Omer Asik and Rockets agree to deal 3 years 25 million

[imagge]

For Teague: $857,000 is base salary.

He will not get that. All First Rounders get the Full 120% of base.

Teague's salary will be $1,028,400 for next season

First of all that's not true I believe Henry for the Grizz did not get the full 120%.... but you can still come in under the old Apron of 74 mil, if Kirk is their man his deal will be 2 yrs and the first year will be a little over 1.2 mil. Again that keeps you under the 74 mil apron but the cap, tax line and apron could all go up.

Dont you remember? Grizz owner did not want to give Henry 120% - and Henry refused to sign.

Later the owner publically said that he misinterpreted the rules - and Henry got the 120%.

Why would any team want to piss off its top draftees by saying they are not worth 120%?????

Bulls have always given it.

OK I just remember the Owner not wanting to give it all but my point is the Bulls can match Omer, still have the Full MLE, and possibly Kirk.

[make a move]

We need a scoring guard, not an overpaid reserve center.

[PistolP]

It would be real close, but it could possibly be done.....the salary cap or the tax line has not been set yet. So let's say the cap is 59 mil with the lux tax at 71 mil which takes the 4 mil apron to 75 mil. Lets' take a look using Sham's numbers:

With 11 player including Omer's QO the Bulls come in at:

$75,964,363

It says $75.9 at the bottom but if you add them up it's $78m

[transplant]

The Bulls are screwed unless they are willing to pay the tax in the future. That's the one sticking point. The other option is finding a team that will shave a year off Boozer's salary, which is preferable to paying the tax.

Would a future 1st as a sweetner make Carlos easier to unload?

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous. I get that everyone is from Missouri in this regard and that it's the "Show Me State," but let's be realistic. According to Sham, the Bulls are currently 2nd in the whole damn NBA in "committed salary" at $310,098,065. They like their current players A LOT, including Asik and Gibson for whom they have very little committed salary.

Does everyone honestly believe that this supposedly overly-deliberate, overly-conservative front office has a plan that calls for them to avoid the LT at all costs. Do you seriously believe that they signed Boozer, extended Noah and didn't think twice about applying the "Rose Rule" to the rule's namesake without any conception of what it meant vis a vis the LT? Really? Do you think that they don't know how to add? Do you think that they make each contract decision independently, without regard to how each fits in the bigger picture? Do you believe that these deliberate and conservative men just "wing it" in some sort of spasmodic fashion?

Pick a lane people, but please try to pick a somewhat reasonable one. They're deliberate and conservative or they're careless and whackyly spontaneous. As for me, I believe that they're realistic and they know that avoiding the LT is a pipe dream.

[BuffaloBull]

The Bulls are screwed unless they are willing to pay the tax in the future. That's the one sticking point. The other option is finding a team that will shave a year off Boozer's salary, which is preferable to paying the tax.

Would a future 1st as a sweetner make Carlos easier to unload?

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous. I get that everyone is from Missouri in this regard and that it's the "Show Me State," but let's be realistic. According to Sham, the Bulls are currently 2nd in the whole damn NBA in "committed salary" at $310,098,065. They like their current players A LOT, including Asik and Gibson for whom they have very little committed salary.

Does everyone honestly believe that this supposedly overly-deliberate, overly-conservative front office has a plan that calls for them to avoid the LT at all costs. Do you seriously believe that they signed Boozer, extended Noah and didn't think twice about applying the "Rose Rule" to the rule's namesake without any conception of what it meant vis a vis the LT? Really? Do you think that they don't know how to add? Do you think that they make each contract decision independently, without regard to how each fits in the bigger picture? Do you believe that these deliberate and conservative men just "wing it" in some sort of spasmodic fashion?

Pick a lane people, but please try to pick a somewhat reasonable one. They're deliberate and conservative or they're careless and whackyly spontaneous. As for me, I believe that they're realistic and they know that avoiding the LT is a pipe dream.

Well said. I think the main thrust of the Bull's strategy is to pay tax when contending, but avoid the "repeater tax" of being a taxplayer 4 out of the last 5 years. That strategy necessitates being smart about your money and being pretty deliberate about when you give out big money and how long.

