Omer Asik and Rockets agree to deal 3 years 25 million

[kyrv]

As for whether this team can be as good as it was last season, they can and should do it in the simplest way possible...by having basically the same team.

This is a great point, worth restating. And to me, the obvious path the FO kind of locked into - if we want to stay great - when they decided on no big moves at the draft.

We are falling all over ourselves trying to find an affordable PG when I think we already have one - CJ.

Likewise, people are exasperated that we can't afford a O.J Mayo, Jason Terry, Ray Allen, and wondering if our SG position is going to stink, when we already had a pretty darn effective defense/offense platoon in Brewer/Korver, and then Rip whenever he managed to play. It wasn't perfect, and its less than the perfect ideal, but considering the versatile strengths between them, it provided a good option most nights for matching up as Thibs best saw fit.

Sure I would like a 18 PPG lethal offensive weapon there, Kevin Martin or Eric Gordon say, but short of that becoming realistic, keeping what we had is beating the alternatives right now.

I think they are better keeping it and then re-visit next year when the rest will expire (I understand not bringing Brewer back).

If they swap out Watson for Kirk and Roy, that's cool. If they let both Korver and Asik go, that doesn't tell me they are going for it this season.

---------------

Speaking of the Turkish Hammer! Goff on the Score is saying the Bulls are split on matching Asik.

This is plausible if not likely, there are great arguments on both sides.

[Rerisen]

If they swap out Watson for Kirk and Roy, that's cool. If they let both Korver and Asik go, that doesn't tell me they are going for it this season.

I really see Roy as just due diligence, doesn't seem that realistic.

But even aside Asik, we cannot let Korver, Watson, and yes Lucas, go, with only Kirk and Teague as replacements and expect to be the same team.

The amount of offense then leaving, both efficient (Korver) and simply volume shot creation (Lucas, Watson) cannot be replaced by those two players. Unless Teague is some kind of wonder rookie, and I think the opposite is more likely.

I like how Sham described it in talking about drafting Teague:

The Bulls sorely lacked offensive creators even before Derrick Rose went down - now that he has, they have precisely zip. Bar a massive infusion of scoring talent (see also - Kevin Martin trade idea), which they can't afford due to luxury tax concerns, it will be like the Chris Duhon era all over again, and without a Ben Gordon to occasionally bail them out. Whoever plays point guard for Chicago is unfortunately but inevitably charged with being the answer to this problem.

In Thibs system, and with the system offense players we have the PG MUST be the engine of our offense.

[kyrv]

If they swap out Watson for Kirk and Roy, that's cool. If they let both Korver and Asik go, that doesn't tell me they are going for it this season.

I really see Roy as just due diligence, doesn't seem that realistic.

But even aside Asik, we cannot let Korver, Watson, and yes Lucas, go, with only Kirk and Teague as replacements and expect to be the same team.

The amount of offense then leaving, both efficient (Korver) and simply volume shot creation (Lucas, Watson) cannot be replaced by those two players. Unless Teague is some kind of wonder rookie, and I think the opposite is more likely.

I'm probably in the minority that I would prefer Lucas back (tho he's getting offered more so that's cool), I appreciate the volume scoring Watson and Lucas did. Not pretty, but was something.

Or, let Brewer and Lucas go, but keep Watson and Korver and sign Kirk.

[make a move]

Kyrv why do we need sign Kurt Heinrich, seriously? Why go backwards? And why would you be willing to take a chance on a Roy, instead of trading or signing a player with no history of injuries? I don't see the reward in such a signing.

[make a move]

If they swap out Watson for Kirk and Roy, that's cool. If they let both Korver and Asik go, that doesn't tell me they are going for it this season.

I really see Roy as just due diligence, doesn't seem that realistic.

But even aside Asik, we cannot let Korver, Watson, and yes Lucas, go, with only Kirk and Teague as replacements and expect to be the same team.

The amount of offense then leaving, both efficient (Korver) and simply volume shot creation (Lucas, Watson) cannot be replaced by those two players. Unless Teague is some kind of wonder rookie, and I think the opposite is more likely.

I'm probably in the minority that I would prefer Lucas back (tho he's getting offered more so that's cool), I appreciate the volume scoring Watson and Lucas did. Not pretty, but was something.

Or, let Brewer and Lucas go, but keep Watson and Korver and sign Kirk.

Kyrv are you serious? Watson, Korver and Roy?

