The Around The NBA Thread

[DuckIII]

This would be very good for the game!

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-discussing-rule-change-so-players-couldnt-use-unnatural-motions-on-jump-shots-to-draw-fouls-203826570.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplink

Somewhere a clammy Trae Young is balled up in the corner of a bathroom rocking back and forth mumbling to himself “it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay . . . .”

[DuckIII]

Yeah, if it wasn't for the windup, I'm not sure it's even a foul. He swiped the ball cleanly for sure - and this is coming from a person who irrationally hates Phoenix (the city, and through the transitive process all of its teams) for personal reasons.

I think the windup is ironically what actually made Cam get hit hard in the first place. I think Cam sees the big paw wound up, and then instinctively turns his face away. In turning his face away, he actually moves his head forward into a position to get hit. If Joker just went for a normal swipe, I don't think Cam has time to see it, and react to put his head in the way. That's not saying it's Cam's fault. I think he just reacted naturally to something he saw happening. It was excessive, and deserved a flagrant 1. Flagrant 2, nah. While it wouldn't have changed the series outcome, I'm sure Utah/LAC would've been happy to see Phoenix have to expend energy, and possibly get nicked up in another game, or two.

I think everyone's judgement of the play is clouded because it was Jokic and they wanted to see him out there.

But That was a text book flagrant 2. No question.

You have to remember that is a 7ft 300 pound man going full force swipe across a man half his size. He could have easily broken his nose or worse. The actual intent is irrelevant. He even said he wanted to hard foul out of frustration. He didnt want to hurt him for real but again, its irrelevant. He was probably trying to swipe his hands or arms, but caught his face. That error is the difference between F1 and F2. Everyone knows this.

There’s no such thing as a textbook F2 because the rule is so ambiguous. Here it is:

“Flagrant Foul Penalty 2: Unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent”

What does that even mean? Says nothing about intent, wind up, follow through, whatever.

To me a textbook F2 warranting an ejection is undercutting an airborne player, head hunting, high elbows in traffic, etc. These things are obviously intended to inflict harm and are not basketball plays.

Jokic was clearly, in every way, going for the ball. And then Payne poked his face into the swipe and got his nose grazed. That’s what happened. There’s no debating that.

So the question is, is “winding up” to swipe at a held ball, alone, enough to warrant an ejection. The rule certainly provides no guidance. And as a matter of common sense, in my view that is not even remotely enough.

Indeed, to me while it probably should still be a F1, it’s significantly closer to a downgrade to a common foul than it is to a F2. It was an absurd call.

[Dresden]

I think the windup is ironically what actually made Cam get hit hard in the first place. I think Cam sees the big paw wound up, and then instinctively turns his face away. In turning his face away, he actually moves his head forward into a position to get hit. If Joker just went for a normal swipe, I don't think Cam has time to see it, and react to put his head in the way. That's not saying it's Cam's fault. I think he just reacted naturally to something he saw happening. It was excessive, and deserved a flagrant 1. Flagrant 2, nah. While it wouldn't have changed the series outcome, I'm sure Utah/LAC would've been happy to see Phoenix have to expend energy, and possibly get nicked up in another game, or two.

I think everyone's judgement of the play is clouded because it was Jokic and they wanted to see him out there.

But That was a text book flagrant 2. No question.

You have to remember that is a 7ft 300 pound man going full force swipe across a man half his size. He could have easily broken his nose or worse. The actual intent is irrelevant. He even said he wanted to hard foul out of frustration. He didnt want to hurt him for real but again, its irrelevant. He was probably trying to swipe his hands or arms, but caught his face. That error is the difference between F1 and F2. Everyone knows this.

There’s no such thing as a textbook F2 because the rule is so ambiguous. Here it is:

“Flagrant Foul Penalty 2: Unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent”

What does that even mean? Says nothing about intent, wind up, follow through, whatever.

To me a textbook F2 warranting an ejection is undercutting an airborne player, head hunting, high elbows in traffic, etc. These things are obviously intended to inflict harm and are not basketball plays.

Jokic was clearly, in every way, going for the ball. And then Payne poked his face into the swipe and got his nose grazed. That’s what happened. There’s no debating that.

So the question is, is “winding up” to swipe at a held ball, alone, enough to warrant an ejection. The rule certainly provides no guidance. And as a matter of common sense, in my view that is not even remotely enough.

Indeed, to me while it probably should still be a F1, it’s significantly closer to a downgrade to a common foul than it is to a F2. It was an absurd call.

