NBA Trade Thread #12

[Infinity2152]

Of course I think the Bulls should get the best deal they can. I'm a fan of the team and want them to do well.

If they trade for a 2nd tier star, or even a star, it won't be for expiring contracts only. The other team will ask for assets...Matas, picks...whatever that is.

I'd rather not give up future picks for someone like Sabonis. He's better than Vucevic, but it would feel like the Vuc trade 2.0.

Yeah, I think we had a disconnect. There are very few players I'm giving up picks for. Bane I'd considered because of his age, contract length etc but that's gone. I believe highly Jaylen Brown can be a top 10 player. He very well may show that this year with the Celtics, but it will be too late for us then.

Expirings, Coby and Portland pick have been the bulk of my trade proposals and that's because I don't believe in letting contracts expire. I think we could use those assets to get better long term pieces than say PG13 and #3. Let's be real, they're going to want pick 12. Taking on that much money to move up 9 spots in a draft where there's not even a consensus third best player is just gambling to me.

I think we're in a GREAT place to make value moves without worrying so much about fit and permanent players. A lot of teams are cap needy. Like the Nets are not using their cap space in free agency and they're hoping to stack assets thru being a third team.

Would like us to enter summer 2026 with Giddey ($25-$30 mill), Matas ($5 mill), Tier two Coby replacement ($12-30 mill) and hopefully another tier 2 ($20-$40 mill) plus our 2025 rookie and 2026 rookie.

Example (Just an example, don't say they can't happen)
Maybe Coby plus expiring traded for Tier two coby replacement. Coby sent to Dallas for extended Gafford and a pick. He's only 27, PER 24 last year, will be cheaper to extend than Coby. Maybe $20 mill, or around half.

Vucevic, Ball and Portland pick for second Tier two replacement) Kuminga ($25 mill), Moody 12 mill

I still have the same number of picks, plus my rookies, but I have 2 tier two pieces in 2026 I can send out other than Giddey and Matas. I'm not looking for guys to stay forever, unless we do the Jaylen Brown one.

They could be tier 2, tier 3, but I think they're more valuable next summer than our pieces that we're sending out

I agree with you that they shouldn't let the expiring contacts expire, but think they should use them to take on salary and get future picks in the process (OKC style...or what Charlotte has done with Josh Green/Grant Williams).

I have my doubts that Coby, the Portland pick and expiring contract would bring back much in a trade. Coby + expiring contracts for Gafford and a pick...that might be okay depending on the pick. The Bulls would lose a lot of offense without Coby, but I've often though that AK should think about the teams future more than the the immediate present.

Kuminga I'm not sure about. Why isn't he doing better? Why does GSW want to trade him? I said this in another post, but I might do it if it's PW for Kuminga straight up. I'd hate to get Kuminga and then if he doesn't work out the Bulls now have two duds on the roster (PW and Kuminga...of course they could also improve and it works out).

I changed it. Coby and Collins now go for Jalen Green ($33 mill) as third part in the Durant trade. So Green and Kuminga are my new young players/trade pieces. I'd be perfectly fine moving Kuminga on . Green too. If they work out, great! Young guys, decent contracts, great potential. If not, young tier 2 trade pieces on pretty good deals.

Giddey, Ayo, Carter
Green, Huerter, terry
Matas, Williams, Phillips
Kuminga, Noa Essengue
Smith, FA center, 2nd rd pick

Ride out the year, see how everybody fits, let's Giddey and Matas, all the young guys show what they have, everybody's locked up and you have a ton of options in the summer. Would say OKC adding a guy who would have been considered tier 2 at best at the time thru trade, SGA, has way more to do with their success than having a ton of draft picks.

[Ccwatercraft]

I AM NOT SAYING THEY WILL MAKE US A CONTENDER. I keep trying to make that point. No single move is going to make us a contender. If we do all that and get pick 3, unless he's Lebron James reborn, he's not making us a contender. Almost every asset I'm talking about in most of these trades are expiring. They're going to be gone.

If we don't give up these expiring assets to get the second tier player. By your assertion, we don't have the assets to get a star anyway, so what's really changed? Except we have a second tier star to trade instead of cap space or multiple expiring contracts.

It seems y'all assume we're supposed to lose every deal we're in. The reason you look at 6 or 7 options is even if the chance of each is only 15% for you to get a great deal, 6 or 7 proposals gives you a damned good chance to get one. We should only take the deals we feel we're winning on the asset side. The Bulls have no desperation, no expectations, no cap problems right now. We can afford to only take the best deal available. Every team is not in the same position. Some probably have very serious mandates for change right now, whether it be salary or talent acquisition. We're in a pretty good position to get out-sized value for our trade pieces if we find the desperate suitors.

Of course I think the Bulls should get the best deal they can. I'm a fan of the team and want them to do well.

If they trade for a 2nd tier star, or even a star, it won't be for expiring contracts only. The other team will ask for assets...Matas, picks...whatever that is.

I'd rather not give up future picks for someone like Sabonis. He's better than Vucevic, but it would feel like the Vuc trade 2.0.

