Trade Derrick Rose

[Red Larrivee]

More than decent is not good enough at the NBA level. You want to be an elite team you need to be able to run or do something at a high level. You need something you can say we do as good as any of the top teams in the league.

Also I said this before. To me the picknroll is a PG play. The big that you run it with is nice but its sometimes not even important. Chris Paul could run pnr with Tyson Chandler all day because Paul will always make the correct read and make the right play.

Then explain why he can't run the same play with Okafor.

The pick and roll game is a 2-way street. If you don't have the right passer, you can't do it. If you don't have a good weapon on the roll, you can't do it.

[umfan83]

People are stupid. Rose hasn't proven he's a superstar, and hasn't proven he's a bust. It's way too early to know for sure either way. People point to other players making the leap at similar stages of their careers but the thing is, everyone is different. Everyone has a certain point where things click. Derrick Rose gets it...he's a gym rat from what we hear, he's dedicated to improving his game, he's humble, he's a team guy. All people want to do is rip on him for being passive. He knows he needs to get more aggressive and sometimes things take time. In this world we live in, fans want things now and can't handle things developing slowly than people want it. This season is a wash anyways, so chill out and watch him figure things out and improve.

You can go ahead and trade him but no one is going to trade an under 28 franchise player for him. Why trade for potential when you already have the finished product. The best move for the Bulls is to keep him and do everything possible to help him become a player that proves his potential. And Derrick Rose has potential. Anyone who doesn't see it is a complete moron. I agree not all players reach their potential, but looking at the intangibles Rose has, and the reasons why players don't hit their potentials, don't you think Derrick is a pretty safe bet?

So get over your impatience, watch Derrick Rose try to improve every game and let the chips fall where they may. The season is a wash, we are playing for two things, 1) to make our team as attractive as possible for FAs, and 2) make Derrick Rose into a superstar. And guess what? Those 2 objectives are closely related. So once this teams makes a failed but honest effort to compete, they will have to switch gears and make the season meaningful, aka taking the focus off the players who aren't long term answers and moving the focus to players like Derrick Rose.

[bullybullz]

People are stupid. Rose hasn't proven he's a superstar, and hasn't proven he's a bust. It's way too early to know for sure either way. People point to other players making the leap at similar stages of their careers but the thing is, everyone is different. Everyone has a certain point where things click. Derrick Rose gets it...he's a gym rat from what we hear, he's dedicated to improving his game, he's humble, he's a team guy. All people want to do is rip on him for being passive. He knows he needs to get more aggressive and sometimes things take time. In this world we live in, fans want things now and can't handle things developing slowly than people want it. This season is a wash anyways, so chill out and watch him figure things out and improve.

You can go ahead and trade him but no one is going to trade an under 28 franchise player for him. Why trade for potential when you already have the finished product. The best move for the Bulls is to keep him and do everything possible to help him become a player that proves his potential. And Derrick Rose has potential. Anyone who doesn't see it is a complete moron. I agree not all players reach their potential, but looking at the intangibles Rose has, and the reasons why players don't hit their potentials, don't you think Derrick is a pretty safe bet?

So get over your impatience, watch Derrick Rose try to improve every game and let the chips fall where they may. The season is a wash, we are playing for two things, 1) to make our team as attractive as possible for FAs, and 2) make Derrick Rose into a superstar. And guess what? Those 2 objectives are closely related. So once this teams makes a failed but honest effort to compete, they will have to switch gears and make the season meaningful, aka taking the focus off the players who aren't long term answers and moving the focus to players like Derrick Rose.

Nice post. I completely agree except the last paragraph.

[DASMACKDOWN]

These threads are really crazy in so many ways.. I hate losing because we see some many trashy threads and over reactions.

I would bet that if we had Realgm back in the dynasty years, people here would have been balling to tears and saying we suck when we lost 2 in a row during the 72-10 season. Stop being so dramatic.

[nitetrain8603]

I'm just going to go ahead and agree with the threadstarter. I'm not saying to trade him for crap. I will say, he needs to be traded for some high quality parts. And yes, Rose's lack of aggressiveness, lack of even good floor vision, and pressing needs for more than one player make me want to make such a deal.

[bullybullz]

I'm just going to go ahead and agree with the threadstarter. I'm not saying to trade him for crap. I will say, he needs to be traded for some high quality parts. And yes, Rose's lack of aggressiveness, lack of even good floor vision, and pressing needs for more than one player make me want to make such a deal.

Who are these "parts" you speak of? Give us some names. Remember a trade cannot happen if the other team is not willing to accept.

[j-smooth]

These threads are really crazy in so many ways.. I hate losing because we see some many trashy threads and over reactions.

