2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[PlayerUp]

Vassell looks like he can immediately be what Hutchinson hasn't fully lived up to.

Hutch had a low ceiling.

Really? I always thought Hutch had an impressive handle for a guy with his size and athleticism. It’s too bad he’s been injured so much, was hoping he would be a diamond in the rough.

That's because Gar/Pax fed you that BS. Bulls hopefully soon to be retired scout Bollwinkel was involved in the Hutchinson decision and he has a past history of missing on every pick. Had we not taken him at #22, he likely would have slipped to the 2nd Rd. Nothing was really impressive about him other than his volume scoring in a weak conference.

Reality is you could pull someone out of the G League, give him Hutch minutes and he'd do a better job. Add the fact that Hutch can't even stay healthy really no reason to keep this guy around much longer.

[JohnnyTapwater]

I love to see a kid with all the clay in the world begin to mold it into something I saw -

Read on Twitter

[MGB8]

On the Reddish tangent - here's a rookie highlight reel - tell me that he's not a high level ball handler or not athletic

Watch on YouTube

There are also dunk and block videos from his rookie season showing (easy) vertical explosion.
Some people confuse not being a Shawn Marion, Derrick Rose or Vince Carter-esque pogo stick for not being athletic. Is Paul George "not athletic?" Harden? Was Crawford not athletic? Reddish does lack an elite first step (though it's good, but almost hidden because of how much he relies upon his handle / finesse), but this "unathletic notion" is ridiculous.

And, now, the scouting reports:

https://thegamehaus.com/nba/cam-reddish-2019-nba-draft-profile/2019/07/16/

.... While he shouldn’t be the first option to bring the ball up, he can even run the point guard position if a team is in a pinch.... Reddish is a solid ball handler who is capable of creating his own shot, even if last season other players on his team were the ones creating most of the shots. With some opportunity and time at the NBA level, he could develop into a very good offensive player.... His defense was also solid at the college level and has a chance to develop into a strength at the pro level as well. His length helps him defend well, but he also has good quickness to stay in front of dribble penetration.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/cameron-reddish/

… Not elite vision but his handle allows him to make plays for others and himself … Able to bring the ball up even against pressure … An above average athlete. Very fluid and coordinated, doesn’t look out of place at any position 1-4 … Will find open man, comfortable making a pass off the dribble, keeps his head up, likes to draw and kick … Shot selection needs work but he has excellent range on his 3-point shot, already comfortable from NBA range … Quick release. Gets low to the ground with his handle, flexible, has serious moves off the dribble even though he did not always get to showcase them at Duke as the third option behind Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett … Live dribble counters, can stop on a dime and pull up or use size and craft to get all the way … Handle doesn’t slow him down at all, in open court situation, his top speed is good … When feet are set and he goes up with balance he is a terrific shooter …

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/cameron-reddish-scouting-report/

"Gifted athlete"

[cjbulls]

On the Reddish tangent - here's a rookie highlight reel - tell me that he's not a high level ball handler or not athletic

Watch on YouTube

There are also dunk and block videos from his rookie season showing (easy) vertical explosion.
Some people confuse not being a Shawn Marion, Derrick Rose or Vince Carter-esque pogo stick for not being athletic. Is Paul George "not athletic?" Harden? Was Crawford not athletic? Reddish does lack an elite first step (though it's good, but almost hidden because of how much he relies upon his handle / finesse), but this "unathletic notion" is ridiculous.

And, now, the scouting reports:

https://thegamehaus.com/nba/cam-reddish-2019-nba-draft-profile/2019/07/16/

.... While he shouldn’t be the first option to bring the ball up, he can even run the point guard position if a team is in a pinch.... Reddish is a solid ball handler who is capable of creating his own shot, even if last season other players on his team were the ones creating most of the shots. With some opportunity and time at the NBA level, he could develop into a very good offensive player.... His defense was also solid at the college level and has a chance to develop into a strength at the pro level as well. His length helps him defend well, but he also has good quickness to stay in front of dribble penetration.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/cameron-reddish/

… Not elite vision but his handle allows him to make plays for others and himself … Able to bring the ball up even against pressure … An above average athlete. Very fluid and coordinated, doesn’t look out of place at any position 1-4 … Will find open man, comfortable making a pass off the dribble, keeps his head up, likes to draw and kick … Shot selection needs work but he has excellent range on his 3-point shot, already comfortable from NBA range … Quick release. Gets low to the ground with his handle, flexible, has serious moves off the dribble even though he did not always get to showcase them at Duke as the third option behind Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett … Live dribble counters, can stop on a dime and pull up or use size and craft to get all the way … Handle doesn’t slow him down at all, in open court situation, his top speed is good … When feet are set and he goes up with balance he is a terrific shooter …

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/cameron-reddish-scouting-report/

"Gifted athlete"

No no, you don’t understand, his Ortg and win shares are below average in college and his rookie year, so the calculations say he can’t be good.