Yeah, I think we had a disconnect. There are very few players I'm giving up picks for. Bane I'd considered because of his age, contract length etc but that's gone. I believe highly Jaylen Brown can be a top 10 player. He very well may show that this year with the Celtics, but it will be too late for us then.

Expirings, Coby and Portland pick have been the bulk of my trade proposals and that's because I don't believe in letting contracts expire. I think we could use those assets to get better long term pieces than say PG13 and #3. Let's be real, they're going to want pick 12. Taking on that much money to move up 9 spots in a draft where there's not even a consensus third best player is just gambling to me.

I think we're in a GREAT place to make value moves without worrying so much about fit and permanent players. A lot of teams are cap needy. Like the Nets are not using their cap space in free agency and they're hoping to stack assets thru being a third team.

Would like us to enter summer 2026 with Giddey ($25-$30 mill), Matas ($5 mill), Tier two Coby replacement ($12-30 mill) and hopefully another tier 2 ($20-$40 mill) plus our 2025 rookie and 2026 rookie.

Example (Just an example, don't say they can't happen)
Maybe Coby plus expiring traded for Tier two coby replacement. Coby and Collins got to Rockets , we get Jalen Green ($33 mill) back as third part in Durant trade as in rumors.

Vucevic, Ball for second Tier two replacement) Kuminga ($25 mill), Moody 12 mill

I still have the same number of picks, plus my rookies, but I have 2 tier two pieces in 2026 I can send out other than Giddey and Matas. I'm not looking for guys to stay forever, unless we do the Jaylen Brown one.

They could be tier 2, tier 3, but I think they're more valuable next summer than our pieces that we're sending out

And I refuse to believe AK would pick the best player with pick 3. I saw what he did with pick 4. He's not drafting who you think. Y'all would be so mad when we take on PG13 and draft Derick McQueen or Maluach, lmao! I'm trying to save you some heartache!

"
Vucevic, Ball for second Tier two replacement) "

Looking at that package, and possibly thr Portland pick actually doesn't look awful to me, it's actually a viable offer to a team with holes or a bench to round off. It's seems like it could bring something of value in return.

Personally I'd rather see a continuous retooling process in an attempt to hit something vs sucking just so we get another pick in a year or two that might turn into something a year or two after that.

It's hard to watch a game and think "man that unknown player we might draft in 2027 is really going to be special"

[Infinity2152]

Of course I think the Bulls should get the best deal they can. I'm a fan of the team and want them to do well.

If they trade for a 2nd tier star, or even a star, it won't be for expiring contracts only. The other team will ask for assets...Matas, picks...whatever that is.

I'd rather not give up future picks for someone like Sabonis. He's better than Vucevic, but it would feel like the Vuc trade 2.0.

Yeah, I think we had a disconnect. There are very few players I'm giving up picks for. Bane I'd considered because of his age, contract length etc but that's gone. I believe highly Jaylen Brown can be a top 10 player. He very well may show that this year with the Celtics, but it will be too late for us then.

Expirings, Coby and Portland pick have been the bulk of my trade proposals and that's because I don't believe in letting contracts expire. I think we could use those assets to get better long term pieces than say PG13 and #3. Let's be real, they're going to want pick 12. Taking on that much money to move up 9 spots in a draft where there's not even a consensus third best player is just gambling to me.

I think we're in a GREAT place to make value moves without worrying so much about fit and permanent players. A lot of teams are cap needy. Like the Nets are not using their cap space in free agency and they're hoping to stack assets thru being a third team.

Would like us to enter summer 2026 with Giddey ($25-$30 mill), Matas ($5 mill), Tier two Coby replacement ($12-30 mill) and hopefully another tier 2 ($20-$40 mill) plus our 2025 rookie and 2026 rookie.

Example (Just an example, don't say they can't happen)
Maybe Coby plus expiring traded for Tier two coby replacement. Coby and Collins got to Rockets , we get Jalen Green ($33 mill) back as third part in Durant trade as in rumors.

Vucevic, Ball for second Tier two replacement) Kuminga ($25 mill), Moody 12 mill

I still have the same number of picks, plus my rookies, but I have 2 tier two pieces in 2026 I can send out other than Giddey and Matas. I'm not looking for guys to stay forever, unless we do the Jaylen Brown one.

They could be tier 2, tier 3, but I think they're more valuable next summer than our pieces that we're sending out

And I refuse to believe AK would pick the best player with pick 3. I saw what he did with pick 4. He's not drafting who you think. Y'all would be so mad when we take on PG13 and draft Derick McQueen or Maluach, lmao! I'm trying to save you some heartache!

"
Vucevic, Ball for second Tier two replacement) "

Looking at that package, and possibly thr Portland pick actually doesn't look awful to me, it's actually a viable offer to a team with holes or a bench to round off. It's seems like it could bring something of value in return.

Personally I'd rather see a continuous retooling process in an attempt to hit something vs sucking just so we get another pick in a year or two that might turn into something a year or two after that.

It's hard to watch a game and think "man that unknown player we might draft in 2027 is really going to be special"

Me too. We looking at a lineup of Giddey, Jalen Green, Matas, Kuminga, Smith, even a Pat will and Ayo comeback. We'd have a lot of young guys right here with a lot of potential to root for. We'd have 5 starters under 25. Most are probably not near their ceilings yet.