I would bet that if we had Realgm back in the dynasty years, people here would have been balling to tears and saying we suck when we lost 2 in a row during the 72-10 season. Stop being so dramatic.

This just proves that Chicago is a HUGE basketball town; that there are so many dedicated Bulls/Rose fans out there. It makes for some good reading too.

[nitetrain8603]

I'm just going to go ahead and agree with the threadstarter. I'm not saying to trade him for crap. I will say, he needs to be traded for some high quality parts. And yes, Rose's lack of aggressiveness, lack of even good floor vision, and pressing needs for more than one player make me want to make such a deal.

Who are these "parts" you speak of? Give us some names. Remember a trade cannot happen if the other team is not willing to accept.

I'd do a DeRozan + Bosh trade for starters. I'd be more than happy to trade for Mayo personally. I'd be more than happy to possibly try to trade him for Brandon Jennings. If the Nuggets never got Billups, I would've traded him and Deng for Carmelo. There are a ton of players I would trade Rose for, and some of them we would have to package a slight bit more, and some of them, we would get more quality in return. Of course I can't say who because I'm not an official scout or GM, so I can't scour to see what's out there.

With that said, it works both ways. So many people stated we could replace Ben Gordon easily, without a problem. But no one ever gave realistic names. I feel with Rose, people still think he has true superstar ability. I personally, don't feel this way, but he has high enough potential and is definitely young enough to get you a nice hauling.

[bullybullz]

I'm just going to go ahead and agree with the threadstarter. I'm not saying to trade him for crap. I will say, he needs to be traded for some high quality parts. And yes, Rose's lack of aggressiveness, lack of even good floor vision, and pressing needs for more than one player make me want to make such a deal.

Who are these "parts" you speak of? Give us some names. Remember a trade cannot happen if the other team is not willing to accept.

I'd do a DeRozan + Bosh trade for starters. I'd be more than happy to trade for Mayo personally. I'd be more than happy to possibly try to trade him for Brandon Jennings. If the Nuggets never got Billups, I would've traded him and Deng for Carmelo. There are a ton of players I would trade Rose for, and some of them we would have to package a slight bit more, and some of them, we would get more quality in return. Of course I can't say who because I'm not an official scout or GM, so I can't scour to see what's out there.

With that said, it works both ways. So many people stated we could replace Ben Gordon easily, without a problem. But no one ever gave realistic names. I feel with Rose, people still think he has true superstar ability. I personally, don't feel this way, but he has high enough potential and is definitely young enough to get you a nice hauling.

I just don't see other teams willing to accept those deals. Yet. In time things may change but at this moment I just don't see other teams saying "Yes" to those deals.


Regarding "he who shall not be named" this is how to make up his 20 points. If everyone is healthy:

Salmons-1 more PPG
Hinrich-2 more PPG
Rose-3 more PPG
Thomas-2 more PPG
Gibson/Johnson a combined 5 PPG
Miller- 1 more PPG
Deng get's 18 a game
Noah-3 more PPG
Pargo(If he is in the rotation, hope not) 3 PPG

Add all that up and you get a bit more than 20 PPG not counting Deng. Along with more backcourt height/rebounding/ball movement/defense. WIth Thomas and Hinrich out though all this goes out the window as guys like freaking Lindsey Hunter and Pargo playing 20 mins chucking as many shots as he possibly can. No depth right now whether it be frontcourt or backcourt.

If anything this proves how valuable Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas are this season.

[sdeezy]

I'm just going to go ahead and agree with the threadstarter. I'm not saying to trade him for crap. I will say, he needs to be traded for some high quality parts. And yes, Rose's lack of aggressiveness, lack of even good floor vision, and pressing needs for more than one player make me want to make such a deal.

Who are these "parts" you speak of? Give us some names. Remember a trade cannot happen if the other team is not willing to accept.

I'd do a DeRozan + Bosh trade for starters. I'd be more than happy to trade for Mayo personally. I'd be more than happy to possibly try to trade him for Brandon Jennings. If the Nuggets never got Billups, I would've traded him and Deng for Carmelo. There are a ton of players I would trade Rose for, and some of them we would have to package a slight bit more, and some of them, we would get more quality in return. Of course I can't say who because I'm not an official scout or GM, so I can't scour to see what's out there.

With that said, it works both ways. So many people stated we could replace Ben Gordon easily, without a problem. But no one ever gave realistic names. I feel with Rose, people still think he has true superstar ability. I personally, don't feel this way, but he has high enough potential and is definitely young enough to get you a nice hauling.

