Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

waffle · Post #1441 » by **waffle** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:52 pm

if Clev had this locked up it would have happened. Who are the other suitors?

NO WAY we are ponying up what is being suggested. Minny will get assets, yes, but it will be a Chicago friendly deal. If it happens, which I doubt.

panthermark · Post #1442 » by **panthermark** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:55 pm

aaqubed wrote:If we break it into two trades for the purposes of matching, we can trade Mirotic for Martin straight up, and Taj, McDermott, and S&T Nazr at the minimum for Love.

We can't S&T Nazr...we had to renouce his rights.

We can break it into two trades and include Bear-Toes in the Taj/McD side...but I would like to keep him for some young depth at his cheap salary.

Not sure who I would want to give up. Snell, MDJ, or Bear-toes...

MDJ would help the team the most, but has no long term potential. (Especially on a team that just traded away two rookies).
Still not sure what we have in Snell.

WinCity · Post #1443 » by **WinCity** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:12 pm

I like that we are being aggressive in going after Love even if we aren't the leader in the hunt.

If CLE holds firm to not giving up other assets besides Wiggins the Bulls offer of Taj, Mirotic/McD and picks is a solid offer that gives them a nice balance of win now and prospects.

Ultimately you need star power to win a title so a 25 yr old star is preferable for us over pinning our hopes that one or both of McD or Niko pan out to be more than role players.

panthermark · Post #1444 » by **panthermark** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:21 pm

WinCity wrote:I like that we are being aggressive in going after Love even if we aren't the leader in the hunt.

If CLE holds firm to not giving up other assets besides Wiggins the Bulls offer of Taj, Mirotic/McD and picks is a solid offer that gives them a nice balance of win now and prospects.

Ultimately you need star power to win a title so a 25 yr old star is preferable for us over pinning our hopes that one or both of McD or Niko pan out to be more than role players.

That pretty much sums it up. Throw in one of MDJ, Bear-toes, or Snell to get Martin and call it a day (after you grab Marion and Nazr).

I like Taj, and I have nothing agasint McD or Mirotic.....I think both can be pretty good players. But chances are slim that either one will hit Kevin Love levels anytime soon. I could see one or both hitting prime Kevin Martin levels, which would mean they are pretty good players. Fringe All-Star...

On a side note.... I don't think there are too many SG's that averaged +20 points for multiple seasons and never made an All-Star team. I guess that is a fuction of not playing D, playing in the west, and getting injured. He is probably one of the better "never to make an All-Star team" players out there.

Chi · Post #1445 » by **Chi** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:27 pm

If Wiggins isn't in the deal for Cleavland doesn't that take them out of the running?

Taj Gibson alone is killing their offer in that case. We should be in the lead by a landslide if they refuse to include him.

Wolves_Nation · Post #1446 » by **Wolves_Nation** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:36 pm

Chi wrote:If Wiggins isn't in the deal for Cleavland doesn't that take them out of the running?

Taj Gibson alone is killing their offer in that case. We should be in the lead by a landslide if they refuse to include him.

My perspective is without Wiggins, the Bulls offer is by far my favorite.

WinCity · Post #1447 » by **WinCity** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:48 pm

Wolves_Nation wrote:
Chi wrote:If Wiggins isn't in the deal for Cleavland doesn't that take them out of the running?

Taj Gibson alone is killing their offer in that case. We should be in the lead by a landslide if they refuse to include him.

My perspective is without Wiggins, the Bulls offer is by far my favorite.

Who said they werent including him/ Last I heard it was haggling over other pieces that was holding things up. Ralph (our Bulls inside info guy) noted MIN doesnt care for the CLE's other pieces besides Wiggins, so they want a third team to get involved.

Chi · Post #1448 » by **Chi** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:50 pm

WinCity wrote:
Wolves_Nation wrote:
Chi wrote:If Wiggins isn't in the deal for Cleavland doesn't that take them out of the running?