[WesPeace]

Yeah, I think we had a disconnect. There are very few players I'm giving up picks for. Bane I'd considered because of his age, contract length etc but that's gone. I believe highly Jaylen Brown can be a top 10 player. He very well may show that this year with the Celtics, but it will be too late for us then.

Expirings, Coby and Portland pick have been the bulk of my trade proposals and that's because I don't believe in letting contracts expire. I think we could use those assets to get better long term pieces than say PG13 and #3. Let's be real, they're going to want pick 12. Taking on that much money to move up 9 spots in a draft where there's not even a consensus third best player is just gambling to me.

I think we're in a GREAT place to make value moves without worrying so much about fit and permanent players. A lot of teams are cap needy. Like the Nets are not using their cap space in free agency and they're hoping to stack assets thru being a third team.

Would like us to enter summer 2026 with Giddey ($25-$30 mill), Matas ($5 mill), Tier two Coby replacement ($12-30 mill) and hopefully another tier 2 ($20-$40 mill) plus our 2025 rookie and 2026 rookie.

Example (Just an example, don't say they can't happen)
Maybe Coby plus expiring traded for Tier two coby replacement. Coby sent to Dallas for extended Gafford and a pick. He's only 27, PER 24 last year, will be cheaper to extend than Coby. Maybe $20 mill, or around half.

Vucevic, Ball and Portland pick for second Tier two replacement) Kuminga ($25 mill), Moody 12 mill

I still have the same number of picks, plus my rookies, but I have 2 tier two pieces in 2026 I can send out other than Giddey and Matas. I'm not looking for guys to stay forever, unless we do the Jaylen Brown one.

They could be tier 2, tier 3, but I think they're more valuable next summer than our pieces that we're sending out

I agree with you that they shouldn't let the expiring contacts expire, but think they should use them to take on salary and get future picks in the process (OKC style...or what Charlotte has done with Josh Green/Grant Williams).

I have my doubts that Coby, the Portland pick and expiring contract would bring back much in a trade. Coby + expiring contracts for Gafford and a pick...that might be okay depending on the pick. The Bulls would lose a lot of offense without Coby, but I've often though that AK should think about the teams future more than the the immediate present.

Kuminga I'm not sure about. Why isn't he doing better? Why does GSW want to trade him? I said this in another post, but I might do it if it's PW for Kuminga straight up. I'd hate to get Kuminga and then if he doesn't work out the Bulls now have two duds on the roster (PW and Kuminga...of course they could also improve and it works out).

I changed it. Coby and Collins now go for Jalen Green ($33 mill) as third part in the Durant trade. So Green and Kuminga are my new young players/trade pieces. I'd be perfectly fine moving Kuminga on . Green too. If they work out, great! Young guys, decent contracts, great potential. If not, young tier 2 trade pieces on pretty good deals.

Giddey, Ayo, Carter
Green, Huerter, terry
Matas, Williams, Phillips
Kuminga, Noa Essengue
Smith, FA center, 2nd rd pick

Ride out the year, see how everybody fits, let's Giddey and Matas, all the young guys show what they have, everybody's locked up and you have a ton of options in the summer. Would say OKC adding a guy who would have been considered tier 2 at best at the time thru trade, SGA, has way more to do with their success than having a ton of draft picks.

You want to take on Bulls two high maintenance odd characters?? Not just one huh

Green and Kuminga, should be HARD full stop NO

[Dan Z]

Of course I think the Bulls should get the best deal they can. I'm a fan of the team and want them to do well.

If they trade for a 2nd tier star, or even a star, it won't be for expiring contracts only. The other team will ask for assets...Matas, picks...whatever that is.

I'd rather not give up future picks for someone like Sabonis. He's better than Vucevic, but it would feel like the Vuc trade 2.0.

Yeah, I think we had a disconnect. There are very few players I'm giving up picks for. Bane I'd considered because of his age, contract length etc but that's gone. I believe highly Jaylen Brown can be a top 10 player. He very well may show that this year with the Celtics, but it will be too late for us then.

Expirings, Coby and Portland pick have been the bulk of my trade proposals and that's because I don't believe in letting contracts expire. I think we could use those assets to get better long term pieces than say PG13 and #3. Let's be real, they're going to want pick 12. Taking on that much money to move up 9 spots in a draft where there's not even a consensus third best player is just gambling to me.

I think we're in a GREAT place to make value moves without worrying so much about fit and permanent players. A lot of teams are cap needy. Like the Nets are not using their cap space in free agency and they're hoping to stack assets thru being a third team.

Would like us to enter summer 2026 with Giddey ($25-$30 mill), Matas ($5 mill), Tier two Coby replacement ($12-30 mill) and hopefully another tier 2 ($20-$40 mill) plus our 2025 rookie and 2026 rookie.

Example (Just an example, don't say they can't happen)
Maybe Coby plus expiring traded for Tier two coby replacement. Coby and Collins got to Rockets , we get Jalen Green ($33 mill) back as third part in Durant trade as in rumors.

