Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

[HomoSapien]

If the Bulls really only care about money, why sign Felicio to such a large contract? Why put yourself in a position where you are paying 3 coaches at the same time? That argument doesn't add up.

Several reasons:

1.) They are bad at their jobs.

2.) When Felicio was signed to that contract they thought he would develop and it would be an under-market value. I believe that was the same offseason that Allen Crabbe signed a massive contract that was more than double Felicio's yearly salary.

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This is the same front-office that tampered to sign Thaddeus Young the first minute of free-agency. They have no idea what they're doing, and their terrible transactions support that.

[Mech Engineer]

Hits:
Duhon, Asik, Gafford, Gray

Misses:
Bairstow, Murphy, Curry, Zipser

50% is about double the hit rate of the next closest franchise from when I looked which as I noted was about 3 years ago.

He also drafted Mario Austin and Tommy Smith, who I believe never played for the Bulls other than maybe preseason or summer. Also not sure how Aaron Gray was a hit. Its definitely not a 50% hit rate.

Not to mention, Aaron Gray was a hit?

He was HugaBull, but here are his Bulls stats:

11.0 mpg
4.3 ppg
3.2 rpg
2.1 fpg (fouls)

And nothing else over the digit "number 1."

You barely have to drive a little north to Milwaukee to find some 2nd picks who actually had star ceiling (Brogdon, Redd going way back) or were productive role-players (Ilyasova, Leuer, Mouete, Meeks, Sessions, Gadzuric).

Go way back for Paxson, it's Duhon and nobody else.

Again, I'm not confusing anything here. I realize the odds and ceilings of 2nd round picks are super low. But... they have clearly proven useful one way or another for many good teams. I thought it was a slap in the face that a team that "drafts well" sold their 38th pick to a dynasty contender deep in luxury tax for cash considerations.

At least gamble on an international player, or trade for a decent bench player, or a future 2nd. There is NO defense for just selling it for cash considerations. None at all. The team wasn't even in the luxury tax. It was total BS.

The bottom line is many teams have had really impactful players in the 2nd round which the great drafter has never found one who is impactful like Jokic, Brogdon, Harrell, Parsons, Tucker, Patty Mills, Bogdanovic, etc....

[HomoSapien]

Jordan Bell was released. Any of his backers around?

They all seem to be too occupied at the moment moving the goalposts....

Is this directed at me? Hopefully it isn't, because my goal posts haven't moved an inch.

No one is claiming to be right about Bell, and undrafted players having success too is all great and good, but it's so irrelevant to this issue. There's no reason the Bulls can't draft someone with their pick + sign an undrafted rookie. By selling their pick, they eliminated one easy avenue towards adding talent. That's the criticism.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1582004&p=56784845&hilit=Bell#p56784845

[HomoSapien]

From a practical perspective, the guy everyone complaining about missing out on was a bust. He was worthless. They lost no value with this move. With the power of hindsight this move was not a mistake.

You cannot say they lost no value by looking at the player several years later and ignore what happened in the prior years. Jordan Bell was a decent player for Steve Kerr at times, He was a rotation player, even got a few starts, and got some playing time in the finals. Now, he did not contribute much in statistics, but at least he was a live body to throw out there and grab some rebounds. That itself is more valuable than having a full time bench warmer, or extra cash, or having 32m tied up in someone like Felicio. Kerr is one of the top coaches in the league and utilized him to the best of his abilities. He may have fallen off afterwards, but his value was apparent in the last couple years.

Wait, wait, wait. Doug, you just listed Aaron Gray as a hit, but are listing Jordan Bell as a bust. How? How is Aaron Gray a hit, but Bell is a bust?

[HomoSapien]

The bottom line is many teams have had really impactful players in the 2nd round which the great drafter has never found one who is impactful like Jokic, Brogdon, Harrell, Parsons, Tucker, Patty Mills, Bogdanovic, etc....

Not to mention that the 2018 2nd round draft pick he traded resulted in Mitchell Robinson.

[dumbell78]

The bottom line is many teams have had really impactful players in the 2nd round which the great drafter has never found one who is impactful like Jokic, Brogdon, Harrell, Parsons, Tucker, Patty Mills, Bogdanovic, etc....

Not to mention that the 2018 2nd round draft pick he traded resulted in Mitchell Robinson.

Key point there.

Should we just ignore the multiple picks they have traded in recent history? Doug McD alone cost us how many, 5? I have lost track with these guys. But thank God, they hit on Aaron Gray.