Great find, although highlight reels can always be a bit unfair.

Cam just needed an opportunity in the right situation. It’s up to him now to get over whatever issues seemed to plague him at Duke. That last month was promising.

[Jvaughn]

Okay, I'm super lost. Are we now arguing that Cam Reddish is worth the 4th pick even though by every statistical category he's been horrible through college and his rookie year? But his youtube highlights say we should ignore that?

[sco]

Hutch had a low ceiling.

Really? I always thought Hutch had an impressive handle for a guy with his size and athleticism. It’s too bad he’s been injured so much, was hoping he would be a diamond in the rough.

That's because Gar/Pax fed you that BS. Bulls hopefully soon to be retired scout Bollwinkel was involved in the Hutchinson decision and he has a past history of missing on every pick. Had we not taken him at #22, he likely would have slipped to the 2nd Rd. Nothing was really impressive about him other than his volume scoring in a weak conference.

Reality is you could pull someone out of the G League, give him Hutch minutes and he'd do a better job. Add the fact that Hutch can't even stay healthy really no reason to keep this guy around much longer.

IDK, I see Hutch, barring injury - which is my big concern...especially since he injured the same shoulder twice, as having NBA starter potential. He really is a very good defender and showed a nice handle for a SF. When he came back last year he showed a big improvement in his ability to finish at the rim/draw fouls. His 3pt shot isn't there, but looks salvageable. Again, IF he can stay healthy, I think he's a guy I'd like to keep to see if we can have him stick around as a reasonably priced, quality back-up SF.

That said, I do think there are a number of G-League guys who have similar potential (ie Mokoka) who just need a chance.

[JohnnyTapwater]

Cam is gonna be good - I was calling it last year -

Fans aren't patient any more and casuals are loud.

[cjbulls]

Okay, I'm super lost. Are we now arguing that Cam Reddish is worth the 4th pick even though by every statistical category he's been horrible through college and his rookie year? But his youtube highlights say we should ignore that?

Nope. Just remembering this board last year saying he shouldn’t even be a FRP and will be washed out of the NBA in the blink of an eye, just because he shot X% in one season.

So a few of us are laughing about how the draft is about more than just numbers. Cam has a good combo of length, athleticism and skill if he can put it all together.

[TheFinishSniper]

Okay, I'm super lost. Are we now arguing that Cam Reddish is worth the 4th pick even though by every statistical category he's been horrible through college and his rookie year? But his youtube highlights say we should ignore that?

Nope. Just remembering this board last year saying he shouldn’t even be a FRP and will be washed out of the NBA in the blink of an eye, just because he shot X% in one season.

So a few of us are laughing about how the draft is about more than just numbers. Cam has a good combo of length, athleticism and skill if he can put it all together.

if he has snell's career it will be magnificent for him.

[SfBull]

A new mock
https://theathletic.com/2128239/2020/10/13/lamelo-ball-over-james-wiseman-at-no-1-in-2020-nba-mock-draft-version-8-0?source=user-shared-article
Avidja still at #4.Hopefully yes.

[PlayerUp]

I love to see a kid with all the clay in the world begin to mold it into something I saw -

Read on Twitter

RJ Hampton and Cole Anthony have the worst advanced stats among potential lottery picks for their 1 season they played.

[PlayerUp]

A new mock
https://theathletic.com/2128239/2020/10/13/lamelo-ball-over-james-wiseman-at-no-1-in-2020-nba-mock-draft-version-8-0?source=user-shared-article
Avidja still at #4.Hopefully yes.

$1 a month. I'm too cheap but what is the mock draft showing?

[PlayerUp]

Cam is gonna be good - I was calling it last year -

Fans aren't patient any more and casuals are loud.

Cam was absolutely horrible in college. What do you expect? There are plenty of cases of players who have the tools but mentally can't progress. In fact statistically players like this turn out more often to be busts.

[PhilLeotardo]

On the Reddish tangent - here's a rookie highlight reel - tell me that he's not a high level ball handler or not athletic

Watch on YouTube

There are also dunk and block videos from his rookie season showing (easy) vertical explosion.
Some people confuse not being a Shawn Marion, Derrick Rose or Vince Carter-esque pogo stick for not being athletic. Is Paul George "not athletic?" Harden? Was Crawford not athletic? Reddish does lack an elite first step (though it's good, but almost hidden because of how much he relies upon his handle / finesse), but this "unathletic notion" is ridiculous.