Vucevic, Ball for second Tier two replacement) Kuminga ($25 mill), Moody 12 mill

I still have the same number of picks, plus my rookies, but I have 2 tier two pieces in 2026 I can send out other than Giddey and Matas. I'm not looking for guys to stay forever, unless we do the Jaylen Brown one.

They could be tier 2, tier 3, but I think they're more valuable next summer than our pieces that we're sending out

And I refuse to believe AK would pick the best player with pick 3. I saw what he did with pick 4. He's not drafting who you think. Y'all would be so mad when we take on PG13 and draft Derick McQueen or Maluach, lmao! I'm trying to save you some heartache!

"
Vucevic, Ball for second Tier two replacement) "

Looking at that package, and possibly thr Portland pick actually doesn't look awful to me, it's actually a viable offer to a team with holes or a bench to round off. It's seems like it could bring something of value in return.

Personally I'd rather see a continuous retooling process in an attempt to hit something vs sucking just so we get another pick in a year or two that might turn into something a year or two after that.

It's hard to watch a game and think "man that unknown player we might draft in 2027 is really going to be special"

Nobody watches a game and thinks about a player far into the future (who hasn't been drafted yet) because we have no idea who that is or if that will happen.

However, someone like Kuminga is 22 years old and has been in the league for 4 years. He hasn't proven to be a winning player and right now the Warriors seem to be looking to sign and trade him. Why? This isn't the same situation as Giddey (who didn't want to go to the bench).

It's possible that Kuminga improves, but it's also possible that he doesn't and that the Bulls are then stuck with two duds (PW and Kuminga). That would be awful for the teams future.

As for drafting, when a team is rebuilding it's important to get the best picks you can (obviously). Even OKC had a bad year that got them the #2 pick (Chet).

[Infinity2152]

OKC's best player, the MVP, they got thru a trade. Having a bunch of draft picks didn't make that team, having a Tier 2 player like PG13 in the first place enabled them to get SGA and all those picks. Not having expiring contracts. There's a chance Kuminga and Green are duds, all Green did was average 21, 5 and 3 but he wasn't crazy efficient at 22 yrs old, ooh! Much more likely whoever gets drafted at 5 is better, right? Little chance a rookie is a dud, vs a guy who's already putting up numbers against NBA players.

You keep missing the point. The assets were talking about trading, mostly expirings. Getting tier two players instead of letting them expire lets us preserve that player value, rather than just having cap space. You're not going to convince me if we want to make a power move next summer, it would be better to have cap space from expired Coby and Vucevic than having Green and Kuminga as trade pieces. Like they're immediately going to become untradeable. Market seems to indicate Kuminga's going to have to sign a relative bargain contract in the first place.

At their age, they're far more likely to improve than get worse, but hey, what if they completely regress or stop getting better!

It's hilarious! Only way OKC built that team was because they had a tier 2 player THAT WASN"T EXPIRING in PG13 to trade, and the argument is we shouldn't have any tier 2 players to trade because we can never do something smart like that.

[Dez]

Paul George wasn't a tier 2 star (He was much better)when they got him and SGA was a coveted younger player plus the draft picks is a package the Bulls do not have anything close to.

You basically want to trade the middling assets we have for something that caps us out as first round fodder/second round no-hoper with no assets to improve.

[Infinity2152]

Paul George wasn't a tier 2 star (He was much better)when they got him and SGA was a coveted younger player plus the draft picks is a package the Bulls do not have anything close to.

You basically want to trade the middling assets we have for something that caps us out as first round fodder/second round no-hoper with no assets to improve.

Okay, who do you consider Tier 1 stars? I'll give you that he's much higher tier than Kuminga or Green would probably be. SGA was coming off a 11 pt, 3asst, 3rb season in 27 minutes, let's not rewrite history. They don't give up all those picks if he was considered even close to as valuable as George. The principle still applies. You want draft picks, you could probably trade Kuminga or Green on actual locked up contracts next summer for far more than you get for expiring Vucevic, White and Ball right now. Lots of teams would have cap space to easily absorb their contracts too. Maybe 2-3 firsts apiece if they have good seasons, but 2 probably wouldn't be hard. Guys that age should be appreciating assets. It's just wrong to assume every young player that signs a contract is going to get worse. Not saying you're doing that, but this "guys could be duds" stuff is crazy. Any rookie could be a dud. The usual progression is to get better. Or maybe, these young players a lot of people think have high potential could actually live up to that potential, and we have great young players on great deals.

Why do people keep assuming every young player we get is likely to fail except unknown future draft superstar prospects?

And you're talking about first round fodder. Y'all keep saying that. What move do we make to not be first round fodder? You don't think adding PG13 and whoever at pick 3, while giving up our number 12 pick, starting center, backup center, backup PG, that team's not first round fodder? What is that team's level, pray tell?

[Dan Z]

Paul George wasn't a tier 2 star (He was much better)when they got him and SGA was a coveted younger player plus the draft picks is a package the Bulls do not have anything close to.

You basically want to trade the middling assets we have for something that caps us out as first round fodder/second round no-hoper with no assets to improve.