I don't think it matters if he was going for the ball or not. What matters is if the contact was "unnecessary and excessive". Taking a full wind up meets the criteria for "excessive", and while "unnecessary" can be hard to define, in the judgement of the officials it was unnecessary for Jokic to use that much force and take such a big wind up if all he was trying to do was knock the ball loose. It's also possible that the officials were using precedent in how the rule has been enforced and interpreted in the past in making the call.

[CobyWhite0]

I think everyone's judgement of the play is clouded because it was Jokic and they wanted to see him out there.

But That was a text book flagrant 2. No question.

You have to remember that is a 7ft 300 pound man going full force swipe across a man half his size. He could have easily broken his nose or worse. The actual intent is irrelevant. He even said he wanted to hard foul out of frustration. He didnt want to hurt him for real but again, its irrelevant. He was probably trying to swipe his hands or arms, but caught his face. That error is the difference between F1 and F2. Everyone knows this.

There’s no such thing as a textbook F2 because the rule is so ambiguous. Here it is:

“Flagrant Foul Penalty 2: Unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent”

What does that even mean? Says nothing about intent, wind up, follow through, whatever.

To me a textbook F2 warranting an ejection is undercutting an airborne player, head hunting, high elbows in traffic, etc. These things are obviously intended to inflict harm and are not basketball plays.

Jokic was clearly, in every way, going for the ball. And then Payne poked his face into the swipe and got his nose grazed. That’s what happened. There’s no debating that.

So the question is, is “winding up” to swipe at a held ball, alone, enough to warrant an ejection. The rule certainly provides no guidance. And as a matter of common sense, in my view that is not even remotely enough.

Indeed, to me while it probably should still be a F1, it’s significantly closer to a downgrade to a common foul than it is to a F2. It was an absurd call.

I don't think it matters if he was going for the ball or not. What matters is if the contact was "unnecessary and excessive". Taking a full wind up meets the criteria for "excessive", and while "unnecessary" can be hard to define, in the judgement of the officials it was unnecessary for Jokic to use that much force and take such a big wind up if all he was trying to do was knock the ball loose. It's also possible that the officials were using precedent in how the rule has been enforced and interpreted in the past in making the call.

Hindsight that obviously had nothing to do with the call during the game, but Jokic admitted he was just trying to take a hard foul.

"I wanted to change the rhythm of the game, I wanted to give us some energy, maybe change the whistle a little bit, so I wanted to make a hard foul,"

If he would have just ran up on Payne in an attempt to trap him in the corner or defend him closely and "accidently" bumped him, it's probably not even a flagrant. And he outweighs Cam by 100 pounds, he could have sent the same message by doing that.

[kodo]

This would be very good for the game!

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-discussing-rule-change-so-players-couldnt-use-unnatural-motions-on-jump-shots-to-draw-fouls-203826570.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplink

Somewhere a clammy Trae Young is balled up in the corner of a bathroom rocking back and forth mumbling to himself “it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay . . . .”

Guy hit the hardest will be Luka. He literally practices flailing on his 3s and falling down like he's hit as part of his pre-game.

https://www.facebook.com/ClutchPoints/videos/352270075594655

Both are incredibly talented and will be fine. They don't need to play like this to win games.

[CobyWhite0]

This would be very good for the game!

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-discussing-rule-change-so-players-couldnt-use-unnatural-motions-on-jump-shots-to-draw-fouls-203826570.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplink

Somewhere a clammy Trae Young is balled up in the corner of a bathroom rocking back and forth mumbling to himself “it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay . . . .”

Guy hit the hardest will be Luka. He literally practices flailing on his 3s and falling down like he's hit as part of his pre-game.

https://www.facebook.com/ClutchPoints/videos/352270075594655

Both are incredibly talented and will be fine. They don't need to play like this to win games.

As ugly as it is, I can't really blame guys for taking full advantage of the rules.

Of course, I'm also the same with stealing signs - if you even suspect a team is stealing your signs, CHANGE. YOUR. SIGNS. There's nothing scarier than "knowing" a curveball is coming and instead being thrown some high, hard heat on the inside corner.

Or selling out to stop the run, and instead seeing 2 receivers running fly patterns.

[Dan Z]

Read on Twitter

[kulaz3000]

Read on Twitter

Yeah, okay.

Though I will question this seasons All-NBA selection though. There are several questionable selections and omissions this season quite frankly.

[terry]

Read on Twitter

Is he trying to make some sort of interesting point? Yeah, Jimmy Butler was an all star with the bulls and it was expected he would continue to do all star caliber things in the future. What's the point he's trying to make other than the obvious?