Taj Gibson alone is killing their offer in that case. We should be in the lead by a landslide if they refuse to include him.

My perspective is without Wiggins, the Bulls offer is by far my favorite.

Who said they werent including him/ Last I heard it was haggling over other pieces that was holding things up. Ralph (our Bulls inside info guy) noted MIN doesnt care for the CLE's other pieces besides Wiggins, so they want a third team to get involved.

Oh, I was unaware of that. I just noticed that Wiggins hadn't been traded for him yet. 8-)

panthermark · Post #1449 » by **panthermark** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:52 pm

Yeah, it does look like we are on the outside looking in.

They want Wiggins, and may channel the other players to Philly.

I wonder if it is a siutation where Chicago is left with either the "depth" trade, or no trade at all? I also wonder if Cleveland does not want any of their players to go to Chicago?

Or....it could be the Love extension issue. Who knows....

bad knees · Post #1450 » by **bad knees** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:06 pm

panthermark wrote:
bad knees wrote:I am much less excited about Pau than most. I hope that he gets the substantial majority of his time as a backup to Noah. Pau can't guard PFs anymore, and I want Noah protecting the rim, rather than chasing stretch 4s around the basket.

Starting Niko would also get him some guaranteed minutes each game with the better players.

If Doug or Niko is not playing serviceable defense on any night, they can be pulled quickly. If it becomes a regular problem, then they would lose their spot.

From the way our roster is constructed, it makes sense to pair Noah with Niko. It also makes sense to start Mc3. If that means that the Bulls violate some unwritten rule, then so be it.

I imagine Thibs won't do it, but I would like to see him give it a try.

Where does Taj fit in to all of that?
I can see McD starting over MDJ long before Mirotic starts over Taj and Gasol.

I think the best players will play.
So if no changes are made, I expect a starting line-up of:
Rose
Butler
MDJ (for now, McD at the All-Star break)
Noah (at PF on defense)
Gasol

I think that the best team will play, not necessarily the five players with the best individual talents. Taj fits in my scheme as the same role he had last year, just as Thibs has said. I maintain that the best Bulls team is to have Niko paired with Noah, and to have Niko on the floor with Derrick. Best way to accomplish that is to start Niko.

I would apportion the minutes by multiplying each of our four bigs' salaries by three, with some slight adjustment to bring Noah down from 36 to 32.

Mirotic: $5M > 15 min
Noah: $12M > 36 min, minus 4 for balancing > 32 min
Taj: $8M > 24 min, plus two from Noah > 26 min
Gasol: $7M > 21 min, plus two from Noah > 23 min

Keeps everyone fresh, and fairly apportions minutes based on value.

jc23 · Post #1451 » by **jc23** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:14 pm

I honestly feel if Love was close to being traded to any team except cle we wouldnt be as in this. I mean if cle doesnt get Love their options to bring in another superstar is limited.

Kaled · Post #1452 » by **Kaled** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:36 am

jc23 wrote:I honestly feel if Love was close to being traded to any team except cle we wouldnt be as in this. I mean if cle doesnt get Love their options to bring in another superstar is limited.

The only way i see other superstar landing on Cleveland is via trade or taking huge paycuts, and if Carmelo serves as a mold for future FA superstars, that isn't happening anytime soon.

Jayme96 · Post #1453 » by **Jayme96** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:53 am

It would be great if the Bulls could hold onto McDermott and still get Love. I have a feeling though that McDermott would have to be included. He'd be the most desirable piece the Bulls could offer, and the Wolves have nothing at SF really either. If the Bulls could give up Mirotic, Snell and Gibson for Love, that would be one hell of a team really.

Rose, Hinrich
Butler, Dunleavy
McDermott, Dunleavy
Love, Gasol
Noah, Gasol

That's a really good top 8, with an elite starting 5 if McDermott does well, and Gasol makes for one hell of a super-sub in the post. McDermott and Butler should compliment each other perfectly, as would Love and Noah. You got the unathletic guy to score, and the more athletic defensive player with him to cover up for him.

