2018 Draft Thread #6

[TheSuzerain]

I get what the Front Office saw in Snell. He has obvious tools. But he was frighteningly unproductive in the Mountain West conference as a Junior to be taken in the first round.

Certainly don't think he can be called a bust though. He's an adequate rotation player which is a decent grab at 1.20.

Mikal Bridges has similar tools to Snell but even better versions. Mikal's college production is also elite. He's just a far better prospect.

[League Circles]

I get what the Front Office saw in Snell. He has obvious tools. But he was frighteningly unproductive in the Mountain West conference as a Junior to be taken in the first round.

Certainly don't think he can be called a bust though. He's an adequate rotation player which is a decent grab at 1.20.

Hell, I wouldn't mind having Tony back if we get Doncic. Snell is sort of a quintessential 3 and D guy. Offers nothing else, but 3 and D is super crucial next to guys like Doncic running an offense.

[DanTown8587]

I get what the Front Office saw in Snell. He has obvious tools. But he was frighteningly unproductive in the Mountain West conference as a Junior to be taken in the first round.

Certainly don't think he can be called a bust though. He's an adequate rotation player which is a decent grab at 1.20.

The problem I had with Snell was the cost to acquire him. There's just no argument to be made he's a better prospect than the various guys who went around that pick (THJ, Bullock, Roberson) and that's not including the three young bigs the Bulls could have had (Gobert, Dieng, Plumlee). Would have been fine with him early second or something but at 20, that's simply too high considering the issues with him were "doesn't bring it every night, questionable motor" and that's in the MWC.

[bearadonisdna]

I get what the Front Office saw in Snell. He has obvious tools. But he was frighteningly unproductive in the Mountain West conference as a Junior to be taken in the first round.

Certainly don't think he can be called a bust though. He's an adequate rotation player which is a decent grab at 1.20.

The problem I had with Snell was the cost to acquire him. There's just no argument to be made he's a better prospect than the various guys who went around that pick (THJ, Bullock, Roberson) and that's not including the three young bigs the Bulls could have had (Gobert, Dieng, Plumlee). Would have been fine with him early second or something but at 20, that's simply too high considering the issues with him were "doesn't bring it every night, questionable motor" and that's in the MWC.

Man Idk how they could have passed on plumlee at 20.
The dude was 17 and 10 and posts a 17 PER for his nba career.

I remember some of the conversations back then. Semantics aside mostly the entire board had Bullocks and THJ as the top 2 wings at that draft slot.
Not to mention i loved Dieng because i rooted for louisville in the tourney.
Gobert was projected to go high lottery at some point but had a aaron rodgers like free fall

[Lauri_Legend]

I get what the Front Office saw in Snell. He has obvious tools. But he was frighteningly unproductive in the Mountain West conference as a Junior to be taken in the first round.

Certainly don't think he can be called a bust though. He's an adequate rotation player which is a decent grab at 1.20.

Hell, I wouldn't mind having Tony back if we get Doncic. Snell is sort of a quintessential 3 and D guy. Offers nothing else, but 3 and D is super crucial next to guys like Doncic running an offense.

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

[Dresden]

I get what the Front Office saw in Snell. He has obvious tools. But he was frighteningly unproductive in the Mountain West conference as a Junior to be taken in the first round.

Certainly don't think he can be called a bust though. He's an adequate rotation player which is a decent grab at 1.20.

Hell, I wouldn't mind having Tony back if we get Doncic. Snell is sort of a quintessential 3 and D guy. Offers nothing else, but 3 and D is super crucial next to guys like Doncic running an offense.

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

[Lauri_Legend]

Hell, I wouldn't mind having Tony back if we get Doncic. Snell is sort of a quintessential 3 and D guy. Offers nothing else, but 3 and D is super crucial next to guys like Doncic running an offense.

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

How about this loss:

We gave away Spencer Dinwiddie since we acquired MCW...only to find out MCW has no real game and let him walk the following summer while Dinwiddie is having a terrific season. Oh, and then Snell shot 41% from 3s last season and now again this season. Would be a nice piece for our team.