[GameBredAPBT]

They are the worst fo in the league along with Michael Jordan (ironically). Worst eyes for talent in the league. Presti his clean up crew cannot come soon enough

[TheStig]

The Bulls decided they didn't like anyone. Their evaluation isn't the same as everyone elses. I never said the correct and only evaluation is that all these guys will be bad. I think any given year, you probably know 10-20% of these guys will pan out. The question is do you have a feeling about one of those guys that makes it worth taking one or doing something else.

The Bulls have historically not taken many, but have something like double the hit rate of the next closest team when taking second rounders which shows that they're extremely selective and only take guys when they project out the guy has a role and value for them.



No one is denying that there can be value in second round picks, but you have varying degrees of confidence of whether you will get any. When you don't feel you will get value, it's reasonable to do something else. That's what the Bulls did.

I'm not saying you have to love it or that it was a stroke of genius. I'm just saying the Bulls clearly didn't like anyone at 38 and so they sold the pick.

Do you think they were in love with some player but sold it anyway?

I don't think they didn't see value in the pick. I think there was someone there they thought was worth a shot. But most importantly, I think they saw dollar signs. There is value in taking a shot in a guy.

If the Bulls really only care about money, why sign Felicio to such a large contract? Why put yourself in a position where you are paying 3 coaches at the same time? That argument doesn't add up.

What 3 coaches are they paying? I count 2. And one is one of the lowest paid in the NBA.

Felecio is a bad contract but they're not paying him a large sum of money. They gave him slightly over the MLE. So barely above average.

Since when does incompetence become a defense for being cheap. They cheap out on a whole bunch of stuff. Look at the HC to start, they have paid amongst the lowest amount of LT since it was created, they are amongst the bottom in total salary while being near the top in revenue, not too mention the assets they sold for cash like Deng, Korver and this pick.

[Dresden]

They are the worst fo in the league along with Michael Jordan (ironically). Worst eyes for talent in the league. Presti his clean up crew cannot come soon enough

Lauri was a very good pick at #7 until this season. Coby is looking like the 3rd best player in his class. Jimmy Butler. Niko Mirotic. Bobby Portis was pretty good for where he was picked. Not to mention Deng, Noah, Hinrich, Gordon, etc., etc. I'd say they've identified some pretty good players during their tenure.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Nets scored 51 points in the 4th quarter vs the Celtics. Nets won in OT, LeVert finished with 51 points(37 in the 4th) in overtime.

[Repeat 3-peat]

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[kulaz3000]

They are the worst fo in the league along with Michael Jordan (ironically). Worst eyes for talent in the league. Presti his clean up crew cannot come soon enough

Lauri was a very good pick at #7 until this season. Coby is looking like the 3rd best player in his class. Jimmy Butler. Niko Mirotic. Bobby Portis was pretty good for where he was picked. Not to mention Deng, Noah, Hinrich, Gordon, etc., etc. I'd say they've identified some pretty good players during their tenure.

You're not wrong. Our front office has indentified and drafted some really solid players all across the draft, if anything, they have a really keen on on high floor players, but regretably not great at high cieling player. Which is why, when these players play really well for the first few seasons, but their holes become more glaring thereafter, we hold on to them too long and we trade them aways when their value is low.

When it comes to these players, we need to indentify sooner, who has high value and potential, keep them around, or if you feel they don't have the long term potential, pull the plug sooner and trade them when their value is high. Now, that is always easier said and done, because you always hope that a player can continue to grow, even with a high floor, but that's why these people get paid the big bucks, to evaluate these players in close quarters and make these difficult decisions.

[dice]

They are the worst fo in the league along with Michael Jordan (ironically). Worst eyes for talent in the league. Presti his clean up crew cannot come soon enough

Lauri was a very good pick at #7 until this season. Coby is looking like the 3rd best player in his class. Jimmy Butler. Niko Mirotic. Bobby Portis was pretty good for where he was picked. Not to mention Deng, Noah, Hinrich, Gordon, etc., etc. I'd say they've identified some pretty good players during their tenure.

they've been terrible since drafting jimmy/niko. lauri's promise is mostly gone. he's certainly not high ceiling at this point. and save his recent hot streak coby has played like a 2nd rounder w/ free reign to shoot

[R3AL1TY]

It's odd that the Pelicans let their guards and Ingram defend LeBron on many possessions and Zion doesn't spend a fair amount of time guarding him.

But Zion is crushing it right now despite not playing for half of the season. He still needs to add a jumper to his game though.

Zion is being handled with kid gloves. We've already seen his impact on the Pelicans and the NBA as a rookie. Let him continue to play and develop. No need to tax him with the knee by putting him on LBJ.

True, but this suggestion of him guarding Lebron isn't for the entire game but key stretches in both halves. It doesn't hurt to test him with bigger challenges as part of his development. But the way the Pelicans defend and play small ball in general may lead to them not getting that 8th seed spot.

