The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

[DanTown8587]

The trade will probably look like this

Gibson, Butler, Boozer, 16 and 19 for Kevin Love and Corey Brewer. ( Minny might make us take on one more deal)

We'd have Rose, Corey Brewer, Love and Noah starting. We'll have Dunleavy, Snell and Smith off the bench. We'll have the MLE to land a starting wing and the BPE to land a back up PG or PF. We'll also have the non guarantees to pull off a trade with.

And we'd still have Mirotic for either this or next season.

In this scenario, you're trading Mirotic for a wing player seeing as there is so few minutes available at the 4/5 with Love/Noah and Mirotic isn't really able to play the 3.

[DanTown8587]

Not saying im all for the trade but Jimmy Butler shouldnt keep you from getting Love or Melo.

i hate this line of argument. it's like people who determine how much something is worth to them on ebay, put in a bid at that amount, then up it at the last second when someone outbids them. they think they've "won" the auction, but really they've just overpaid more than the person they were bidding against would have

"eh, what's a few more bucks" is not sound reasoning

Except when the difference is between having something and not having something. Everyone agrees that you pay the absolute lowest price for Kevin Love you can (or any player) but you cannot make worse players NOT available in a trade for better ones.

The Bulls would be significantly better trading three-four players and getting Kevin Love. The NBA is a sport built entirely on quality, not quantity.

[bullslas]

Any chance of getting Martin? I'm guessing not really. I'm not a fan of Brewer, but if we have to, then I'll take him as a bench guy.

If we can get Martin, that solves SG, then we can bring back Deng, (not a big fan, but I think he realizes this is home), Noah, Love, Deng, Martin and Rose, with a bench of Brewer, Mirotic, DJ and another big.. Dreams dreams dreams.. i know...

[DanTown8587]

The fact Saunders became the coach tells me that a lot of coaches weren't really sure that Love would stay.

[dice]

Not saying im all for the trade but Jimmy Butler shouldnt keep you from getting Love or Melo.

i hate this line of argument. it's like people who determine how much something is worth to them on ebay, put in a bid at that amount, then up it at the last second when someone outbids them. they think they've "won" the auction, but really they've just overpaid more than the person they were bidding against would have

"eh, what's a few more bucks" is not sound reasoning

Except when the difference is between having something and not having something. Everyone agrees that you pay the absolute lowest price for Kevin Love you can (or any player) but you cannot make worse players NOT available in a trade for better ones.

The Bulls would be significantly better trading three-four players and getting Kevin Love. The NBA is a sport built entirely on quality, not quantity.

this implies that guys like taj, butler, dunleavy, mirotic, etc are not quality

why not trade five or six players for love as long as they're not as good as he is? why not the entire roster except rose and noah and throw in mirotic and all our picks? it's unlikely any of them will be as good as kevin love, right?

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

The trade will probably look like this

Gibson, Butler, Boozer, 16 and 19 for Kevin Love and Corey Brewer. ( Minny might make us take on one more deal)

We'd have Rose, Corey Brewer, Love and Noah starting. We'll have Dunleavy, Snell and Smith off the bench. We'll have the MLE to land a starting wing and the BPE to land a back up PG or PF. We'll also have the non guarantees to pull off a trade with.

And we'd still have Mirotic for either this or next season.

In this scenario, you're trading Mirotic for a wing player seeing as there is so few minutes available at the 4/5 with Love/Noah and Mirotic isn't really able to play the 3.

Man that is A LOT for Love. I'd much rather just go after Melo. The end product looks better too albeit Love will be a better asset cuz hes younger.

[Chitownbulls]

I think Flip taking over means love could be traded for a nice young talented draft pick. Got him back on the bench.

Also....if we just stay where we are at, boozer an Dunleavy come off the books next year, couldn't we just sign Love outright and keep pieces? I think it's going to take LA or the Warriors for Love to really resign there.

I'm also not sure what Mirotic could land you? Hasn't played in the league and I think there's only a couple teams he would actually sign with.

[bad knees]

The Bulls going this hard after Love tells me that they really believe that Derrick is going to return to all-star status. We are going to need someone who can reliably get his shot at the end of games and in the playoffs. If Love is coming, then Melo is not, and sole guy for this role would be Derrick.

[DanTown8587]

Except when the difference is between having something and not having something. Everyone agrees that you pay the absolute lowest price for Kevin Love you can (or any player) but you cannot make worse players NOT available in a trade for better ones.

The Bulls would be significantly better trading three-four players and getting Kevin Love. The NBA is a sport built entirely on quality, not quantity.

this implies that guys like taj, butler, dunleavy, mirotic, etc are not quality

why not trade five or six players for love as long as they're not as good as he is? why not the entire roster except rose and noah and throw in mirotic and all our picks? it's unlikely any of them will be as good as kevin love, right?

