Around The NBA : 2024-25 Season

[CobysHairpick]

I knew this was gonna be a good series, but omg the pacers unironically lived up to their name and ran OKC off the court. Mixing up coverages and guarding 94ft really gassed them out. I think OKC needs to switch up coverages and do the same. I've noticed they give up a lot of space on jumpers due to biting on over helping. It'll interesting to see game 4. I'm still pulling for the thunder cuz I like that squad (and eff the pacers if we're being real as bulls fans lol), but man this series is turning out way more compelling than I thought.

I will always root against ref/league bias and I absolutely hate how the Thunder has the refs' whistle in their pocket. It was disgusting how the refs tried to get the Thunder back in the game during the last minute of play last night.

[coldfish]

Knicks firing Thibodeau to hire Mike Brown would be an epic self own.

[Indomitable]

I knew this was gonna be a good series, but omg the pacers unironically lived up to their name and ran OKC off the court. Mixing up coverages and guarding 94ft really gassed them out. I think OKC needs to switch up coverages and do the same. I've noticed they give up a lot of space on jumpers due to biting on over helping. It'll interesting to see game 4. I'm still pulling for the thunder cuz I like that squad (and eff the pacers if we're being real as bulls fans lol), but man this series is turning out way more compelling than I thought.

I will always root against ref/league bias and I absolutely hate how the Thunder has the refs' whistle in their pocket. It was disgusting how the refs tried to get the Thunder back in the game during the last minute of play last night.

Hey they obviously lost their contact out of one eye.

[kyrv]

These playoffs have convinced me of what you guys already realize -- that I know nothing about NBA basketball.

Not at all, the Pacers had a slow start, at season's end they were actually one of the best teams. I've always thought really highly of Carlisle but he's even going nuts this postseason with his moves.

'OKC though had just a tremendous kind of historic season so losing 2 of the first 3 is really a huge upset, even considering the above.

[kyrv]

Yeah, I'm also mixed on the Knicks. I watch the Knicks as my second team. He hasn't really changed (although he did seem a little less intense this season) but he continues to overplay his starters and, IMO, it catches up to him in the playoffs. It's easy to say Indy was better, but they came into the series more rested and, if not for that crazy Indy comeback, the series may have gone the other way. That said, it was kinda crazy that the Knicks made it through the season with all of it's starters relatively healthy...especially Brunson and KAT, the way those guys play, I can't believe they stayed upright.

Barring a deal for Giannis, I'm running back that squad and try to shift KAT to PF (and Hart to the bench) next season.

I'm not even hating on Thibs for the minutes thing, as KAT & JB play only slightly elevated minutes, it's mostly Hart / OG / Mikal he grinds to dust.
Over the years Thibs has gotten better on many negatives we complained about when he was here. But the one aspect that hasn't changed is that he just lets his guy, or two in the case of KAT & JB, just basically play 1 on 5 out there. Both guys take some incredibly tough shots, his offense doesn't generate easy looks for his best guys. Even Mikal who is a tertiary option is mainly taking fadeaway baseline middies...the tertiary option should be scoring on wide open set corner 3s or cuts/layups. There's no reason for a tertiary guy to be taking MJ shots.

It's the opposite of Kerr. You know who is the most dangerous guy every time you play them. And somehow 12 seconds into the shotclock and all 5 warriors running around in some pattern somehow Steph Curry is wide open, how does that even happen.

Probably didn't help THibs that the Pacers and OKC coaches have shown you can win regular season games while still trying to find out what you have in your roster to prepare for the playoffs, and to make adjustments during the playoffs. Hart implying to everyone that he had to tell the HC to change the starting lineup didn't make Thibs look too good. Granted Thibs is not the only stubborn HC out there but the playoffs can shine a lot on flaws.

[greenwing]

These playoffs have convinced me of what you guys already realize -- that I know nothing about NBA basketball.

Not at all, the Pacers had a slow start, at season's end they were actually one of the best teams. I've always thought really highly of Carlisle but he's even going nuts this postseason with his moves.

'OKC though had just a tremendous kind of historic season so losing 2 of the first 3 is really a huge upset, even considering the above.

The Pacers are an outlier. They were 9th in offensive efficieny and 13th in defensive efficiency for the season. They outperformed their expected regular season record by four games. They are a pedestrian team in terms of contenders and truthfully they were not a contender going into the playoffs. They've had a combination of luck in terms of contenders having injuries and an experienced coach who's won it before. They still could easily lose this series but if they pull it off all kudos to them. However, if they do pull it off then it goes to show you the following two things:

1. There are no super teams in the NBA and the current landscape has a lot of parity
2. The Bulls are not as far away from competing as many of us would think

I do think we have a lot of talent on the roster but we do not have top tier talent. But as good as Haliburton is, the Pacers also have a collection of very good players but no one is putting up superstar numbers. A win over a top tier team like OKC that does have a legit superstar in SGA would signal that putting together a very good squad will keep you in it every year until another superteam arises.