Omer's contract is actually OK in that regard. If you take it the Bulls will go into tax for the length of Omer's 3 years, then they can go back under the tax line in year 4 and avoid the penalties. It's managable. Year 3 is wacky, but it isn't crippling in the way some are making it out to be. Contract length is an underappreciated aspect of the contract game: it isn't just about the $ amount.

[dice]

imagge - i believe you can't use the full MLE unless you're under 69 million. the MLE has to fit under the apron. essentially you need to below the tax to offer full MLE. all this apron talk just over-complicates it

[kyrv]

The Bulls are screwed unless they are willing to pay the tax in the future. That's the one sticking point. The other option is finding a team that will shave a year off Boozer's salary, which is preferable to paying the tax.

Would a future 1st as a sweetner make Carlos easier to unload?

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous. I get that everyone is from Missouri in this regard and that it's the "Show Me State," but let's be realistic. According to Sham, the Bulls are currently 2nd in the whole damn NBA in "committed salary" at $310,098,065. They like their current players A LOT, including Asik and Gibson for whom they have very little committed salary.

Does everyone honestly believe that this supposedly overly-deliberate, overly-conservative front office has a plan that calls for them to avoid the LT at all costs. Do you seriously believe that they signed Boozer, extended Noah and didn't think twice about applying the "Rose Rule" to the rule's namesake without any conception of what it meant vis a vis the LT? Really? Do you think that they don't know how to add? Do you think that they make each contract decision independently, without regard to how each fits in the bigger picture? Do you believe that these deliberate and conservative men just "wing it" in some sort of spasmodic fashion?

Pick a lane people, but please try to pick a somewhat reasonable one. They're deliberate and conservative or they're careless and whackyly spontaneous. As for me, I believe that they're realistic and they know that avoiding the LT is a pipe dream.

That's awesome.

Bulls simply have close to zero shot at winning if they don't pay the LT. It will be incredibly heard to remain elite if they don't pay the LT.

[dice]

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous

nobody has argued otherwise. it can be done, of course, but you need value contracts like the bulls have had the past 2 years. rose/taj/asik all being paid FAR less than market value is why the bulls were contenders. rose's deal alone more than made up for boozer's bad one. now we're down to taj's great contract balanced against boozer's bad one. and after this coming year we'll be down to boozer's bad deal

the only way we'll ever get a team as good as this past year with current assets is to get production out of mirotic and charlotte pick similar to what we've gotten out of taj and omer. and then go into the tax on taj to partially make up for losing rose's great rookie deal. and we'll STILL be missing the korver/brewer/cj depth that we've had. all-in-all, a very tall order

bottom line: this past year was the year. don't expect us to get back to that point in the next 5-6 years. we will be clear underdogs to the miamis and OKCs of the league for some time

[NSJ]

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous

nobody has argued otherwise. it can be done, of course, but you need value contracts like the bulls have had the past 2 years. rose/taj/asik all being paid FAR less than market value is why the bulls were contenders. rose's deal alone more than made up for boozer's bad one. now we're down to taj's great contract balanced against boozer's bad one. and after this coming year we'll be down to boozer's bad deal

the only way we'll ever get a team as good as this past year with current assets is to get production out of mirotic and charlotte pick similar to what we've gotten out of taj and omer. and then go into the tax on taj to partially make up for losing rose's great rookie deal. and we'll STILL be missing the korver/brewer/cj depth that we've had. all-in-all, a very tall order

bottom line: this past year was the year. don't expect us to get back to that point in the next 5-6 years. we will be clear underdogs to the miamis and OKCs of the league for some time

I believe we have something special with our bigs on the defensive front, as paint protectors--the combination of the Unicorn, Thibs, our Bigs, and wing players who are to at least make it difficult for LBJ to explode (I'm confident that Butler can be a good defender as well, if we cut Brewer loose) will make us still competitive.

No one will be favorites with the cHeat constructed as they are. I think though, we can give them a tougher time than OKC did.