Because they're not quality compared to Kevin Love. No one you just listed is a top 15 player at their position and if you want to have that debate on Taj, you'd be wrong. Kevin Love is a top 3 PF and top 15 player in the league. He allows you to build a more balanced roster with him.

I don't think people get that a Bulls team without Love or Anthony is a terrible way to build a NBA team. It's incredibly limited in how it can improve while also having major holes needed for a championship caliber team.

[dice]

Except when the difference is between having something and not having something. Everyone agrees that you pay the absolute lowest price for Kevin Love you can (or any player) but you cannot make worse players NOT available in a trade for better ones.

The Bulls would be significantly better trading three-four players and getting Kevin Love. The NBA is a sport built entirely on quality, not quantity.

this implies that guys like taj, butler, dunleavy, mirotic, etc are not quality

why not trade five or six players for love as long as they're not as good as he is? why not the entire roster except rose and noah and throw in mirotic and all our picks? it's unlikely any of them will be as good as kevin love, right?

Because they're not quality compared to Kevin Love. No one you just listed is a top 15 player at their position and if you want to have that debate on Taj, you'd be wrong. Kevin Love is a top 3 PF and top 15 player in the league. He allows you to build a more balanced roster with him.

I don't think people get that a Bulls team without Love or Anthony is a terrible way to build a NBA team. It's incredibly limited in how it can improve while also having major holes needed for a championship caliber team.

winning in the nba these days is built on value contracts. durant in OKC. lebron in miami. paul george in indy. a variety of players in san antonio (both rookie deals and vets). it is not built on guys like melo. and the jury is out on kevin love. why trade an abundance of the thing that leads to winning in this league for one of those guys? it's simply wrong-headed

[bullslas]

i hate this line of argument. it's like people who determine how much something is worth to them on ebay, put in a bid at that amount, then up it at the last second when someone outbids them. they think they've "won" the auction, but really they've just overpaid more than the person they were bidding against would have

"eh, what's a few more bucks" is not sound reasoning

Except when the difference is between having something and not having something. Everyone agrees that you pay the absolute lowest price for Kevin Love you can (or any player) but you cannot make worse players NOT available in a trade for better ones.

The Bulls would be significantly better trading three-four players and getting Kevin Love. The NBA is a sport built entirely on quality, not quantity.

this implies that guys like taj, butler, dunleavy, mirotic, etc are not quality

why not trade five or six players for love as long as they're not as good as he is? why not the entire roster except rose and noah and throw in mirotic and all our picks? it's unlikely any of them will be as good as kevin love, right?

So you want quantity over quality? The regualar season is about quantity but theplayoffs are all about quality and stars. None of those players you listed are stars. This league is built around Stars not 3 average players. You talk about Miami, it's not about 3 good contracts, it's about 3 All Stars.. Paul George, not a fan, but he's an All Star. Gibson, Butler, MDJ are replaceable.. I don't really know what we have in Mirotic.... A team of Noah, he can stay low instead of hangin around the perimeter, Love, a great shooter who spreads the floor for Rose, and can get his own shot and a fantastic rebounder, (which Taj is not). Noah, Love would work great together. Bring another shooter to play SF or SG and you have a championship contending team as Love is also young... Taj and Butler starting are not a contender, great guys, awesome teamates, but not contending..

[DanTown8587]

winning in the nba these days is built on value contracts. durant in OKC. lebron in miami. paul george in indy. a variety of players in san antonio (both rookie deals and vets). it is not built on guys like melo. and the jury is out on kevin love. why trade an abundance of the thing that leads to winning in this league for one of those guys? it's simply wrong-headed

The value that most teams win in on is a max player that is worth well more than what they're getting paid.

Hell, the Raptors have zero bad contracts yet they couldn't get out of the first round, with HC, against an old team missing their starting C.

Again, this roster is terribly balanced. There is nothing wrong with having a Jimmy Butler, or Taj Gibson, or Joakim Noah in a starting lineup. There is an incredible burden placed on guys 1-2 if you start those three guys.

Also, Kevin Love IS a value contract in the same way that the guys you just described are. While he isn't a defender, he's an excellent scorer and makes Derrick and others better by being on the floor.

[Rerisen]

Taj and Love complement each other well.
If they want to keep Mirotic for Melo, that's a different way of looking at it or keeping Mirotic for a future trade to get a wing player.

Never forget the money angle. The Bulls might not want to pay Taj's 8.5 as a backup once they have Kevin Love manning the position big minutes, more importantly, his huge impending contract.