[kodo]

It's been an incredible battle of the benches, a huge strength for both teams, and Indy's bench is winning.
Indy bench: 41 ppg
OKC bench: 31 ppg

These are amazing numbers. Last Finals Boston only relied on their bench for 23 ppg, as the playoffs get deeper almost all teams rely on their stars & starters more. The year before, Denver won with 22 ppg from their bench.

With everyone trying to copycat the Finals teams, I wonder if we'll see more true 8 man rotations in the future vs just relying on your top 2 guys. I mean Phoenix has been a flaming disaster with that.

[Ice Man]

It cracks me up that the Sixers threw away season after season after season to get high draft picks, and the only player from The Process era to make noise in the NBA FInals has been TJ McConnell -- an undrafted guy that any team could have signed.

Now that's irony.

[Dan Z]

It cracks me up that the Sixers threw away season after season after season to get high draft picks, and the only player from The Process era to make noise in the NBA FInals has been TJ McConnell -- an undrafted guy that any team could have signed.

Now that's irony.

Hinkie was fired before he could finish "The Process". The decision-makers who followed him used their assets poorly.

[FecesOfDeath]

Just imagine that if GarPax were fired just a season later, the Bulls would've drafted Haliburton, because he went to Iowa State, and it would've topped Lauri for being the flukiest pick of their tenure.

[DuckIII]

It cracks me up that the Sixers threw away season after season after season to get high draft picks, and the only player from The Process era to make noise in the NBA FInals has been TJ McConnell -- an undrafted guy that any team could have signed.

Now that's irony.

Hinkie was fired before he could finish "The Process". The decision-makers who followed him used their assets poorly.

And Hinkie screwed the pooch himself by doing idiotic “process” things with zero nuance, such as drafting Noel, Okafor and Embiid. Teams knew he had no intention of keeping them all, which reduced his bargaining position immediately. And Okafor and Noel both bombed.

[Wingy]

I just find it incredible that Youtube/ABC/NBA/whoever don't throw a bone and make a deal to just show the finals free on streaming. As if there aren't enough ads? Majority of the sub-40 population doesn't have regular TV, and that's gotta be a big chunk of b-ball demographic.

YES

It’s on ESPN3. They just don’t promote that at all. Saw it, forgot it. Fought with my HD antenna to mediocre at best reception. Then remembered again. I could just watch it clearly on ESPN3 on my main tv via the Sling sub I got for the playoffs.

Yes, could just use laptop or phone, but more convenient and enjoyable on the main tv.

[Wingy]

and due to be paid which massively shrinks value compared to a rookie deal.

Giddey will be paid more than his rookie deal because he's way better than almost all players on rookie deals. Here were the number of players by draft year who were better than Giddey was last year, by the VORP measure -

2024 - 0
2023 - 2
2022 - 1
2021 - 3

Only 6 players drafted of the 120 first-round selections over the past 4 years outperformed Giddey. Four of them were top 4 picks (Wemby, Cade, Mobley, and Amen), meaning that only 2 players at the draft level that the Bulls could have gotten for Caruso were better than Giddey.

The Bulls made a GREAT trade.

Nope.

The massive advantage of rookie contracts is finding a performer on a value deal. Especially in an ever more apron-conscious league, and with an ownership group allergic to paying any tax.

Any strategy hunting out players like Giddey means you’re going to end up paying market value or something close to it almost immediately. The Finalists have a lot of value deals. You have to seek and hunt those players out.

It’s nice so many are high on Giddey and it would be great for the team if he’s the real deal. I watch these playoffs and I just don’t see it.

I still see the Bulls on a collision course with more playin glory. Switch the faces, make them younger to at least provide hope (which many are high on now), but end of the day as I’ve posted before - Bulls are headed for the same results as the Lavine/Vuc/Derozan trio (sans AC, and healthy Lonzo).

[Ice Man]

Hinkie was fired before he could finish "The Process". The decision-makers who followed him used their assets poorly.

Well, that's a hypothetical. We don't know if Hinkie would have made better decisions. I mean, he said that he was a genius, but his record was nothing special.

1) Traded Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel and a draft pick that became Elfrid Payton. Bad.
2) Selected Embiid as the #3 pick. Neutral, because that was an obvious choice.
3) Traded Payton for Saric. Good.
4) Traded MCW for a pick that became Mikal Bridges. Good.
5) Selected Okafor as the #3 pick. Crap player, but I will score that as a neutral since that was the consensus choice.
6) Signed TJ McConnell. Hinkie threw about 20 summer signees against the wall and this one stuck. Good.

I mean, whatever. You might love his strategic decision, but his tactic record is sparse. (I left off tons of little deals where he sent nobodies for nobodies.)

Anyway, even if he was a secret genius, Simmons would have gone AWOL and Embiid would have been hurt every playoffs.