We just need shooters. That hasn't changed. Look, even the cHeat need shooters. And they were able to find them. We can too.

But we need to keep what makes us special, and apart from the Unicorn, it's our Bigs. No one has the quality and defensive intensity we have in our Bigs (yes, I know about Boozer...but still).

[imagge]

It would be real close, but it could possibly be done.....the salary cap or the tax line has not been set yet. So let's say the cap is 59 mil with the lux tax at 71 mil which takes the 4 mil apron to 75 mil. Lets' take a look using Sham's numbers:

With 11 player including Omer's QO the Bulls come in at:

$75,964,363

It says $75.9 at the bottom but if you add them up it's $78m

Nope I added them again, it's
$75,964,363

[dice]

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous

nobody has argued otherwise. it can be done, of course, but you need value contracts like the bulls have had the past 2 years. rose/taj/asik all being paid FAR less than market value is why the bulls were contenders. rose's deal alone more than made up for boozer's bad one. now we're down to taj's great contract balanced against boozer's bad one. and after this coming year we'll be down to boozer's bad deal

the only way we'll ever get a team as good as this past year with current assets is to get production out of mirotic and charlotte pick similar to what we've gotten out of taj and omer. and then go into the tax on taj to partially make up for losing rose's great rookie deal. and we'll STILL be missing the korver/brewer/cj depth that we've had. all-in-all, a very tall order

bottom line: this past year was the year. don't expect us to get back to that point in the next 5-6 years. we will be clear underdogs to the miamis and OKCs of the league for some time

I believe we have something special with our bigs on the defensive front, as paint protectors--the combination of the Unicorn, Thibs, our Bigs, and wing players who are to at least make it difficult for LBJ to explode (I'm confident that Butler can be a good defender as well, if we cut Brewer loose) will make us still competitive.

No one will be favorites with the cHeat constructed as they are. I think though, we can give them a tougher time than OKC did.

We just need shooters. That hasn't changed. Look, even the cHeat need shooters. And they were able to find them. We can too.

But we need to keep what makes us special, and apart from the Unicorn, it's our Bigs. No one has the quality and defensive intensity we have in our Bigs (yes, I know about Boozer...but still).

the big man unit is about to deteriorate with the loss of asik, as will our shooting when we jettison korver (and possibly watson). those will not be replaced. not this year, probably not next year. maybe we'll be able to tread water by re-signing taj and paying the tax in 2013-2014. but we certainly won't be as good as last year's team

[imagge]

imagge - i believe you can't use the full MLE unless you're under 69 million. the MLE has to fit under the apron. essentially you need to below the tax to offer full MLE. all this apron talk just over-complicates it

Yes and No

NON-TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception. It allows a team to sign any free agent to a contract with a starting salary up to the following amounts

Once the Bulls let go all of their un guaranteed contracts and match Omer, sign Teague, the Bulls are at 66,929,488 for 9 players with 3 cap holds which puts the Bulls well below 69 mil in order to use the Full MLE. Sign a Full MLE with 2 cap holds and the Bulls are under the 74 mil tax apron in order to use the full MLE. The Nets are currently doing the same thing, they have to stay under 74 mil to sign the European to the full MLE with signing Wallace Williams, and trading for Johnson.

[make a move]

Pick a line? Why can't it be a little of both? Just as much as you're frustrated with fans who complain about the Bulls, we are frustrated with you fans who don't complain.

[PistolP]

It says $75.9 at the bottom but if you add them up it's $78m

Nope I added them again, it's
$75,964,363

That's excluding Omer's QO. Including Omer's QO its $78,286,238

Try it from the bottom up

Boozer, Deng, Noah, Rose, Rip, Butler, Taj is $63.4m for 7 players. Add Omer at $5m that's $68.4m for 8 players. There's no way to add 4 more players and a $5m MLE player and stay under the $74m apron.

We only get the full MLE if we let Omer walk.