Okay, who do you consider Tier 1 stars? I'll give you that he's much higher tier than Kuminga or Green would probably be. SGA was coming off a 11 pt, 3asst, 3rb season in 27 minutes, let's not rewrite history. They don't give up all those picks if he was considered even close to as valuable as George. The principle still applies. You want draft picks, you could probably trade Kuminga or Green on actual locked up contracts next summer for far more than you get for expiring Vucevic, White and Ball right now. Lots of teams would have cap space to easily absorb their contracts too. Maybe 2-3 firsts apiece if they have good seasons, but 2 probably wouldn't be hard. Guys that age should be appreciating assets. It's just wrong to assume every young player that signs a contract is going to get worse. Not saying you're doing that, but this "guys could be duds" stuff is crazy. Any rookie could be a dud. The usual progression is to get better. Or maybe, these young players a lot of people think have high potential could actually live up to that potential, and we have great young players on great deals.

Why do people keep assuming every young player we get is likely to fail except unknown future draft superstar prospects?

If Green and Kuminga have a bad season on the Bulls then nobody will want to trade for them.

If they have a good season then why would the Bulls trade them?

[Infinity2152]

Paul George wasn't a tier 2 star (He was much better)when they got him and SGA was a coveted younger player plus the draft picks is a package the Bulls do not have anything close to.

You basically want to trade the middling assets we have for something that caps us out as first round fodder/second round no-hoper with no assets to improve.

Okay, who do you consider Tier 1 stars? I'll give you that he's much higher tier than Kuminga or Green would probably be. SGA was coming off a 11 pt, 3asst, 3rb season in 27 minutes, let's not rewrite history. They don't give up all those picks if he was considered even close to as valuable as George. The principle still applies. You want draft picks, you could probably trade Kuminga or Green on actual locked up contracts next summer for far more than you get for expiring Vucevic, White and Ball right now. Lots of teams would have cap space to easily absorb their contracts too. Maybe 2-3 firsts apiece if they have good seasons, but 2 probably wouldn't be hard. Guys that age should be appreciating assets. It's just wrong to assume every young player that signs a contract is going to get worse. Not saying you're doing that, but this "guys could be duds" stuff is crazy. Any rookie could be a dud. The usual progression is to get better. Or maybe, these young players a lot of people think have high potential could actually live up to that potential, and we have great young players on great deals.

Why do people keep assuming every young player we get is likely to fail except unknown future draft superstar prospects?

If Green and Kuminga have a bad season on the Bulls then nobody will want to trade for them.

If they have a good season then why would the Bulls trade them?

People trade for players that had bad seasons every year. We just added Collins and Huerter having bad seasons, good move. Giddey had a bad season before, OKC got Caruso for him, who's supposedly worth 50 picks. You could say the same thing about every player in the league. If he has a bad season, he's worth less. You can still trade them and get value for them.

We literally just added a player (Giddey) who had a "bad" season before who's relatively the same level as Kuminga and Green. Looks like a star. And again, why would they have bad seasons? They would both get starting positions with a passing PG who's going to look for them. Matas is versatile, seems like they'd be set up to be successful as much as most places. We still need a defensive center, but that has nothing to do with them.

If they have a good season, why would the Bulls trade them? We dont have too but for the same reason we traded Caruso after his value rose. A Jalen Green and/or Kuminga coming off a great season gets you much closer to that star trade. NOW you have somebody valuable that you're willing to send out. Or Matas or Giddey could go in the star trade, either way you still have two young pieces left.

No rush though. If they have a good season, we're likely a good looking, young team getting better with cap space, I'm good with that for now. You don't just jump to top tier contender.

[Dan Z]

Okay, who do you consider Tier 1 stars? I'll give you that he's much higher tier than Kuminga or Green would probably be. SGA was coming off a 11 pt, 3asst, 3rb season in 27 minutes, let's not rewrite history. They don't give up all those picks if he was considered even close to as valuable as George. The principle still applies. You want draft picks, you could probably trade Kuminga or Green on actual locked up contracts next summer for far more than you get for expiring Vucevic, White and Ball right now. Lots of teams would have cap space to easily absorb their contracts too. Maybe 2-3 firsts apiece if they have good seasons, but 2 probably wouldn't be hard. Guys that age should be appreciating assets. It's just wrong to assume every young player that signs a contract is going to get worse. Not saying you're doing that, but this "guys could be duds" stuff is crazy. Any rookie could be a dud. The usual progression is to get better. Or maybe, these young players a lot of people think have high potential could actually live up to that potential, and we have great young players on great deals.

Why do people keep assuming every young player we get is likely to fail except unknown future draft superstar prospects?

If Green and Kuminga have a bad season on the Bulls then nobody will want to trade for them.

If they have a good season then why would the Bulls trade them?

People trade for players that had bad seasons every year. We just added Collins and Huerter having bad seasons, good move. Giddey had a bad season before, OKC got Caruso for him, who's supposedly worth 50 picks. You could say the same thing about every player in the league. If he has a bad season, he's worth less. You can still trade them and get value for them.