Besides, it's still funny. TJ McConnell, of all people.

[Ice Man]

[The massive advantage of rookie contracts is finding a performer on a value deal.

But there aren't any to speak of, outside of guys drafted high in the lottery. Sengun here, Jalen Williams there. The odds are very low of finding a late lottery pick (what Caruso would have fetched) who is genuinely good during his rookie contract. Almost all of them are like Coby and Pat, they don't help you win games during their rookie contracts, so you re-sign them to a second contract at a much higher price.

I mean, I guess if you want to argue that a 5% chance of landing a unicorn is better than a 100% chance of having Giddey, I could live with that. There is a logic in chasing unicorns, although it's not my favorite way of building a team.

[Wingy]

[The massive advantage of rookie contracts is finding a performer on a value deal.

But there aren't any to speak of, outside of guys drafted high in the lottery. Sengun here, Jalen Williams there. The odds are very low of finding a late lottery pick (what Caruso would have fetched) who is genuinely good during his rookie contract. Almost all of them are like Coby and Pat, they don't help you win games during their rookie contracts, so you re-sign them to a second contract at a much higher price.

I mean, I guess if you want to argue that a 5% chance of landing a unicorn is better than a 100% chance of having Giddey, I could live with that. There is a logic in chasing unicorns, although it's not my favorite way of building a team.

Ironically, the two examples you gave were later picks, along with the Bulls current greatest hope in Matas…as were Haliburton, Siakam, and SGA.

Giddey’s just one thing amongst a whole bunch, which by and large I’ve stopped complaining about on a regular basis (like I used to before last season). A single contribution to an ongoing pattern of incompetence. Just not worth it for myself to rehash the same things so often.

The Giddey one really gets to me though, and I can’t help myself but to chime in sometimes. The excitement level just doesn’t compute having been alive long enough, and so many times having seen what the playoffs turn into compared to the regular season. I just don’t see how this guy is effective when the intensity, speed, and physicality get cranked up to 10 and he has to be one of your primary on-ball players in order to be himself. Then that’s not even touching on the defensive end.

[Chi town]

Pacers are making Billy Ball pace and 3s look playoff legit.

Everyone said you can only win regular season games this way.

What is becoming abundantly clear is the type of players you need. High motor, IQ, and hustle all the time. Quick decisions makers. Physical.

Think we only have 3-4 players like that right now. Need 3-4 more to really have a strong identity as a team.

[Ice Man]

Ironically, the two examples you gave were later picks

That's not irony; those guys were the only 2 later picks who matched or exceeded Giddey's VORP score this season. Nobody else on a rookie contract reached that level, except for Top 4 selections.

At any rate, I think the core of your argument is somewhat different, in that Giddey is empty calories -- good regular-season stats but not so helpful in the playoffs because he's weak defensively. Like, say, Sabonis. That could be true.

[Wingy]

Ironically, the two examples you gave were later picks

That's not irony; those guys were the only 2 later picks who matched or exceeded Giddey's VORP score this season. Nobody else on a rookie contract reached that level, except for Top 4 selections.

At any rate, I think the core of your argument is somewhat different, in that Giddey is empty calories -- good regular-season stats but not so helpful in the playoffs. Maybe. That's an argument worth discussing.

For the most part on the latter. One point in the discussion that I don’t think we’re in sync on is that I’d rather be taking that swing at our own version of one of those guys, even if the odds are slim.

I’m not arguing that Giddey didn’t turn out to be a good player from those drafts in terms of non-top 5 picks. I think we would be better off getting a pick and taking a swing at finding our own version than locking into a young vet at market rate. We miss, we didn’t lose out on much.

You can always decide I’m tired of sucking and trade lots of future picks for some Vucevic and Derozan kind of dudes.

[DuckIII]

Hinkie was fired before he could finish "The Process". The decision-makers who followed him used their assets poorly.

Well, that's a hypothetical. We don't know if Hinkie would have made better decisions. I mean, he said that he was a genius, but his record was nothing special.

1) Traded Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel and a draft pick that became Elfrid Payton. Bad.
2) Selected Embiid as the #3 pick. Neutral, because that was an obvious choice.
3) Traded Payton for Saric. Good.
4) Traded MCW for a pick that became Mikal Bridges. Good.
5) Selected Okafor as the #3 pick. Crap player, but I will score that as a neutral since that was the consensus choice.
6) Signed TJ McConnell. Hinkie threw about 20 summer signees against the wall and this one stuck. Good.

I mean, whatever. You might love his strategic decision, but his tactic record is sparse. (I left off tons of little deals where he sent nobodies for nobodies.)

Anyway, even if he was a secret genius, Simmons would have gone AWOL and Embiid would have been hurt every playoffs.

Besides, it's still funny. TJ McConnell, of all people.

He also turned around and immediately traded Mikal Bridges - who was a perfect fit for exactly what Philly needed and went to Nova - for a total bust workout darling. And other bad stuff.