[biggestbullsfan]

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

How about this loss:

We gave away Spencer Dinwiddie since we acquired MCW...only to find out MCW has no real game and let him walk the following summer while Dinwiddie is having a terrific season. Oh, and then Snell shot 41% from 3s last season and now again this season. Would be a nice piece for our team.

Some players need a change of scenery or atmosphere to get better. MCW could have gone elsewhere and produced possibly. ITs all about opportunity.

[RememberLu]

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

How about this loss:

We gave away Spencer Dinwiddie since we acquired MCW...only to find out MCW has no real game and let him walk the following summer while Dinwiddie is having a terrific season. Oh, and then Snell shot 41% from 3s last season and now again this season. Would be a nice piece for our team.

I'd take Snell over Justin Holiday. Neither do much aside from hitting 3's at a good rate. At least Snell is younger

[kristov]

Some great work at The Stepien on the shot chart tool.
https://www.thestepien.com/

3P data ... on only NBA 3's.

Player : NBA 3P% : NBA 3P Attempts : % Made Assisted

Zhaire: 46.6% (15) 71% assisted
Jaren: 44.8% (58) 92% assisted
Kevin Knox: 39.1% (97) 92% assisted
Mikal: 38.9% (131) 94% assisted
Wendell: 38% (21) 100% assisted
Miles: 35.6% (115) 90% assisted
Young: 35.5% (228) 17% assisted
Sexton: 34.0% (91) 37% assisted
Bamba: 32% (25) 75% assisted
Lonnie: 30.8% (107) 60% assisted
Shai: 28.5% (28) 87% assisted
Ayton: 17.6% (17) 100% assisted

Most surprised at how accurate Knox was from the NBA 3.

I've watched quite a few of michigan state games and I never noticed JJJ taking deep 3s let alone 60% of them being nba 3 pointers. I went back and watched a few highlights and confirmed my recollection so I wouldn't put much stock in this nba 3 point data.

[League Circles]

Hell, I wouldn't mind having Tony back if we get Doncic. Snell is sort of a quintessential 3 and D guy. Offers nothing else, but 3 and D is super crucial next to guys like Doncic running an offense.

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

He's a highly efficient shooter (albeit on low volume) and good defender. Those guys are quite valuable as the 4th or 5th option in a unit IMO.

[Dresden]

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

How about this loss:

We gave away Spencer Dinwiddie since we acquired MCW...only to find out MCW has no real game and let him walk the following summer while Dinwiddie is having a terrific season. Oh, and then Snell shot 41% from 3s last season and now again this season. Would be a nice piece for our team.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same player- do you mean Tony Snell of the Bucks, who posted a staggering 8.5 PER this season? You want him back? Denzel Valentine has a better DBPM than Snell does as well.

[bearadonisdna]

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

How about this loss:

We gave away Spencer Dinwiddie since we acquired MCW...only to find out MCW has no real game and let him walk the following summer while Dinwiddie is having a terrific season. Oh, and then Snell shot 41% from 3s last season and now again this season. Would be a nice piece for our team.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same player- do you mean Tony Snell of the Bucks, who posted a staggering 8.5 PER this season? You want him back? Denzel Valentine has a better DBPM than Snell does as well.

Yeah imo snells 0-2-0 statline production has been replaced by zipser already.

[TheSuzerain]

Crazy how we lost the Snell trade.

I don't consider that much of a loss at all. We needed a pg badly, and took a flyer on MCW. Snell was doing nothing here, and he's not doing much in MIL either.

He's a highly efficient shooter (albeit on low volume) and good defender. Those guys are quite valuable as the 4th or 5th option in a unit IMO.

Yeah but he pushes the low usage thing beyond the boundaries of good taste.

He's not a good player. He's serviceable.

[CoreyVillains]

That profile isn't that rare.