Mirotic coming along in a year or so will be much cheaper for several years.

[dice]

You talk about Miami, it's not about 3 good contracts, it's about 3 All Stars..

nope. it's about lebron james and a bunch of guys who are not overpaid. the only reason lebron didn't win in cleveland is because they had bad contracts

Gibson, Butler, MDJ are replaceable

not at the money they're making. taj excepted, perhaps

Taj and Butler starting are not a contender, great guys, awesome teamates, but not contending..

are you serious? we had bogans, deng and boozer starting and led the league in wins. remember that?

[yifsuibfe1]

You talk about Miami, it's not about 3 good contracts, it's about 3 All Stars..

nope. it's about lebron james and a bunch of guys who are not overpaid. the only reason lebron didn't win in cleveland is because they had bad contracts

Gibson, Butler, MDJ are replaceable

not at the money they're making. taj excepted, perhaps

Taj and Butler starting are not a contender, great guys, awesome teamates, but not contending..

are you serious? we had bogans, deng and boozer starting and led the league in wins. remember that?

I remember getting smoked by a star-driven team in the playoffs

[dice]

winning in the nba these days is built on value contracts. durant in OKC. lebron in miami. paul george in indy. a variety of players in san antonio (both rookie deals and vets). it is not built on guys like melo. and the jury is out on kevin love. why trade an abundance of the thing that leads to winning in this league for one of those guys? it's simply wrong-headed

The value that most teams win in on is a max player that is worth well more than what they're getting paid.

you got it. which melo is certainly not and love is probably not

Hell, the Raptors have zero bad contracts yet they couldn't get out of the first round, with HC, against an old team missing their starting C.

not what i said. i didn't say zero bad contracts. i said GOOD contracts. but toronto was an above average team with no superstars. kinda makes my point

Also, Kevin Love IS a value contract in the same way that the guys you just described are

debatable. but we KNOW jimmy and draft picks are value contracts. and mirotic might very well be as well. taj as a starter might very well be too

[dice]

You talk about Miami, it's not about 3 good contracts, it's about 3 All Stars..

nope. it's about lebron james and a bunch of guys who are not overpaid. the only reason lebron didn't win in cleveland is because they had bad contracts

Gibson, Butler, MDJ are replaceable

not at the money they're making. taj excepted, perhaps

Taj and Butler starting are not a contender, great guys, awesome teamates, but not contending..

are you serious? we had bogans, deng and boozer starting and led the league in wins. remember that?

I remember getting smoked by a star-driven team in the playoffs

lebron james on a value contract. d wade might have been a value contract at that time as well

and we didn't get smoked

[Pnjguy]

Taj and Love complement each other well.
If they want to keep Mirotic for Melo, that's a different way of looking at it or keeping Mirotic for a future trade to get a wing player.

Never forget the money angle. The Bulls want not want to pay Taj's 8.5 as a backup once they have Kevin Love manning the position big minutes, more importantly, his huge impending contract.

Mirotic coming along in a year or so will be much cheaper for several years.

Gibson backing up both Love (PF) and Noah (C) at 30 minutes a night, i think 8.5 million is good value there. Noah plays 30 minutes, Gibson plays 30 minutes, Love plays 32, Smith plays 4.

[Bulls_Fan]

Minn has the 12th pick in the draft. I doubt they would want both our picks @ 16 and 19. No team wants to bring in 3 rookies no matter how bad you are and how much rebuilding you are doing.

A package of 16th, Kings PIck, Bulls future 1st, Taj, Boozer, Mirotic for Love and whatever they want to attach to the deal would be heaven. If they insist on Jimmy Butler (which they wouldn't) he would go in the deal. Jimmy is up for an extension, plus Ricky Rubio already can't shoot to save his life. Are you going to have a backcourt of Jimmy and Ricky, two guys who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat?

I'd love to get Kevin Martin but that would be too good to be true.

Having a trio of Noah, Love, Rose is a great frame for a roster. The rest is easy IMO. Just fill in the gaps w/ players. Paxson has always shown he can get role players.

Paxson has never been able to land that key player. Let's hope we don't lose out again. Let them have anyone they want except Noah/Rose and lets see what happens.

[Red Larrivee]

Is this another one of those "no star is worth trading for besides LeBron or Durant" conversations?

Even if you don't think Love or Anthony are undoubtedly worth maximum contracts, they are undoubtedly the best player in their future transactions. The NBA will always be about who has the best top end quality. Building a team around a bunch of solid, non star players who play up to their contracts doesn't win. That's essentially what Denver and Atlanta have been recently.

Chicago isn't winning anything with a Rose, Gibson, Noah, Butler nucleus. That's not the type of quality that wins a championship.

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