And, now, the scouting reports:

https://thegamehaus.com/nba/cam-reddish-2019-nba-draft-profile/2019/07/16/

.... While he shouldn’t be the first option to bring the ball up, he can even run the point guard position if a team is in a pinch.... Reddish is a solid ball handler who is capable of creating his own shot, even if last season other players on his team were the ones creating most of the shots. With some opportunity and time at the NBA level, he could develop into a very good offensive player.... His defense was also solid at the college level and has a chance to develop into a strength at the pro level as well. His length helps him defend well, but he also has good quickness to stay in front of dribble penetration.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/cameron-reddish/

… Not elite vision but his handle allows him to make plays for others and himself … Able to bring the ball up even against pressure … An above average athlete. Very fluid and coordinated, doesn’t look out of place at any position 1-4 … Will find open man, comfortable making a pass off the dribble, keeps his head up, likes to draw and kick … Shot selection needs work but he has excellent range on his 3-point shot, already comfortable from NBA range … Quick release. Gets low to the ground with his handle, flexible, has serious moves off the dribble even though he did not always get to showcase them at Duke as the third option behind Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett … Live dribble counters, can stop on a dime and pull up or use size and craft to get all the way … Handle doesn’t slow him down at all, in open court situation, his top speed is good … When feet are set and he goes up with balance he is a terrific shooter …

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/cameron-reddish-scouting-report/

"Gifted athlete"

Lol Paul George is/was an absolute freak, and had way more violent athleticism in transition than Derrick Rose, who barely ever dunked (certainly never dunked in traffic). This can’t be serious. George was one of the better athletes we’ve ever seen at the 3 position in the NBA. Lol @ comparing freaking PG13 to Jamal Crawford & James Harden

[MotownMadness]

A new mock
https://theathletic.com/2128239/2020/10/13/lamelo-ball-over-james-wiseman-at-no-1-in-2020-nba-mock-draft-version-8-0?source=user-shared-article
Avidja still at #4.Hopefully yes.

What's their top 10 look like?

[JohnnyTapwater]

I love to see a kid with all the clay in the world begin to mold it into something I saw -

Read on Twitter

RJ Hampton and Cole Anthony have the worst advanced stats among potential lottery picks for their 1 season they played.

Do me a favor -

Act like I'm not a casual when telling me about a prospect - I can look up stats just like everyone else.

I see something else.

[Jimako10]

Okay, I'm super lost. Are we now arguing that Cam Reddish is worth the 4th pick even though by every statistical category he's been horrible through college and his rookie year? But his youtube highlights say we should ignore that?

He flipped a switch after the new year. Check out his splits from Nov-Dec and then Jan on. He showed solid improvement throughout the year where he now looks like a steal.

[cjbulls]

Okay, I'm super lost. Are we now arguing that Cam Reddish is worth the 4th pick even though by every statistical category he's been horrible through college and his rookie year? But his youtube highlights say we should ignore that?

Nope. Just remembering this board last year saying he shouldn’t even be a FRP and will be washed out of the NBA in the blink of an eye, just because he shot X% in one season.

So a few of us are laughing about how the draft is about more than just numbers. Cam has a good combo of length, athleticism and skill if he can put it all together.

if he has snell's career it will be magnificent for him.

Just in case anyone denied there was some seriously overreacting Cam hate, I present Exhibit A from TheFinishSniper.

[cjbulls]

Cam is gonna be good - I was calling it last year -

Fans aren't patient any more and casuals are loud.

Cam was absolutely horrible in college. What do you expect? There are plenty of cases of players who have the tools but mentally can't progress. In fact statistically players like this turn out more often to be busts.

Most were pointing to the reasons to believe it wasn’t as bad as the statistics indicated (small sample size, unique situation, role transition, performance outside of the games), but those were all shot down in favor of the percentages.

You are right though, Cam has proved little so far. He has shown he’s not the complete bust of a player with no athleticism/skills that people wanted to brand him with. He has only justified why he was worth taking in the top 10.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Cam’s always “looked” the part.

I don’t think anyone denies it, for as good as he looks he should’ve produced better at Duke. He looked bad to start the year and I was anti Cam leading up to the draft, he did finish strong so let’s see. Sample size of him playing well is small but if he puts it all together his potential is high.