Mech Engineer · Post #1454 » by **Mech Engineer** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:56 am

I think players know the cap is increasing in a few years. And, if you are one of the top 2 players on a contending team, would you make 15-17 million when a guy like Parsons would be making something close?

Love is not going to promise to extend because of that. Melo was unique because he was in his 4th(?) extension and could get more max salary as a longer tenured player. Love wants money and he wants it later unlike Melo.

Kaled · Post #1455 » by **Kaled** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:20 am

Jayme96 wrote:It would be great if the Bulls could hold onto McDermott and still get Love. I have a feeling though that McDermott would have to be included. He'd be the most desirable piece the Bulls could offer, and the Wolves have nothing at SF really either. If the Bulls could give up Mirotic, Snell and Gibson for Love, that would be one hell of a team really.

Rose, Hinrich
Butler, Dunleavy
McDermott, Dunleavy
Love, Gasol
Noah, Gasol

That's a really good top 8, with an elite starting 5 if McDermott does well, and Gasol makes for one hell of a super-sub in the post. McDermott and Butler should compliment each other perfectly, as would Love and Noah. You got the unathletic guy to score, and the more athletic defensive player with him to cover up for him.

Yeah, McD has too be included in any Love-to-Chi deal i think.

BullsFTW · Post #1456 » by **BullsFTW** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:25 am

I still believe Love ends up in Cleveland. As long as the Cavs give up a lot to get him, I'd be fine. Regardless if we are included in the trade or not.

blinkofaneye · Post #1457 » by **blinkofaneye** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:45 pm

Looks like something is going down. Anthony Bennnett pulled from Pro-Am game by agent per wiretap.

JohnnyNightrain · Post #1458 » by **JohnnyNightrain** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:56 pm

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... mal-Offers

Sources continue to indicate that the Chicago Bulls are not aggressively pursuing a trade for Kevin Love and have made no formal offers.

The Bulls were rumored to have made an offer of Taj Gibson, Nikola Mirotic and Doug McDermott to the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Hardfoul · Post #1459 » by **Hardfoul** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:53 pm

KC just being a mouthpiece for Bulls here? Haven't there been multiple sources confirming the offer (Sheridan, Ralph, others?)

FWIW, in my opinion Snell is a better prospect than Bennett, and we treat Snell as a throw away in trades yet Bennett gets mentioned as a key piece to major trade for KLove. Didn't Minny learn their lesson with Michael Beasley? Whatever, we aren't getting KLove and that's definitely ok with me, at least not at the expense of Taj, McDirty, and Mirotic, that is a lateral move.

cubd8 · Post #1460 » by **cubd8** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:20 pm

Hardfoul wrote:KC just being a mouthpiece for Bulls here? Haven't there been multiple sources confirming the offer (Sheridan, Ralph, others?)

FWIW, in my opinion Snell is a better prospect than Bennett, and we treat Snell as a throw away in trades yet Bennett gets mentioned as a key piece to major trade for KLove. Didn't Minny learn their lesson with Michael Beasley? Whatever, we aren't getting KLove and that's definitely ok with me, at least not at the expense of Taj, McDirty, and Mirotic, that is a lateral move.

It's certainly conflicts other reports that the Bulls did make an offer, although nobody seemed able to confirm what the actual offer was (other than Taj Gibson being involved). KC Johnson has been downplaying the chances of a Bulls trade for Love even after the reports last week indicated that Chicago was a serious player in these talks.

I guess we now have a few different variations of a possible trade offer (from last week) along with a new one that the Bulls never made an offer and aren't really involved.

The RealGM article includes quotes from McDermott that have nothing to do with the actual story as well. I'm not sure why his level of enjoyment in playing with Team USA's camp has anything to do with trade rumors.