Melo, Bosh, Durant etc are top 10 caliber players..those guys dont get traded..in the unlikely event that guys like that ever get on the block, yes you can trade Rose or at least think long and hard about it. No issue with that but Jennings and Mayo? have u seen those 2 play lately? they have been as bad if not worse than Rose has been. Jennings hasnt cracked 42% FG in like 7 straight games and he is throwing up a looot of bricks. Mayo has been pretty unimpressive himself. Trading Rose for any of those guys would be a lateral move at best. Dude is still 21 yrs old and has as much talent if not more than some of these other guys. Surround him with good pieces and see what you have with him before you look to move him. Dude is one year removed from a very good ROY season, dont you think you at least owe it to him to give him another year before you bail?

[BJ43]

Regarding "he who shall not be named" this is how to make up his 20 points. If everyone is healthy:

Salmons-1 more PPG
Hinrich-2 more PPG
Rose-3 more PPG
Thomas-2 more PPG
Gibson/Johnson a combined 5 PPG
Miller- 1 more PPG
Deng get's 18 a game
Noah-3 more PPG
Pargo(If he is in the rotation, hope not) 3 PPG

Add all that up and you get a bit more than 20 PPG not counting Deng. Along with more backcourt height/rebounding/ball movement/defense.

Totally, and if the Cavs lose Lebron next season, they can replace his production, all they need is for the following

Z - 6 more pts
Varajeo - 4 more pts
West - 4 more pts
Williams - 8 more pts
Hickson - 3 more pts
Parker - 3 more pts

* Each of them would need to also up their assists and rebounding numbers by at least one and there you have it, production replaced AND they saved having to pay for a max contract for the dancing queen.

[alucryts]

I'm just going to go ahead and agree with the threadstarter. I'm not saying to trade him for crap. I will say, he needs to be traded for some high quality parts. And yes, Rose's lack of aggressiveness, lack of even good floor vision, and pressing needs for more than one player make me want to make such a deal.

Who are these "parts" you speak of? Give us some names. Remember a trade cannot happen if the other team is not willing to accept.

I'd do a DeRozan + Bosh trade for starters. I'd be more than happy to trade for Mayo personally. I'd be more than happy to possibly try to trade him for Brandon Jennings. If the Nuggets never got Billups, I would've traded him and Deng for Carmelo. There are a ton of players I would trade Rose for, and some of them we would have to package a slight bit more, and some of them, we would get more quality in return. Of course I can't say who because I'm not an official scout or GM, so I can't scour to see what's out there.

With that said, it works both ways. So many people stated we could replace Ben Gordon easily, without a problem. But no one ever gave realistic names. I feel with Rose, people still think he has true superstar ability. I personally, don't feel this way, but he has high enough potential and is definitely young enough to get you a nice hauling.

bosh is only worth it if we have rose in my opinion, he needs someone with him to truly make a dominating offense.

jennings, no because he has proven less and shown more weaknesses than derrick. also, brandon is a very small point guard at 6-1 169 lbs. one thing that makes derrick special is that he can be interchanged between shooting guard and point guard because of his size and scoring ability. This is why he is always compared to dwyane wade. derrick and dwyane have very similar size and skill sets. the difference is that derrick hasn't yet actually turned the ability into production. what will hold him back is if he continues to try to be a pure point guard. whether that is vinny making him a pure point guard or derrick trying to be a point guard, he has to take on a combo guards mentality and play style.

if we could get carmelo, that wouldn't be a bad idea. but overall:

lebron
kobe (would have to think about it only for the reason of him beginning to get old and how long it would take to build around him)
carmelo
cp3
dwill
dwight howard

these are the players I trade derrick for. NONE of them are possible to obtain through a trade. therefore you keep derrick and develop him.

edit: losing ben gordon allows us to get 2010 FA. if we get one he has been replaced

[bullybullz]

Regarding "he who shall not be named" this is how to make up his 20 points. If everyone is healthy:

Salmons-1 more PPG
Hinrich-2 more PPG
Rose-3 more PPG
Thomas-2 more PPG
Gibson/Johnson a combined 5 PPG
Miller- 1 more PPG
Deng get's 18 a game
Noah-3 more PPG
Pargo(If he is in the rotation, hope not) 3 PPG

Add all that up and you get a bit more than 20 PPG not counting Deng. Along with more backcourt height/rebounding/ball movement/defense.

Totally, and if the Cavs lose Lebron next season, they can replace his production, all they need is for the following

Z - 6 more pts
Varajeo - 4 more pts
West - 4 more pts
Williams - 8 more pts
Hickson - 3 more pts
Parker - 3 more pts

* Each of them would need to also up their assists and rebounding numbers by at least one and there you have it, production replaced AND they saved having to pay for a max contract for the dancing queen.