[kyrv]

Kyrv why do we need sign Kurt Heinrich, seriously? Why go backwards? And why would you be willing to take a chance on a Roy, instead of trading or signing a player with no history of injuries? I don't see the reward in such a signing.

I'm not sure of either. I'm not certain Kurt is better than Watson, plus as Re pointed out, given the Bulls' offense, Watson takes on more value, especially if Korver is gone, but even if he's there.

Roy, well I assume they would check him out before signing him. I have absolutely no idea if he could play a round of golf let alone half an NBA game.

They have more info than I do, but I could see a scenario where Kurt/Roy is an upgrade, just as I can see a scenario where both are really banged up and not contributing. Of course Watson had his own injuries. Too many injuries here.

[Rerisen]

The Bulls have to balance short term and long term and its not easy. Long term (with Rose back) is more important, but at least for being relevant next year, we do have to actually survive to that point, and we can't neglect that totally in building the team as if Rose is healthy from the first jump when we know he won't be.

So some kind of scoring capable PG is going to have to be here. Especially since Boozer and Rip, your only other main scoring options, are pretty shaky health guys.

Maybe worst case, that's Lucas back, or Pargo, but you will need someone like that certainly if Kirk is the other PG.

Then after Rose is back, Kirk fits a little better as a backup to either position. But it won't matter if by that time the team is floundering.

[Mech Engineer]

In Thibs system, and with the system offense players we have the PG MUST be the engine of our offense.

I wonder after seeing the problems with that system even when Rose is healthy, why hasn't Thibs tried some new techniques. I admit I am not an expert on diagnosing if he is running something else. But, can't he incorporate some sets of Rick Adelman/D'Antoni/Popovich where they have super scoring offenses for a little bit. I know the talent and offensive strengths of the players is part of it but he has seen Rose beaten up and CJ/JL3 struggle to do anything.

[ecnirp]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE8qRiG46ks&feature=related[/youtube]

[C3]

I'm a little late to this Omer discussion. I like the guy and would have liked to keep him here. However this price is a little steep for my liking.

The Bulls need to be very careful with dishing out contracts. Omer was a really nice luxury for the team to bring off the bench, but when they have a defensive player like Noah who can bring allot of the same skill set, there just going have to deal with the consequences and let him go.

In my opinion were going to have to eventually retool this team once again around Rose, I'd prefer for the organization to wait until we are certain we indeed have a healthy Rose. It would suck to spend all that money now, and not have enough left over to fill in a missing piece when the team truly needs it.

I think the smart decision is to hold off on this contract, bring in another young guy, hope for the best, and rebuild the missing pieces once Rose is ready.

Omer was a nice piece to have, handled his term here with class, and if he leaves I wish him the best.

[Rerisen]

This is a really big gut check for the Bulls. But I think the Rockets might end up out of luck all thanks to Derrick Rose. If the Bulls had lost in the playoffs, fair and square to Miami, it would be clear this team didn't have enough. But because we were robbed of that chance, I think the FO may feel its worth giving the same core team another shot. Even despite Rose's injury.

Another factor to consider is just what it took to get Asik. We scouted him in Europe, spent three second round draft picks to get him, then waited for 2 years for him to come to the NBA. That's a lot of investment for a guy to only play 2 years for us, and just 15 minute per game, and then be taken away for nothing because another team is willing to pay on that same potential we saw on him. Would we let that happen to Mirotic before we saw what he could really do?

Nor is it any secret the how much the Bulls have professed to like just how good his defensive ability is, and indeed even further potential, with all the talk of being prepared to match to this point.

8m a year is not really a 'ridiculous' money offer for a quality center, and potential starting one. Many far worse bigs have gotten bigger deals. 10 million? Yes that would be ridiculous.

Lastly, I'm not sure why everyone is calling Morey a genius for 'structuring the contract'. As I understand it, The Arenas Provision already set in stone how much Asik could get his first 2 years. The only thing Morey had to decide was how much total money he thought Asik was worth, and there was no other choice but to backload that money. He could have chosen 4 years or 3 years, but its debatable which was better for the Bulls. K.C. implied the 3 might be better, and I can see that point.

If we let Asik go to Houston, I think its a pretty big punch right to the nose of the Bulls, and indeed derailing a long-term plan of a player that the team invested in and counted on as part of their future strength. If teams know the Bulls are forever hostage to the lux tax, this will certainly keep happening over and over. Starting next year with Taj. It's fine to try and build a team prudently, but the rules of the league mean setting player value is not always in your hands. If your talent hits the market, sometimes the market sets the price, and you can either have money or you can keep your talent. Money doesn't produce wins till you use it. Talent produces wins, and you can trade it for other talent. So when you are a contending team, I think you keep your talent - unless the price is absurd. I do not think it is in this case.