Snell - 6'7 with 6'11
Covington - 6'7.5 with 7'2
Porter - 6'8.5" with 7'1
Roberson - 6'7 with 6'11

I think he'll be a good defender but he won't be lock down and he won't be a great scorer because I don't think he has the dribble game to do it. If you want to take a risk he's the next underdeveloped wing who's game would greatly transform if they improve their dribbling that's one argument to make but he really doesn't have the vertical game or the frame that lends you to believe he can finish at or near the rim consistently enough to be a NBA guy that can help an offense.

Mikal is an elite finisher at the rim and his calling card his entire college career has been as a lockdown defender. I think you should look into him a bit more because it doesn't seem like you know too much about him besides his name. To your point on the player profiles of the four above players not being rare, I'm not sure what you're point is? Three of the players you chose to highlight make their teams wayyyy better when they are on the court. Snell would too if he wasn't so passive as a player. Mikal is a great NBA basketball prospect.

I guess the question is what career trajectory do you see for him in terms of future role and fit? I think he's a Danny Green type and I don't know if I'd take Green for this team considering their needs.

We probably shouldn’t complain about acquiring a Danny Green type at our current slot. Green has been a high impact player in NBA Finals games. With that said, I think Mikal is a better prospect than Green. He can do more things offensively. You mentioned in another post that Mikal can attack close outs; that’s something I anticipate him doing more than Green ever has. I also foresee him getting more points off of cuts than Green. Considering how well he finishes at the rim and his FT%, those two skills will help him be more than just a 3&D guy. He’s a gamer, so that’s where comparisons to guys like Snell end. He is going to be a really great pro. He has a high floor, but I think some people are underestimating his ceiling as well.

[CoreyVillains]

If Bamba is on the board, which at this point I highly doubt he will be, but he can change the identity of this team by himself. His play can dictate how good we can be defensively alone.

I'm unconvinced.

I think the value of rim-protecting defensive anchors is waning as there is a pretty obvious strategy to mitigating their effect by playing a stretch 5.

Bamba is a freak physically, and that might win out. But I certainly wouldn't draft the guy because we "need" a defensive anchor.

Meh, I think Gobert has shut that notion down. The key is finding guys that can protect the rim and handle a switch. Bamba will be able to do that.

[CoreyVillains]

It’s surprising how little you guys talk about Miles Bridges.
While my position in prefering him to Mikal is controversial (and quite fluid, to be honest) at this point, I think most people way underrate his combo of athleticism and shooting.
Yeah, yeah, Mikal is great (and I’d be pretty happy if we end up drafting him), and there’s a good chance that Carter will be solid for years to come, I don’t think you can deny that Miles has a bigger upside.

What does he do well at an NBA level? What is going to transfer? He is super raw as an NBA prospect. He’s not a dead eye shooter right now, just a good college level shooter. He can’t create off the dribble. In an NBA offense do you want him to sit in the corner when he isn’t going to be the best shooter on your team to put there? He’s going to struggle with wings and bigs defensively bc his measurements suck and he doesn’t move well enough laterally. He’s a really good athlete. He’ll look great in transition and playing the baseline if he has a good point guard. Currently his NBA skill set is really lacking though.

[DanTown8587]

Mikal is an elite finisher at the rim and his calling card his entire college career has been as a lockdown defender. I think you should look into him a bit more because it doesn't seem like you know too much about him besides his name. To your point on the player profiles of the four above players not being rare, I'm not sure what you're point is? Three of the players you chose to highlight make their teams wayyyy better when they are on the court. Snell would too if he wasn't so passive as a player. Mikal is a great NBA basketball prospect.

I guess the question is what career trajectory do you see for him in terms of future role and fit? I think he's a Danny Green type and I don't know if I'd take Green for this team considering their needs.

We probably shouldn’t complain about acquiring a Danny Green type at our current slot. Green has been a high impact player in NBA Finals games. With that said, I think Mikal is a better prospect than Green. He can do more things offensively. You mentioned in another post that Mikal can attack close outs; that’s something I anticipate him doing more than Green ever has. I also foresee him getting more points off of cuts than Green. Considering how well he finishes at the rim and his FT%, those two skills will help him be more than just a 3&D guy. He’s a gamer, so that’s where comparisons to guys like Snell end. He is going to be a really great pro. He has a high floor, but I think some people are underestimating his ceiling as well.

