The Kevin Love Thread: Update PG. 67, 78

Chitownbulls · Post #1421 » by **Chitownbulls** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:07 pm

History tells us we need future hall of famers to win any kind of title, not role players. Another pattern that has led to a lot of titles is having a great big and a great guard or wing. I like Love a lot, but I'm concern with what kind of player he will be once he's 32-33 yrs old. Is he still going to be as effective? He already can't jump, now he will just get slower. And is he to perimeter oriented? Will his game translate well in the playoffs when people really lock down? I just see Love as a #2 guy.

Aldridge is my guy. Can score in the post any time down the floor. Closer you are to the basket, the easier it is.

Pnjguy · Post #1422 » by **Pnjguy** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:10 pm

If Melo is out of the picture i try to keep Taj here with Love.

Boozer, Mirotic, Butler, Snell, #16.

MLE on Pierce

Rose/ Hinrich
#19/ Vet minimum
Pierce/ Dunleavy
Love/ Gibson
Noah/ Smith

Mech Engineer · Post #1423 » by **Mech Engineer** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:16 pm

Rerisen wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:Taj and Love complement each other well.
If they want to keep Mirotic for Melo, that's a different way of looking at it or keeping Mirotic for a future trade to get a wing player.

Never forget the money angle. The Bulls might not want to pay Taj's 8.5 as a backup once they have Kevin Love manning the position big minutes, more importantly, his huge impending contract.

Mirotic coming along in a year or so will be much cheaper for several years.

I hope that the Bulls FO with all their savings, increasing revenue, criticism will pay for the best roster they can get even if it means some guys are overpaid or keeping Taj for that matter. Whatever you look at it, you need 3 big guys and if Love/Noah are two of them, you need another guy who plays defense and can do the things those two cannot do.

That is the advantage with Spurs having guys like Diaw. When Splitter cannot match up well, they put Diaw out there. Those kind of match-ups can help you win a series. The philosophy of having two stars and just any guys around them is flawed. That works only with once in a generation type players like MJ.

MGB8 · Post #1424 » by **MGB8** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:18 pm

I would prefer to keep Gibson in a trade for Love, and move Mirotic. Mirotic, IMO, doesn't make sense when he's projected to be a similar player to Love, but will be stuck behind him for years. Hopefully Minnesota thinks a lot of Mirotic.

My ideal realistic-ish Kevin Love Trade would be something along the lines of Mirotic, 16, 19, future Chi or Sac pick next year (whichever is better), Boozer, MJD, non-guaranteeds including Greg Smith for Love and 2 of the following contracts which the Wolves like the least - Kevin Martin, Chase Budinger, Corey Brewer, JJ Barea and Alexi Shved.

But they'd really have to like Mirotic in order for that to be possible.

dice · Post #1425 » by **dice** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:21 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Is this another one of those "no star is worth trading for besides LeBron or Durant" conversations?

Even if you don't think Love or Anthony are undoubtedly worth maximum contracts, they are undoubtedly the best player in their future transactions.

doesn't matter. if they're not worth their deals you can't properly build around them

The NBA will always be about who has the best top end quality

the spurs don't have the best top end quality. they are favorites over the team with THE best top-end quality

all the pistons title teams did not have the best top-end quality. and the teams that HAVE had the top end quality had either players worth more than their contract or paid a lot of luxury tax

Building a team around a bunch of solid, non star players who play up to their contracts doesn't win. That's essentially what Denver and Atlanta have been recently

yet both have had more success than the wolves and knicks

Chicago isn't winning anything with a Rose, Gibson, Noah, Butler nucleus. That's not the type of quality that wins a championship.

we played miami tough in the ecf with that nucleus! with rose playing poorly!

GOBULLS · Post #1426 » by **GOBULLS** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:23 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/474585695797780481[/tweet]

SteveDobbs · Post #1427 » by **SteveDobbs** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:26 pm

GOBULLS wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/474585695797780481[/tweet]

In other words, he wanted to leave and this certainly won't change that.

Post #1428 » by **Rerisen** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:29 pm

dice wrote:the spurs don't have the best top end quality. they are favorites over the team with THE best top-end quality

A team like the Spurs can't be built by design, and aren't really an option to pick as a model. They have a unique salary structure that has come about all flowing from the luck of winning the draft, then winning off that initial stroke of fortune so much that their 3 stars agreed to play for under market deals, to try and keep winning before they retire. You can't copy how this team is built by asking Free Agents to come play for 60 or 75% their value.

