and i don't see the Bulls as good enough for that to be okay.

Zion is one of the most ball dominant players in the league and doesn't shoot threes. He also makes it tougher to match up defensively as an undersized 6'6 PF. That doesn't even get to the intangibles and off court concerns. It's a laundry list of red flags.

It's just unnecessary.

[nomorezorro]

if we're talking about going all in — one 3d chess move could be to try to trade coby to fill the long-term hole at center and then make a play for austin reaves in free agency next year

[sco]

Yeah, the trick will be whether we can somehow get a true #1 option (who is an above average defender) AND a defensive C. I don't think we can pay Coby and do that, but maybe we could keep Ayo and do that. To me it's about opportunity cost.

[kodo]

If you are going to risk it on somebody i would think Zion would be the better fit then going after Ja or giving up a ton for JJJ.

Let's just add Zion to the "very good player with name value, but doesn't fit" tier:

Ja Morant
Trae Young
Domantas Sabonis
Zion Williamson

How does Zion not fit? He isn't taking anything away from Giddey. He is only a risk in staying healthy. He has been a high positive player his entire career. To get a true superstar they are going to want Matas and i don't see the Bulls as good enough for that to be okay.

He doesn't play like a traditional PF with a 2-man game with a PG, he's an iso player. We run the least iso's of any team in the league. He's probably more like Derozan but more bully-ball, at the end of the day he's looking for an iso and wants to muscle into contact to get to the FT line and he doesn't shoot 3s and not a great defender. Stylistically it's as big a clash with our current play as Derozan was.

What's unknown is if this is how he wants to play or it's just how Willie Green coaches. He's been the only coach in NOP for a long time. Maybe Zion would love to be more assisted.

[MrSparkle]

Zion is high risk (injury), and his TS and defensive ratings are negative. Can’t play him with Giddey. Why bother? Still feel like this team needs to build draft capital, not consolidate it for injury prone stars.

IMO Duren and Kessler are worth a S&T pursuit (though I presume both shoot for the max with their teams, which will be a steep overpay).

[coldfish]

Who are the poachable teams?
Big salary, poor performance: Dallas, Memphis, Sacramento, NOP, Phoenix, Toronto, Orlando?, Atlanta?
Just bad: Washington, Brooklyn
Huge salary commitments that they can't afford: OKC

[nomorezorro]

dallas/houston could be slotted into a category of "desperately need roster balance" (and guards specifically, which we have a surplus of!)

[Sinistar6]

This season is very interesting to me as it goes against the traditional thought process of superstar/s+surrounding supporting cast. This team seems to be in the mold of BD’s Florida teams of just a lot of talent split throughout 10 or so guys. Will it break down in the half court and crunch time without an alpha? Will Giddey or Briz (or both!) become an alpha? Only time will tell but sure has been fun so far