People gotta stop with Snell; he was only brought up in a physical measurement comparison and at no point did I ever insinuate that Bridges plays or will play at the NBA level like Snell, a player who is incapable of doing nothing besides 3 and D that's created by others and against non-elite wings.

Getting back to Mikal, he'll be a solid pro but here he plays more three than two here and as a low volume guy incapable of running the offense, he does his job but he doesn't change the arc of this team. This is also a team that has a good defender at the PG so now it really doesn't matter how good Mikal is; teams will run one pick and get the matchup they want. This isn't the 90s or even the 00s when you could just put a guy on a scorer and he'd lock him down or guard him most of the night.

This team needs player(s) who are legitimate NBA fringe all-stars. I have no doubt that Bridges can go to a NBA team and set up home somewhere but that team isn't here, especially if the organization wants to keep Lavine.

I personally don't love Trae Young's game at the NBA level but I'd much rather the organization rolls the dice on Young than settling for Bridges. And the only way I'd love to gamble on Bridges' upside is if the organization is ready to move on from Zach and try and build a positionless/flexible lineup with Bridges at the 2/3, some guy at the 3/4, Lauri at the 4/5, etc.

[DanTown8587]

The Mikal Bridges move to me is trading Portis/Grant to Philly for their later first and a second, trying to find positionless guys like Jontay Porter and Kevin Knox alongside Bridges (need to see NO fall to the lotto) and then hoping you get lucky with an Aaron Holliday type in round two

Dunn/A. Holliday
Bridges/Valentine
Knox/J. Holliday
Lauri/Porter
Lopez

That's the hope for me, you switch everything defensively, everyone is active, no one wants to pound the ball for their offense, you can probably defend fairly well out of this and you can play up tempo and with ball movement. Of course you're banking on Knox being closer to his hype coming in to HS than his one year at Kentucky and you need Bridges to be closer to Gary Harris (capable third option) in terms of an offensive valve but that's fine. If this is the "don't get a top five pick" moves, I'm fine with that.

The other thing is you realistically have an abundance at positions so maybe in a year or two you package two of the young guys to get the next star that wants out for the wing.

[kodo]

It’s surprising how little you guys talk about Miles Bridges.
While my position in prefering him to Mikal is controversial (and quite fluid, to be honest) at this point, I think most people way underrate his combo of athleticism and shooting.
Yeah, yeah, Mikal is great (and I’d be pretty happy if we end up drafting him), and there’s a good chance that Carter will be solid for years to come, I don’t think you can deny that Miles has a bigger upside.

What does he do well at an NBA level? What is going to transfer? He is super raw as an NBA prospect. He’s not a dead eye shooter right now, just a good college level shooter. He can’t create off the dribble. In an NBA offense do you want him to sit in the corner when he isn’t going to be the best shooter on your team to put there? He’s going to struggle with wings and bigs defensively bc his measurements suck and he doesn’t move well enough laterally. He’s a really good athlete. He’ll look great in transition and playing the baseline if he has a good point guard. Currently his NBA skill set is really lacking though.

He's the 2nd highest 3P maker in the 1st round among wings after Mikal. 2.0 made per game, on very good 3P%. His 88% FT is also a strong indicator of future NBA shooting ability, where almost everyone else is a mid 70s FT shooter. Add on excellent vertical & solid frame, and great personality in terms of work ethic, competitiveness, values, relationship handling.

He's probably one of the best wing shooters in the 1st round at the moment. FT% is underrated vs 3P%, guys can have great 3P% from the college 3 and suck in the NBA. Markelle Fultz shot 41% from college 3. But his 64% FT shooting should have told people he was going to have issues in the NBA.

He's a good 3&D candidate.

If he could create off the dribble like Lebron or Durant, he'd being going top 3 not 8-12 where we're picking. If he could create he would be clearly superior to Doncic in every aspect, and Doncic's a top 3 guy.