Parker 12.5
Duncan 10.3
Manu 7.5

Rose alone kills any such team structure. But trading him doesn't solve it. When other good points come up, whether a Lowry now, eventually Lillard, etc, they will require market value to sign, retain, or trade for.

As crazy as it sounds the odds are probably more likely (though still tiny) of building a superteam like Miami by getting Love and Melo, or whatever 3 stars, as that is much more about simply doling out the cash and rearranging your roster properly at the right time.

IcemanGervin · Post #1429 » by **IcemanGervin** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:34 pm

I love jimmy and taj, but this is business and when a top 5 player becomes available you have to make decisions with the head and not the heart. Jimmy and Taj, while excellent at what they do (defense) can be found or replaced sufficiently enough via free agency. Before you jump all over that comment I'm not saying they are easily replaceable, but that type of player is more easy to find than a player like Kevin Love. These types of trades, while prevalent recently, are too rare to pass up. The guy is 25 years old coming off a 26 and 12 season. This is a no brainer and I think the Bulls know it.

drosestruts · Post #1430 » by **drosestruts** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:44 pm

The competition created by other teams looking to acquire Melo and Love make it that any deal the Bulls make for either player will be one that as the team take a step back next season, but improve the core of the team.

Due to this, I favor pursuing Love over Carmelo.

The better core to build around is Rose-Love-Noah as Love is 25 and it creates a much larger window for competing.

Carmelo is already 30 and fits better with our current roster but we won't be able to acquire him while keeping the team in tact.

Therefore, I support the pursuit of Love over Carmelo.

Now are we trading Boozer to Minny or amnestying him and letting Minny receive immediate cash savings.

If we trade Boozer, Gibson and Butler we can take back around $26 mil

If we amnesty Boozer, trade Gibson and Butler we can take back $20-22 mil.

$14 of which is Kevin Love.

Chitownbulls · Post #1431 » by **Chitownbulls** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:44 pm

If we trade Booz, Taj, Butler and a pick for Love.....how much money are we going to have in cap space leftover?

Anyone know? We probably would still have MLE and maybe money left for Mirotic.

TheStig · Post #1432 » by **TheStig** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:48 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:The trade will probably look like this

Gibson, Butler, Boozer, 16 and 19 for Kevin Love and Corey Brewer. ( Minny might make us take on one more deal)

We'd have Rose, Corey Brewer, Love and Noah starting. We'll have Dunleavy, Snell and Smith off the bench. We'll have the MLE to land a starting wing and the BPE to land a back up PG or PF. We'll also have the non guarantees to pull off a trade with.

Thats a lot for Love but its Love. I'd do it and try to get Kevin Martin from them. He would be a good efficient third option for us.

dice · Post #1433 » by **dice** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:49 pm

Rerisen wrote:
dice wrote:the spurs don't have the best top end quality. they are favorites over the team with THE best top-end quality

A team like the Spurs can't be built by design, and aren't really an option to pick as a model.

true to a degree. but my point stands. they've done it with a system, not stars. tim duncan doesn't play like a star anymore. manu is an old super-sub. and parker is overrated due to the media's need to elevate someone to star status to justify the spurs' success

overpaying star free agents is not a successful model, by the way. you simply need value contracts in whatever form that takes or you will not win titles. unless you're willing to pay massive luxury tax

bullslas · Post #1434 » by **bullslas** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:50 pm

dice wrote:
yifsuibfe1 wrote:
dice wrote:nope. it's about lebron james and a bunch of guys who are not overpaid. the only reason lebron didn't win in cleveland is because they had bad contracts

not at the money they're making. taj excepted, perhaps

are you serious? we had bogans, deng and boozer starting and led the league in wins. remember that?

I remember getting smoked by a star-driven team in the playoffs

lebron james on a value contract. d wade might have been a value contract at that time as well

and we didn't get smoked

If my memory is right they lost 4-1, that's smoked I think... Again, Lebron and Wade are all stars on good contracts so is Durant... If we get Love, we have 3 All Stars. Bosh has to defend Love, Noah can work down low. Now we need another scorer, to keep James from defending Rose. That is the real problem. I agree even with Love, we still have a hard time with Miami, unless, we can find another shooting wing player.... That is the problem the FO will need to solve somehow...

Post #1435 » by **Rerisen** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:52 pm

Kevin Martin would have been great 3 years ago (like for Asik) but I think people are too high on him now.