[Ice Man]

The Sixers cannot win road games, at all. One explanation could be that even though they have never won anything, they're dogging it until the playoffs. The other explanation is that they aren't much good.

I'm going with the second. An overrated fraud of a team.

[Ice Man]

The Sixers cannot win road games, at all. One explanation could be that even though they have never won anything, they're dogging it until the playoffs. The other explanation is that they aren't much good.

I'm going with the second. An overrated fraud of a team.

[Dresden]

Nets scored 51 points in the 4th quarter vs the Celtics. Nets won in OT, LeVert finished with 51 points(37 in the 4th) in overtime.

Yeah, incredible game. Caris LeVert was just insane. Boston had a 5 point lead with under 20 secs left. Celtics had the ball and a 3 point lead with 6 seconds left and lost. They got tied up on the inbounds play, and then Marcus Smart fouled LaVert on a 3 with .2 seconds left and he made all 3. And it was almost all the Nets second unit that did it, too.

[dice]

The Sixers cannot win road games, at all. One explanation could be that even though they have never won anything, they're dogging it until the playoffs. The other explanation is that they aren't much good.

I'm going with the second. An overrated fraud of a team.

last 2 seasons: .744 home .512 road
this year: .933 home .281 road

so why the shift this season? why would it be fraudulent to both improve at home and get worse on the road?

dynasty warriors (5 seasons): .844 home .727 road .117 differential
dynasty bulls (6 seasons): .882 home .695 road .187 differential

were the dynasty bulls more fraudulent (or less psychologically strong, or however you want to say it) because the differential in their performance home vs road was more pronounced?

[GameBredAPBT]

They are the worst fo in the league along with Michael Jordan (ironically). Worst eyes for talent in the league. Presti his clean up crew cannot come soon enough

Lauri was a very good pick at #7 until this season. Coby is looking like the 3rd best player in his class. Jimmy Butler. Niko Mirotic. Bobby Portis was pretty good for where he was picked. Not to mention Deng, Noah, Hinrich, Gordon, etc., etc. I'd say they've identified some pretty good players during their tenure.

Markkanen has been a complete disaster & there have been reports of him demanding out. How was that a very good pick up until this season? He had a decent rookie year & since then he’s been trending downward at an alarming rate, largely due to their horrendous, despicable coaching staff, and also likely due to their clown shoes medical staff

Who knows where Butler would be without Thibs. He’s the reason Jimmy took off. And thibs entire MO is getting something out of nothing. Jimmy Butler isn’t even on the team anymore, they traded him LoL

Mirotic was a non factor. Not only is he not even in the league anymore, but his tenure with the bulls was a huge disappointment & ended horribly. I don’t see how that was a good pick

They’ve identified average talent as any GM not named michael Jordan is more than capable of doing, and whatever great talent they’ve come across, they’ve done everything within their immediate power to thwart it & either screw it up and/or drive it out of town

[dice]

They are the worst fo in the league along with Michael Jordan (ironically). Worst eyes for talent in the league. Presti his clean up crew cannot come soon enough

Lauri was a very good pick at #7 until this season. Coby is looking like the 3rd best player in his class. Jimmy Butler. Niko Mirotic. Bobby Portis was pretty good for where he was picked. Not to mention Deng, Noah, Hinrich, Gordon, etc., etc. I'd say they've identified some pretty good players during their tenure.

Markkanen has been a complete disaster & there have been reports of him demanding out. How was that a very good pick up until this season? He had a decent rookie year & since then he’s been trending downward at an alarming rate

this...is blatantly false. per 36:

18/9 55%ts
21/10 55%
18/8 56%

basically regressed back to rookie numbers this season. and his defense has marginally improved to somewhat offset his decline in other areas

stagnating is hardly the same thing as "trending downward at an alarming rate"

Who knows where Butler would be without Thibs. He’s the reason Jimmy took off.

he certainly helped jimmy. so did lu. but who's to say where jimmy would be. my guess is that his work ethic is still pretty damn strong had he never met those two guys. it's all speculation

Mirotic was a non factor. Not only is he not even in the league anymore, but his tenure with the bulls was a huge disappointment & ended horribly. I don’t see how that was a good pick

he was at minimum a solid all-around contributor for years. starter caliber. as a #23 pick. most #23 picks don't even make it in the league. undeniably a good pick

They’ve identified average talent as any GM not named michael Jordan is more than capable of doing, and whatever great talent they’ve come across, they’ve done everything within their immediate power to thwart it & either screw it up and/or drive it out of town

if that were true, the bulls would have had no more success than anyone else during the paxson era. and as you well know that is untrue