[dice]

imagge - i believe you can't use the full MLE unless you're under 69 million. the MLE has to fit under the apron. essentially you need to below the tax to offer full MLE. all this apron talk just over-complicates it

Yes and No

NON-TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception. It allows a team to sign any free agent to a contract with a starting salary up to the following amounts

Once the Bulls let go all of their un guaranteed contracts and match Omer, sign Teague, the Bulls are at 66,929,488 for 9 players with 3 cap holds which puts the Bulls well below 69 mil in order to use the Full MLE. Sign a Full MLE with 2 cap holds and the Bulls are under the 74 mil tax apron in order to use the full MLE. The Nets are currently doing the same thing, they have to stay under 74 mil to sign the European to the full MLE with signing Wallace Williams, and trading for Johnson.

15.507 rose
15.000 booz
13.365 deng
11.300 noah
5.000 rip
5.000 omer
2.156 taj
1.067 butler
1.028 teague
1.000 player 10 cap hold
1.000 player 11 cap hold
1.000 player 12 cap hold

= 72.423. can't add MLE and keep under 74 mil apron

[kyrv]

Pick a line? Why can't it be a little of both? Just as much as you're frustrated with fans who complain about the Bulls, we are frustrated with you fans who don't complain.

I'm not sure why but that made me laugh. I apologize for supporting a really good team with really good players.

Bulls have had 3 awesome teams in my lifetime:

1) Motta Bulls

2) Jordan Bulls

3) Rose Bulls

I enjoyed the cr*p out of the first two and going to do the same for the third.

I'm not going to complain about things like not signing Nash and Mayo to less money than they would accept. That seems...stupid.

[transplant]

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous

nobody has argued otherwise. it can be done, of course, but you need value contracts like the bulls have had the past 2 years. rose/taj/asik all being paid FAR less than market value is why the bulls were contenders. rose's deal alone more than made up for boozer's bad one. now we're down to taj's great contract balanced against boozer's bad one. and after this coming year we'll be down to boozer's bad deal

the only way we'll ever get a team as good as this past year with current assets is to get production out of mirotic and charlotte pick similar to what we've gotten out of taj and omer. and then go into the tax on taj to partially make up for losing rose's great rookie deal. and we'll STILL be missing the korver/brewer/cj depth that we've had. all-in-all, a very tall order

bottom line: this past year was the year. don't expect us to get back to that point in the next 5-6 years. we will be clear underdogs to the miamis and OKCs of the league for some time

Nobody has argued that "Reinsdorf will never pay the tax?" You're a respected poster, but on this one where you been?

Lots of people here have been cooking up all sorts of scenarios in order to get the Bulls salaries under $70.3mil. I thought it might abate when they didn't salary dump Deng on draft night, the most obvious tax avoidance move, but it wasn't even a freakin' speed bump.

Just because you have a somewhat reasonable outlook, don't project that on the restless crowd.

As for whether this team can be as good as it was last season, they can and should do it in the simplest way possible...by having basically the same team. If they can add a piece, great, but the same team should be just as good...none of their players are that old. Oh wait, Rose will miss the early part of the season. Hell, those are only regular season games, and as I've learned here, those don't really count anyway. There's a reasonable chance that the team can be as good come playoff team as they were last season...maybe better since Rose will be so well rested....we just might kick ass.

It all just takes money (and a reasonable surgical outcome for Rose). It ain't my money so I'm kind of indifferent in that regard. Please understand that my reputation is that of a Reinsdorf apologist. This said, I've repeatedly said that Bulls' ownership and management need to stay in "win now" mode...the rarity of opportunities to actually win a championship demand this approach....and make no mistake, if things break right for the Bulls, they can win a championship next season. I don't much care if the odds are against it...the odds aren't prohibitive.

Honestly, sometimes I can't believe what I read here. This team is outstanding. I've been goofing around on Bulls boards for a long time and it's always been complaining about the Bulls not spending more. Now the Bulls actually have a terrific team, but everyone seems to want them to spend less. I don't get it.

As for the "waiting for Mirotic and the Charlotte pick" that's a phase 2 thing and the Bulls are damn smart for having a phase 2 plan. You all can quit on phase 1, but I'm not anywhere near there yet.