We literally just added a player (Giddey) who had a "bad" season before who's relatively the same level as Kuminga and Green. Looks like a star. And again, why would they have bad seasons? They would both get starting positions with a passing PG who's going to look for them. Matas is versatile, seems like they'd be set up to be successful as much as most places. We still need a defensive center, but that has nothing to do with them.

If they have a good season, why would the Bulls trade them? We dont have too but for the same reason we traded Caruso after his value rose. A Jalen Green and/or Kuminga coming off a great season gets you much closer to that star trade. NOW you have somebody valuable that you're willing to send out. Or Matas or Giddey could go in the star trade, either way you still have two young pieces left.

You framed it as if the Bulls would trade for Green/Kuminga and flip them later for more assets. If they trade for either player I'd hope that it's because they believe in them.

Giddey had a down year, but he was a 21 year old player who had shown promise during his three year career.

Jalen Green improved this year, but didn't do well in the playoffs. Jonathan Kuminga hasn't improved his shooting and doesn't really fit what the Warriors are doing.

Generally teams don't trade 22/23 year old players with potential (Giddey was an exception...they wanted to bench him and he said no so they traded him).

One reason why Green is in trade talks is because Houston is interested in Durant (at least that's the rumor). Kuminga...I have no idea. If he was better then the Warriors would just re-sign him.

Both players have flaws and they might improve if they were traded here, but it's also possible that they'd continue to have issues and then the Bulls are stuck with them.

I wouldn't take a chance on both of them and If I did it (but only for one) I'd probably want to send out PW in the deal. I'd also be hesitant not to trade a pick because the Bulls are still looking for their franchise player.

[GuardianEnzo]

I keep going back to Zion as the one realistic path to break the cycle of play-in mediocrity. He's a true impact star who would be gettable for our meager assets because he has huge flaws - injuries, possible character issues, et al. It would be an enormous gamble. But a motivated and healthy Zion is leagues better than anyone on our roster. He's leagues better than anyone we're likely to get at #12. If he actually is available I don't see how you can't at least consider it. Better organizations with better plans and better assets could shy away, but we don't have that luxury.

[Donkedave]

Nobody thinks that, most people know that the Bulls need talent badly and this is a good way to do it.

The more picks you have, the more chance to hit on a star and that's the only way the Bulls can add one.

The Bulls don't have the assets to get a franchise player, a bunch of middling talent and expiring contracts aren't doing it.

Not having the assets to get a franchise player? How did Cleveland get Donovan Mitchell? FA. How did New York get Brunson (FA), or basically any star that is there now (trade)? OKC got SGA and half the team for PG13. Is it possible to get a franchise player that's not valued as a franchise player? I'd say our assets are better than Anthony Davis and a first, and they got Luka for that. Most of these franchise players aren't even with the teams that drafted them. Way more teams have stars they did not draft than stars they did. How many teams has Bron been on? Durant? Harden? Westbrook? Top stars in the league.

And trading for PG13 is NOT the only way to add a pick, lol. We could trade a future pick and add a pick. We could likely trade Coby alone and get a pick in this draft. Might be able to trade Ball for a late pick. Might be the only way to add pick 3. Who do you think AK picks at 3 by the way, that's worth us screwing our cap for three years and not being able to sign $60 mill worth FA? Really think he drafts VJ or Tre Johnson with Coby on the team? Really?

The Cavs traded Collins Sexton, Lauri Markkanen, Ochai Agbaji, picks (2025, 2027, and 2028) plus two swaps (2026 and 2029) for Donovan Mitchell.

They did so because after the trade they still have a good team (Garland, Allen, Mobley, etc.).

The Bulls have assets to do a trade like this? For who?

The Luka trade is an outlier and not worth mentioning as an example. On top of that the Bulls don't have an Anthony Davis level player to trade.

I'm not suggesting that the Bulls should go after PG, but I don't think they have assets to make a trade for a star. Maybe a 2nd tier guy like Sabonis, but I don't think they should.

Sabonis is just a more expensive Vuch, so Vuch is a tier 2 player right!?

[Infinity2152]

If Green and Kuminga have a bad season on the Bulls then nobody will want to trade for them.

If they have a good season then why would the Bulls trade them?

People trade for players that had bad seasons every year. We just added Collins and Huerter having bad seasons, good move. Giddey had a bad season before, OKC got Caruso for him, who's supposedly worth 50 picks. You could say the same thing about every player in the league. If he has a bad season, he's worth less. You can still trade them and get value for them.

We literally just added a player (Giddey) who had a "bad" season before who's relatively the same level as Kuminga and Green. Looks like a star. And again, why would they have bad seasons? They would both get starting positions with a passing PG who's going to look for them. Matas is versatile, seems like they'd be set up to be successful as much as most places. We still need a defensive center, but that has nothing to do with them.

If they have a good season, why would the Bulls trade them? We dont have too but for the same reason we traded Caruso after his value rose. A Jalen Green and/or Kuminga coming off a great season gets you much closer to that star trade. NOW you have somebody valuable that you're willing to send out. Or Matas or Giddey could go in the star trade, either way you still have two young pieces left.

You framed it as if the Bulls would trade for Green/Kuminga and flip them later for more assets. If they trade for either player I'd hope that it's because they believe in them.