[Mech Engineer]

This is a really big gut check for the Bulls. But I think the Rockets might end up out of luck all thanks to Derrick Rose. If the Bulls had lost in the playoffs, fair and square to Miami, it would be clear this team didn't have enough. But because we were robbed of that chance, I think the FO may feel its worth giving the same core team another shot. Even despite Rose's injury.

Another factor to consider is just what it took to get Asik. We scouted him in Europe, spent three second round draft picks to get him, then waited for 2 years for him to come to the NBA. That's a lot of investment for a guy to only play 2 years for us, and just 15 minute per game, and then be taken away for nothing because another team is willing to pay on that same potential we saw on him. Would we let that happen to Mirotic before we saw what he could really do?

Nor is it any secret the how much the Bulls have professed to like just how good his defensive ability is, and indeed even further potential, with all the talk of being prepared to match to this point.

8m a year is not really a 'ridiculous' money offer for a quality center, and potential starting one. Many far worse bigs have gotten bigger deals. 10 million? Yes that would be ridiculous.

Lastly, I'm not sure why everyone is calling Morey a genius for 'structuring the contract'. As I understand it, The Arenas Provision already set in stone how much Asik could get his first 2 years. The only thing Morey had to decide was how much total money he thought Asik was worth, and there was no other choice but to backload that money. He could have chosen 4 years or 3 years, but its debatable which was better for the Bulls. K.C. implied the 3 might be better, and I can see that point.

That's what I thought about Morey being a genius for offering that contract and the sports media seemingly shocked about it. I don't believe when the Bulls said they will match Asik's contract that they had no idea that Asik will command such a contract when they know the rules of the CBA more than anybody in the media or fans. Looking at the number of teams Asik was meeting, I am sure they would have got calls for a trade from those teams before this.

And, the biggest issue is the denial by a lot of Bulls fans is the injury history of Noah. I am more concerned with Noah being healthy than Rose after his ACL recovery.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

I'm a little late to this Omer discussion. I like the guy and would have liked to keep him here. However this price is a little steep for my liking.

The Bulls need to be very careful with dishing out contracts. Omer was a really nice luxury for the team to bring off the bench, but when they have a defensive player like Noah who can bring allot of the same skill set, there just going have to deal with the consequences and let him go.

In my opinion were going to have to eventually retool this team once again around Rose, I'd prefer for the organization to wait until we are certain we indeed have a healthy Rose. It would suck to spend all that money now, and not have enough left over to fill in a missing piece when the team truly needs it.

I think the smart decision is to hold off on this contract, bring in another young guy, hope for the best, and rebuild the missing pieces once Rose is ready.

Omer was a nice piece to have, handled his term here with class, and if he leaves I wish him the best.

[kingkirk]

I'm a little late to this Omer discussion. I like the guy and would have liked to keep him here. However this price is a little steep for my liking.

The Bulls need to be very careful with dishing out contracts. Omer was a really nice luxury for the team to bring off the bench, but when they have a defensive player like Noah who can bring allot of the same skill set, there just going have to deal with the consequences and let him go.

In my opinion were going to have to eventually retool this team once again around Rose, I'd prefer for the organization to wait until we are certain we indeed have a healthy Rose. It would suck to spend all that money now, and not have enough left over to fill in a missing piece when the team truly needs it.

I think the smart decision is to hold off on this contract, bring in another young guy, hope for the best, and rebuild the missing pieces once Rose is ready.

Omer was a nice piece to have, handled his term here with class, and if he leaves I wish him the best.

I appreciate a well thought out post.

I enjoyed this and completely agree.

[Rerisen]

Neil Hayes ‏@bynhayes

#Bulls GM Gar Forman on Omer Asik: "We've made it clear that we value Omer and we want Omer to stay with the Bulls." #Rockets

Also, not sure this McGraw article was posted yet.

Will Bulls match Omer's offer?

...
This is a tough call, but I’m going to say yes, they will match, and here’s why:

1. The Bulls believe Asik will continue to get better. So even though he averaged a meager 2.9 points and 2.8 rebounds last season, they think his future is very bright, even though he figures to remain a backup to Noah in the short term.