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I don’t know if it’s incompetence or being scared, but Giannis continues to blow my mind with his logic on the court.

1:40 in a tie game, he has Harden in the post, Harden calls off the double team, and Giannis immediately bricks a baseline fadeaway.

So many times he had mismatches, guys like Joe Harris on him, and did nothing with it.

No reason he shouldn’t be toe to toe with Durant and have 50 right now, but he’s mentally weak IMO.

He continues to choke, fumbled the ball with 15 seconds left and turned it over.

[ThreeMileAllan]

I don’t know if it’s incompetence or being scared, but Giannis continues to blow my mind with his logic on the court.

1:40 in a tie game, he has Harden in the post, Harden calls off the double team, and Giannis immediately bricks a baseline fadeaway.

So many times he had mismatches, guys like Joe Harris on him, and did nothing with it.

No reason he shouldn’t be toe to toe with Durant and have 50 right now, but he’s mentally weak IMO.

He continues to choke, fumbled the ball with 15 seconds left and turned it over.

I think he needs better coach and or a better number 2

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Am2626]

I don’t know if it’s incompetence or being scared, but Giannis continues to blow my mind with his logic on the court.

1:40 in a tie game, he has Harden in the post, Harden calls off the double team, and Giannis immediately bricks a baseline fadeaway.

So many times he had mismatches, guys like Joe Harris on him, and did nothing with it.

No reason he shouldn’t be toe to toe with Durant and have 50 right now, but he’s mentally weak IMO.

He continues to choke, fumbled the ball with 15 seconds left and turned it over.

I think he needs better coach and or a better number 2

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I would love to see what Thibs would be able to do with that Bucks team. Giannis is the perfect superstar to play under Thibs. Too bad we won’t get to see that because Thibs will be in New York for a long time.

[d boy gentleman]

Bucks choked. Plain and simple

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I don’t know if it’s incompetence or being scared, but Giannis continues to blow my mind with his logic on the court.

1:40 in a tie game, he has Harden in the post, Harden calls off the double team, and Giannis immediately bricks a baseline fadeaway.

So many times he had mismatches, guys like Joe Harris on him, and did nothing with it.

No reason he shouldn’t be toe to toe with Durant and have 50 right now, but he’s mentally weak IMO.

He continues to choke, fumbled the ball with 15 seconds left and turned it over.

I think he needs better coach and or a better number 2

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I think he is the number 2. And maybe the greatest number 2 ever. But he can’t shoot, can’t shoot free throws, and goes soft when it matters over and over. It has to be exhausting for Bucks fans.

And Bud needs to go. To make little to no adjustments and simply watch as KD destroys you over and over is pretty inexcusable. Made no attempt to have Giannis guard him, probably an indictment on both Giannis and Bud. No hard traps on him, very little fronting or ball denial. Just a weak game plan.

This game and series was gift wrapped for the Bucks. Harden was abysmal, especially on defense.

[Dan Z]

If the Bucks lose this series (and it looks like they will) I'm not sure what moves they should make outside of getting a new coach.

[kulaz3000]

If the Bucks lose this series (and it looks like they will) I'm not sure what moves they should make outside of getting a new coach.

They need to keep the majority of the roster, not because of the contracts and what not, but because right now they need a little more consistency as far as the roster goes. They can't keep tinkering with the roster, unless they can somehow pull off a blockbuster trade somehow. I mean, in all honesty, they have all the players, and they have a pretty impressive and deep bench.

I would say they fire Bud and change the coach, but I'm not exactly sure who is available who could take them over the hump. Not sure Rick from Mavs is serious about moving on, but I did read that he was interested in that role. I think he would be a pretty excellent fit for that team and roster.

[TheGOATRises007]

KD had one of the best playoff performances ever

He was unreal

[Repeat 3-peat]

Watch on YouTube

[CobyWhite0]

Read on Twitter

Yeah, okay.

Though I will question this seasons All-NBA selection though. There are several questionable selections and omissions this season quite frankly.

Yay for Jimmy?

3 teams in 3 years
Ugly 1st-round sweep this season
Pissed off several teammates and coaches

It must suck to live in the past

[WindyCityBorn]

Read on Twitter

Yeah, okay.

Though I will question this seasons All-NBA selection though. There are several questionable selections and omissions this season quite frankly.

Yay for Jimmy?

3 teams in 3 years
Ugly 1st-round sweep this season
Pissed off several teammates and coaches

It must suck to live in the past

Yeah he wasn’t traded because he isn’t good. He keeps bouncing around so obviously there is a problem with him