Giddey had a down year, but he was a 21 year old player who had shown promise during his three year career.

Jalen Green improved this year, but didn't do well in the playoffs. Jonathan Kuminga hasn't improved his shooting and doesn't really fit what the Warriors are doing.

Generally teams don't trade 22/23 year old players with potential (Giddey was an exception...they wanted to bench him and he said no so they traded him).

One reason why Green is in trade talks is because Houston is interested in Durant (at least that's the rumor). Kuminga...I have no idea. If he was better then the Warriors would just re-sign him.

Both players have flaws and they might improve if they were traded here, but it's also possible that they'd continue to have issues and then the Bulls are stuck with them.

I wouldn't take a chance on both of them and If I did it (but only for one) I'd probably want to send out PW in the deal. I'd also be hesitant not to trade a pick because the Bulls are still looking for their franchise player.

Yes, that's kind of exactly what I'm framing it as. Any new piece, and including Matas and Giddey, are expendable if need be. Giddey's not an exception if we're talking about two similar age players with potential right now on the block (Green and Kuminga).

That's the difference with other teams. They'll acquire guys, like Jrue Holiday, Chris Paul, even Sabonis and flip them in trades if it improves the team. I know exactly why Green is in trade talks, and Kuminga as well. That's my point, other teams have motivations other than just getting more talent or picks in a particular trade.

We haven't drafted a franchise player in a lot of years. We've had a lot of lottery picks. Let's call luck into a top pick and get a superstar plan B. You draft a superstar and your cap's locked up for 3 years, what do you put around him? Nobody was calling SGA, Tyrese Haliburton definite future stars draft night, they were picked right around where Matas was. The reason we don't have Haliburton is not because we didn't have a top pick. We did.

[sco]

I agree with you that they shouldn't let the expiring contacts expire, but think they should use them to take on salary and get future picks in the process (OKC style...or what Charlotte has done with Josh Green/Grant Williams).

I have my doubts that Coby, the Portland pick and expiring contract would bring back much in a trade. Coby + expiring contracts for Gafford and a pick...that might be okay depending on the pick. The Bulls would lose a lot of offense without Coby, but I've often though that AK should think about the teams future more than the the immediate present.

Kuminga I'm not sure about. Why isn't he doing better? Why does GSW want to trade him? I said this in another post, but I might do it if it's PW for Kuminga straight up. I'd hate to get Kuminga and then if he doesn't work out the Bulls now have two duds on the roster (PW and Kuminga...of course they could also improve and it works out).

I changed it. Coby and Collins now go for Jalen Green ($33 mill) as third part in the Durant trade. So Green and Kuminga are my new young players/trade pieces. I'd be perfectly fine moving Kuminga on . Green too. If they work out, great! Young guys, decent contracts, great potential. If not, young tier 2 trade pieces on pretty good deals.

Giddey, Ayo, Carter
Green, Huerter, terry
Matas, Williams, Phillips
Kuminga, Noa Essengue
Smith, FA center, 2nd rd pick

Ride out the year, see how everybody fits, let's Giddey and Matas, all the young guys show what they have, everybody's locked up and you have a ton of options in the summer. Would say OKC adding a guy who would have been considered tier 2 at best at the time thru trade, SGA, has way more to do with their success than having a ton of draft picks.

You want to take on Bulls two high maintenance odd characters?? Not just one huh

Green and Kuminga, should be HARD full stop NO

I agree with the sentiment that finding good players through trade and FA should focus on guys who played well in spot situations behind established starters. SGA is a good example. Hartenstein was another. And Kuminga could be considered one of those too.

That said, I disagree with the tier 2 concept as discussed. I feel like there are a bunch of guys who have great offensive seasons statistically for team...often teams without a true #1, and they make an ASG or two. Those guys are often so flawed (often no defense or 3pt shot) that their team is willing to trade them (which shouldn't be the case with young allstars). Those are the guys discussed as the available tier 2 guys. I am very against those guys. Vuc was one. You could argue that Demar was one. Back to Kuminga, he strikes me as one.

Green is a tougher assessment. He has shown improvement over the years. He may have more upside potential and better defensive potential than Coby. If we have a good deal in place for Coby and the deal would cost too much for Green, I might consider it, but I doubt both would be the case.

If I'm focused on improving this offseason, I want find (either "hiding" on our roster in underused role or via draft or trade) 3 important guys. A rim runner/protector C, a POA defender, and a 6th man bench scorer. I want see how our key 3 perform with the right supporting cast before we make any big moves. I could argue that Smith could do well for us in that 1st role, A combo of Lonzo/Ayo in the second, and (if Billy had the brains/balls) Vuc could be a very good 6th man.

[Infinity2152]

Again, Kuminga and Green are EXAMPLES of young tier two players we should target with our expiring contracts. Green is already rumored to us in the Durant trade, it may not happen but it could. Suns are not taking Green's contract (another $33 mill at SG), there's a need where we end up with the younger, possibly better player for two expiring players. Said before, I'm not sure about Kuminga as a long term player either. I do think he very likely gets me more in a trade than $25 mill in cap space. It's not logical to expect every 22 year old player to be worse the next year.