[imagge]

imagge - i believe you can't use the full MLE unless you're under 69 million. the MLE has to fit under the apron. essentially you need to below the tax to offer full MLE. all this apron talk just over-complicates it

Yes and No

NON-TAXPAYER MID-LEVEL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only when a team is below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes it above the apron. It cannot be used by a team that has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception. It allows a team to sign any free agent to a contract with a starting salary up to the following amounts

Once the Bulls let go all of their un guaranteed contracts and match Omer, sign Teague, the Bulls are at 66,929,488 for 9 players with 3 cap holds which puts the Bulls well below 69 mil in order to use the Full MLE. Sign a Full MLE with 2 cap holds and the Bulls are under the 74 mil tax apron in order to use the full MLE. The Nets are currently doing the same thing, they have to stay under 74 mil to sign the European to the full MLE with signing Wallace Williams, and trading for Johnson.

15.507 rose
15.000 booz
13.365 deng
11.300 noah
5.000 rip
5.000 omer
2.156 taj
1.067 butler
1.028 teague
1.000 player 10 cap hold
1.000 player 11 cap hold
1.000 player 12 cap hold

= 72.423. can't add MLE and keep under 74 mil apron

Looks like I forgot Taj

[dice]

I'm sorry, but this idea that the Bulls can have a consistently elite team without paying the LT is ridiculous

nobody has argued otherwise. it can be done, of course, but you need value contracts like the bulls have had the past 2 years. rose/taj/asik all being paid FAR less than market value is why the bulls were contenders. rose's deal alone more than made up for boozer's bad one. now we're down to taj's great contract balanced against boozer's bad one. and after this coming year we'll be down to boozer's bad deal

the only way we'll ever get a team as good as this past year with current assets is to get production out of mirotic and charlotte pick similar to what we've gotten out of taj and omer. and then go into the tax on taj to partially make up for losing rose's great rookie deal. and we'll STILL be missing the korver/brewer/cj depth that we've had. all-in-all, a very tall order

bottom line: this past year was the year. don't expect us to get back to that point in the next 5-6 years. we will be clear underdogs to the miamis and OKCs of the league for some time

Nobody has argued that "Reinsdorf will never pay the tax?"

nobody has argued what you said above, which is what i was responding to. we all know we'll have to pay the tax to be a true contender as things stand now

Just because you have a somewhat reasonable outlook, don't project that on the restless crowd.

i'm just telling the truth. the restless crowd can take it or leave it

As for whether this team can be as good as it was last season, they can and should do it in the simplest way possible...by having basically the same team

i'm all for it. but it ain't gonna happen

Now the Bulls actually have a terrific team, but everyone seems to want them to spend less. I don't get it.

i don't think there's anyone here who wouldn't love the FO to damn the tax consequences and re-sign omer, korver, watson and brewer. but it ain't gonna happen

As for the "waiting for Mirotic and the Charlotte pick" that's a phase 2 thing and the Bulls are damn smart for having a phase 2 plan. You all can quit on phase 1, but I'm not anywhere near there yet.

will you be if the bulls fail to match asik?

[Rerisen]

As for whether this team can be as good as it was last season, they can and should do it in the simplest way possible...by having basically the same team.

This is a great point, worth restating. And to me, the obvious path the FO kind of locked into - if we want to stay great - when they decided on no big moves at the draft.

We are falling all over ourselves trying to find an affordable PG when I think we already have one - CJ.

Likewise, people are exasperated that we can't afford a O.J Mayo, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, and wondering if our SG position is going to stink, when we already had a pretty effective defense/offense platoon in Brewer/Korver, and then Rip whenever he managed to play. It wasn't perfect, and its less than the perfect ideal, but considering the versatile strengths between them, it provided a good option most nights for matching up as Thibs best saw fit.

Sure I would like a 18 PPG lethal offensive weapon there, Kevin Martin or Eric Gordon say, but short of that becoming realistic, keeping what we had is beating the alternatives right now.

"Well how do we fix the team this way?" This is asked by those who see us still bullets shy of Miami and OKC. Well if you keep Asik, then you still have the talent and depth to make such a move from any position on your roster, that could better rebalance our offense to defense ratios.