He's going to be 31, was a terrible defender even in his youth, and if you pair him with Love in the starting lineup, your pushing it on defense already. Especially if Butler and/or Taj are gone to get Love.

He had one of his poorer efficiency years last season and that's his calling card, if that continues to slip with age, he could easily become a negative starter tbh.

The change in the rip-though call, one of his pet favorites, seems to have hurt his FTA along with aging, which used to bolster his efficiency.

Still a knockdown shooter deep, but you could get Anthony Morrow for a 1/4 of the price to do that.

drivewayball · Post #1436 » by **drivewayball** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:52 pm

Reportedly, the Bulls offered Mirotic, Gibson, Butler and picks for Love ... and the TWolves haven't accepted that. Doesn't make much sense for people to suggesting lesser offers under those circumstances.

Chitownbulls · Post #1437 » by **Chitownbulls** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:55 pm

TheStig wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:The trade will probably look like this

Gibson, Butler, Boozer, 16 and 19 for Kevin Love and Corey Brewer. ( Minny might make us take on one more deal)

We'd have Rose, Corey Brewer, Love and Noah starting. We'll have Dunleavy, Snell and Smith off the bench. We'll have the MLE to land a starting wing and the BPE to land a back up PG or PF. We'll also have the non guarantees to pull off a trade with.

Thats a lot for Love but its Love. I'd do it and try to get Kevin Martin from them. He would be a good efficient third option for us.

Yeah seems like it. Especially for a guy who can just walk 12 months from now. Plus he has a list of teams he would play for. Lakers, warriors and Bulls. I'm not sure he would resign with any other teams that arnt real contenders.

I look at it like this though....Gibson (love him), Butler (could be gone next year anyway bc of FA, do you spend 5-7mil on Butler?), Booz (awful) and then 2 picks (most likely young role players) for superstar Love and solid nba starter Corey Brewer. You keep your amnesty option open, and build around Rose Noah and Love. Your best players are both 25-26yrs old. You could have them for the next 10years.

SteelerSpartan · Post #1438 » by **SteelerSpartan** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:55 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Is this another one of those "no star is worth trading for besides LeBron or Durant" conversations?

Even if you don't think Love or Anthony are undoubtedly worth maximum contracts, they are undoubtedly the best player in their future transactions. The NBA will always be about who has the best top end quality. Building a team around a bunch of solid, non star players who play up to their contracts doesn't win. That's essentially what Denver and Atlanta have been recently.

Chicago isn't winning anything with a Rose, Gibson, Noah, Butler nucleus. That's not the type of quality that wins a championship.

Sent from The HTC One Max using Tapatalk

Thinking we're going to out superstar Miami or out system offense teams like the spurs is just as foolish with thibs and rose leading this team.

Magilla_Gorilla · Post #1439 » by **Magilla_Gorilla** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:56 pm

drivewayball wrote:Reportedly, the Bulls offered Mirotic, Gibson, Butler and picks for Love ... and the TWolves haven't accepted that. Doesn't make much sense for people to suggesting lesser offers under those circumstances.

Link/source?

TheStig · Post #1440 » by **TheStig** » Thu Jun 5, 2014 4:57 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:The trade will probably look like this

Gibson, Butler, Boozer, 16 and 19 for Kevin Love and Corey Brewer. ( Minny might make us take on one more deal)

We'd have Rose, Corey Brewer, Love and Noah starting. We'll have Dunleavy, Snell and Smith off the bench. We'll have the MLE to land a starting wing and the BPE to land a back up PG or PF. We'll also have the non guarantees to pull off a trade with.

Thats a lot for Love but its Love. I'd do it and try to get Kevin Martin from them. He would be a good efficient third option for us.

Yeah seems like it. Especially for a guy who can just walk 12 months from now. Plus he has a list of teams he would play for. Lakers, warriors and Bulls. I'm not sure he would resign with any other teams that arnt real contenders.

I look at it like this though....Gibson (love him), Butler (could be gone next year anyway bc of FA, do you spend 5-7mil on Butler?), Booz (awful) and then 2 picks (most likely young role players) for superstar Love and solid nba starter Corey Brewer. You keep your amnesty option open, and build around Rose Noah and Love. Your best players are both 25-26yrs old. You could have them for the next 10years.

The Bulls wouldn't do the deal unless he signs an extension or opts in for next year.