Z is an expiring who probably won't return to Cleveland next season. You honestly see Varejao scoring 4 more points a game along wih Williams 8 more points a game? Get real man. Are you also comparing "he who shall not be named" with LeBron James? SMH

[alucryts]

Regarding "he who shall not be named" this is how to make up his 20 points. If everyone is healthy:

Salmons-1 more PPG
Hinrich-2 more PPG
Rose-3 more PPG
Thomas-2 more PPG
Gibson/Johnson a combined 5 PPG
Miller- 1 more PPG
Deng get's 18 a game
Noah-3 more PPG
Pargo(If he is in the rotation, hope not) 3 PPG

Add all that up and you get a bit more than 20 PPG not counting Deng. Along with more backcourt height/rebounding/ball movement/defense.

Totally, and if the Cavs lose Lebron next season, they can replace his production, all they need is for the following

Z - 6 more pts
Varajeo - 4 more pts
West - 4 more pts
Williams - 8 more pts
Hickson - 3 more pts
Parker - 3 more pts

* Each of them would need to also up their assists and rebounding numbers by at least one and there you have it, production replaced AND they saved having to pay for a max contract for the dancing queen.

the difference is bullybullz puts down very reasonable achievements of 1-3 ppg. the flaw in it is not everybody improves and regressions have to be considered.

[bullybullz]

Regarding "he who shall not be named" this is how to make up his 20 points. If everyone is healthy:

Salmons-1 more PPG
Hinrich-2 more PPG
Rose-3 more PPG
Thomas-2 more PPG
Gibson/Johnson a combined 5 PPG
Miller- 1 more PPG
Deng get's 18 a game
Noah-3 more PPG
Pargo(If he is in the rotation, hope not) 3 PPG

Add all that up and you get a bit more than 20 PPG not counting Deng. Along with more backcourt height/rebounding/ball movement/defense.

Totally, and if the Cavs lose Lebron next season, they can replace his production, all they need is for the following

Z - 6 more pts
Varajeo - 4 more pts
West - 4 more pts
Williams - 8 more pts
Hickson - 3 more pts
Parker - 3 more pts

* Each of them would need to also up their assists and rebounding numbers by at least one and there you have it, production replaced AND they saved having to pay for a max contract for the dancing queen.

the difference is bullybullz puts down very reasonable achievements of 1-3 ppg. the flaw in it is not everybody improves and regressions have to be considered.

Even if you consider regressions let's say a combined 6-12 points. That's still not counting Deng's 18 a game.

[Ajosu]

edit: losing ben gordon allows us to get 2010 FA. if we get one he has been replaced

No, he hasn't. We could have had both.

I don't mean to keep repeating myself, but as long as this stuff keeps getting said, I might as well pipe in

[BJ43]

Z is an expiring who probably won't return to Cleveland next season. You honestly see Varejao scoring 4 more points a game along wih Williams 8 more points a game? Get real man. Are you also comparing "he who shall not be named" with LeBron James? SMH

Actually I was just making fun of you for your little explanation on how we can replace Gordons points by listing the scrubs on this team and assigning each one additional points that they would need to add, like every player suddenly improving their ppg is achievable

1, 2 even maybe 3 players might up their scoring but hey why don't we expect the whole team to suddenly improve their scoring output because with Gordon and his 45% shooting gone we can get more shots for Salmons and Hinrich who shoot what % again?

[alucryts]

edit: losing ben gordon allows us to get 2010 FA. if we get one he has been replaced

No, he hasn't. We could have had both.

I don't mean to keep repeating myself, but as long as this stuff keeps getting said, I might as well pipe in

? how could we afford a max free agent and add $11 million dollar ish per year ben gordons contract? if im missing something please tell me

[alucryts]

Z is an expiring who probably won't return to Cleveland next season. You honestly see Varejao scoring 4 more points a game along wih Williams 8 more points a game? Get real man. Are you also comparing "he who shall not be named" with LeBron James? SMH

Actually I was just making fun of you for your little explanation on how we can replace Gordons points by listing the scrubs on this team and assigning each one additional points that they would need to add, like every player suddenly improving their ppg is achievable

1, 2 even maybe 3 players might up their scoring but hey why don't we expect the whole team to suddenly improve their scoring output because with Gordon and his 45% shooting gone we can get more shots for Salmons and Hinrich who shoot what % again?

i think the argument of deng replacing most of it is more reasonable

[Ajosu]

edit: losing ben gordon allows us to get 2010 FA. if we get one he has been replaced

No, he hasn't. We could have had both.

I don't mean to keep repeating myself, but as long as this stuff keeps getting said, I might as well pipe in

? how could we afford a max free agent and add $11 million dollar ish per year ben gordons contract? if im missing something please tell me

Move Hinrich for expirings. Not sign Pargo.