2. There is still some flexibility in the Bulls’ payroll. They could amnesty Boozer, trade Noah or simply take a one-year luxury tax hit in 2014-15. The great unknown is how much it will cost to re-sign Taj Gibson next year.

3. This might be the biggest reason to match Asik’s offer: Who are the Bulls going to get to replace him?

Here’s what they have at their disposal this summer – a $3 million mid-level exception, minimum salary free agents or a trade. The three nonguaranteed contracts (Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer and C.J. Watson) are decent trading chips, but big men are tough to find.

Here’s the list of low-cost free agent big men: Aaron Gray, Kwame Brown, Anthony Randolph, Rony Turiaf, Joel Przybilla, Nazr Mohammed, Hasheem Thabeet, Troy Murphy and Lou Amundson.

That’s why I think the Bulls will match. Once Omer is gone, he’s gone.

That $14.09 million is outrageous for one season. But you could also look at is as they’ll pay Asik $27.9 million during his first five years with the Bulls. That’s an average of $5.58 million.

In reality, the Bulls probably thought an Asik offer sheet would be for more total dollars. Things could change if the Rockets are willing to trade SG Courtney Lee to the Bulls. But this is probably something they’re willing to accept. Daily Herald

[dice]

This is a really big gut check for the Bulls. But I think the Rockets might end up out of luck all thanks to Derrick Rose. If the Bulls had lost in the playoffs, fair and square to Miami, it would be clear this team didn't have enough. But because we were robbed of that chance, I think the FO may feel its worth giving the same core team another shot. Even despite Rose's injury.

think you're really reaching here

Another factor to consider is just what it took to get Asik. We scouted him in Europe, spent three second round draft picks to get him, then waited for 2 years for him to come to the NBA. That's a lot of investment for a guy to only play 2 years for us, and just 15 minute per game, and then be taken away for nothing because another team is willing to pay on that same potential we saw on him. Would we let that happen to Mirotic before we saw what he could really do?

it sucks, for sure. the system disincentivizes good old fashioned smart team building, and that's a shame

8m a year is not really a 'ridiculous' money offer for a quality center, and potential starting one

asik is not a potential starter on the bulls though

has any team EVER paid a guy 8 mil per with the intention of giving him only 15 min/game?

[dice]

Neil Hayes ‏@bynhayes

#Bulls GM Gar Forman on Omer Asik: "We've made it clear that we value Omer and we want Omer to stay with the Bulls." #Rockets

another retreat from prior statements. didn't they tell brewer something similar?

[dice]

Also, not sure this McGraw article was posted yet.

Will Bulls match Omer's offer?

...
This is a tough call, but I’m going to say yes, they will match, and here’s why:

1. The Bulls believe Asik will continue to get better. So even though he averaged a meager 2.9 points and 2.8 rebounds last season, they think his future is very bright, even though he figures to remain a backup to Noah in the short term.

2. There is still some flexibility in the Bulls’ payroll. They could amnesty Boozer, trade Noah or simply take a one-year luxury tax hit in 2014-15. The great unknown is how much it will cost to re-sign Taj Gibson next year.

3. This might be the biggest reason to match Asik’s offer: Who are the Bulls going to get to replace him?

Here’s what they have at their disposal this summer – a $3 million mid-level exception, minimum salary free agents or a trade. The three nonguaranteed contracts (Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer and C.J. Watson) are decent trading chips, but big men are tough to find.

Here’s the list of low-cost free agent big men: Aaron Gray, Kwame Brown, Anthony Randolph, Rony Turiaf, Joel Przybilla, Nazr Mohammed, Hasheem Thabeet, Troy Murphy and Lou Amundson.

That’s why I think the Bulls will match. Once Omer is gone, he’s gone.

That $14.09 million is outrageous for one season. But you could also look at is as they’ll pay Asik $27.9 million during his first five years with the Bulls. That’s an average of $5.58 million.

In reality, the Bulls probably thought an Asik offer sheet would be for more total dollars. Things could change if the Rockets are willing to trade SG Courtney Lee to the Bulls. But this is probably something they’re willing to accept. Daily Herald

convinces me of nothing regarding the FO's intentions, nor does it persuade me that it's a good idea to match

[Red Larrivee]

another retreat from prior statements. didn't they tell brewer something similar?

Brewer said something to the likes of "They told me [in the exit interview] that they were going to do everything they could to bring me back next season."

BS 101
Instructor: Gar Forman

[kingkirk]

Its GMing 101.

Offering Fields 20 mil, not GMing 101.