Simple fact, 2 22-23 year old players who average 16-20 pts or so in 2025 are likely to have much more value summer 2026 than the equivalent amount of cap space. People keep focusing on the individual players and their long term fit. Then they automatically assume, "What if it's a bad fit" instead of "What if it's a great fit?". Y'all are acting like Kuminga and Green are coming off Pat Will seasons and show that level of growth, lol. I don't care about this season, except for growth for Matas and Giddey and the rest, seeing what we have in the young guys here now.

I'm suggesting young players (last time we saw each they were scoring like 20pts/gm) that should increase in value for expirings mostly and people are pushing back. And these young guys could actually fit very well!! What do you need, a crystal ball that shows the Bulls record next year with them? There's no way to know without doing it. Am I suggesting guys who should be BAD fits? Is there a thought Kuminga would instantly become a negative contract at $25 mill? Keep seeing Pat comparisons, was Pat putting up 20 pts games to finish the season, and held back from doing the same all season because the coach didn't play him? Maybe Jalen Smith must suck because Billy didn't play him. Giddey sucked because OKC brought him off the bench. Don't get Bol Bol, his coach isn't playing him so he must be bad.

We're taking chances everyday in the NBA. And the draft is the biggest crapshoot of all, but somehow in here it's the likeliest way to get a franchise player. Although 70% of franchise players leave the team they were drafted by anyway, especially nowadays. And most won't win rings until they're 25, 26, 27, around the time a lot leave. Especially the number 1 and 2 pick guys, lol.

Fun fact, Kyrie is the only number 1 pick in the last 20 years to win a ring with the team that drafted him, and he was carried by returning FA Lebron, not the main guy. If Holgrem wins one this year, he'll be the first #2 pick in 20 years, and he's being carried by a number 11 pick acquired thru trade.

[Guru]

I keep returning to Nick Claxton. What do you think it would take to get him?

[MrSparkle]

IMO there’s a foolish appeal to Kuminga, Green, but end of the day, these B-tier iso guys end up ruining the flow of whatever concept AK and Billy claim to be pursuing.

Ultimately, if they had star power, I don’t think their respective teams would just give them up. More than anything, I just think they’ll be a waste of salary and positional minutes.

Our offense looked better when we ran shooters around Giddey (Huerter, Coby, Vuc, Matas finding better rhythm). Iso mid scorers just seem like the exact player to avoid, unless some incredible talent falls into their lap… whose skill compensates for the bad fit (Queen comes to mind, who would be a draft drop “freebie” on rookie scale money). Basically throwing a hail mary that his post impact will be so good that you can justify playing him, while praying for 3Ps, conditioning and defense to come around. Even then, this might be a short-sighted move; if his culture doesn’t fit the Bulls’ plans, it’s just gonna suck all over again. It takes incredible talent to overcome fit/culture.

Not so fun getting a long term $30M player with a certain ceiling (non-superstar, fringe all/star) and hoping his issues are fixed. Honestly already have that with Giddey and Coby.

There are plenty of trades for the Bulls to make. They’re just going to have to be more intelligent than the ones you find when you google “young NBA players on the trade block.”

[Infinity2152]

IMO there’s a foolish appeal to Kuminga, Green, but end of the day, these B-tier iso guys end up ruining the flow of whatever concept AK and Billy claim to be pursuing.

Ultimately, if they had star power, I don’t think their respective teams would just give them up. More than anything, I just think they’ll be a waste of salary and positional minutes.

Our offense looked better when we ran shooters around Giddey (Huerter, Coby, Vuc, Matas finding better rhythm). Iso mid scorers just seem like the exact player to avoid, unless some incredible talent falls into their lap… whose skill compensates for the bad fit (Queen comes to mind, who would be a draft drop “freebie” on rookie scale money). Basically throwing a hail mary that his post impact will be so good that you can justify playing him, while praying for 3Ps, conditioning and defense to come around.

Not so fun getting a long term $30M player with a certain ceiling (non-superstar, fringe all/star) and hoping his issues are fixed. Honestly already have that with Giddey and Coby.

There are plenty of trades for the Bulls to make. They’re just going to have to be more intelligent than the ones you find when you google “young NBA players on the trade block.”

The reason the Rockets would trade Green is to get Kevin Durant. he's in the Durant offer already. Kuminga has contract issues and the Warriors cap situation and timeframe is very different from ours. We're talking about giving up Vucevic or Pat Will for Kuminga basically, big risk we lose there.

Name some of these more intelligent "plenty of not mentioned trades" we should do. What I keep hearing is we should do nothing, or somehow turn all these expirings into picks taking bad contracts. Because it's not bad to take "bad" contracts. Wild you think you see the ceiling for 22 year olds who haven't even been in the lead position for a season yet.

Those guys don't have to be long term. Everybody is tradeable assets. These draft picks people want come with high risk of never hitting NBA Allstar, the risk is higher than it is for Green or Kuminga. Very few of these guys are you going to say, I guarantee he's going to be a 20+pt efficient scorer at 22.

Whatever people think of them, they've proven they can score and compete at the NBA level. That's their floor.

[WesPeace]

I rather pay White 25M than Green 33-36M?!