Boozer and the PNR, video -- Double High Screen vid pg. 11

[kyrv]

I didn't read much after the first page so forgive me if this has been suggested, but why not have Noah cut into the lane every time Boozer's man dives? Boozer's a great passer and he can get Noah the ball for an easy lay-in or dunk. If the lane is to congested then there's the easy kick out to Deng/Rip. The problem is that Noah's man dives but Noah is usually already in the lane trying to get an offensive board, or spotting up for the tornado, and the defence is fine with Noah shooting that all day. As soon as Noah's man leaves him, that's when he should cut in to the lane.

That's definitely something that should be one of the options and would make the defense pay for playing the "cover one" (sorry Lovie ;p).

[alucryts]

Here is a video of a double high screen.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao6LvoWfNNQ[/youtube]

If Rose wanted he could have given the roll man in this play some excellent deep post position. However, the 3 point pop in this play was WIDE open to Deng and couldn't be ignored.

Can we do this with Noah in lineup(Noah waits in corner or elsewhere) and with Boozer and Deng on screen?

No you cannot. Noah's defender will turn the 3v3 of the double screen into 3v4. Noah has to be one of the screeners. If you want the Boozer PNR, you have to have Noah come up for the screen and just stay put the rest of the play.

[alucryts]

I didn't read much after the first page so forgive me if this has been suggested, but why not have Noah cut into the lane every time Boozer's man dives? Boozer's a great passer and he can get Noah the ball for an easy lay-in or dunk. If the lane is to congested then there's the easy kick out to Deng/Rip. The problem is that Noah's man dives but Noah is usually already in the lane trying to get an offensive board, or spotting up for the tornado, and the defence is fine with Noah shooting that all day. As soon as Noah's man leaves him, that's when he should cut in to the lane.

That's definitely something that should be one of the options and would make the defense pay for playing the "cover one" (sorry Lovie ;p).

If the defender leaves Noah uncontested, the best play is usually a wide open Boozer jump shot with Noah battling down low against a midget for an Orebound.

[jl342323]

I think this thread demonstrates that Rose isn't really the problem, so while he can still 'get better' I think most of my comments on Rose's PnR abilities were off base.

i wouldnt say that.

drose and boozer doesnt have the chemistry to run an effective pnr. its obvious when watching the game. and drose looks to me like he is still trying to balance his floor game and his scoring.

boozer has done terrific job finishing in traffic in utah. even though they had more spacing, people were still in boozer's face. in fact, their go to move at clutch time was pnr. defenses were gear towards stopping the easy buckets, which was boozer finish in the paint. boozer will finish with body on him when he gets the ball in hes sweet spot. its really not easy to stop 6'9 250 PF coming blazing at you, who can also finish with both hands.

accusing 'boozers fans' (very small amount. some are just rational thinkers) of scapegoating drose for boozer is kinda silly. i mean real silly

[Rerisen]

For Boozer to be dangerous enough on the pick and pop, he really needs to get those mid-ranges back up to where they were a couple years in Utah.

In 2010 he was at 44/44 FG% from the mid-range spots. But last year fell to 42/37. (10-15 feet and 16-23 feet respectively).

You look at Bosh and Garnett, those guys hurt you a lot from those spots. 44/45 for Bosh and 47/47 for KG.

Kurt Thomas filled in nicely at 43% / 47% from those pop locations.

[ManualRam]

the solution is very simple. more pick n pop, less pick n roll. if boozer becomes primarily a jump shooter, so be it. that's the only way he can consistently get good looks given his ability combined with the bulls make up.

[Rerisen]

accusing 'boozers fans' (very small amount. some are just rational thinkers) of scapegoating drose for boozer is kinda silly. i mean real silly

I don't think Deron on this team right now solves our PnR issues. That is pretty much ignoring all the evidence and everything written in this thread.

Read what Deron is saying about the PnR in NJ now without the proper cast around him on the floor. He's getting the Rose treatment, and he isn't liking it much at all.

[alucryts]

I think this thread demonstrates that Rose isn't really the problem, so while he can still 'get better' I think most of my comments on Rose's PnR abilities were off base.

i wouldnt say that.

drose and boozer doesnt have the chemistry to run an effective pnr. its obvious when watching the game. and drose looks to me like he is still trying to balance his floor game and his scoring.

boozer has done terrific job finishing in traffic in utah. even though they had more spacing, people were still in boozer's face. in fact, their go to move at clutch time was pnr. boozer will finish with body on him when he gets the ball in hes sweet spot. its really not easy to stop 6'9 250 PF coming blazing at you, who can also finish with both hands.

accusing 'boozers fans' (very small amount. some are just rational thinkers) of scapegoating drose for boozer is kinda silly. i mean real silly

To be fair, Rose tossing the pass to a wide open Boozer off of a PNR double team is going to be a better opportunity for Boozer than any PNR they could run. Boozer is just not the right type of player to really optimize that play while Kurt Thomas was. Also, if a team blitzes Rose off of the PNR, any sort of Utah PNR is out of the question as the correct play is tossing the pass to a wide open Boozer like he has. If any chemistry has to be developed for Rose and Boozer to make Boozer more effective it is on quick passes leading to cuts to the rim like he had in Utah with Deron. It's those plays that we don't have for Boozer right now. Those cuts to the rim off of quick passes were often the counter to their PNR and made their PNR more dangerous when they did run it.

[kyrv]

I think this thread demonstrates that Rose isn't really the problem, so while he can still 'get better' I think most of my comments on Rose's PnR abilities were off base.

i wouldnt say that.

drose and boozer doesnt have the chemistry to run an effective pnr. its obvious when watching the game. and drose looks to me like he is still trying to balance his floor game and his scoring.

boozer has done terrific job finishing in traffic in utah. even though they had more spacing, people were still in boozer's face. in fact, their go to move at clutch time was pnr. defenses were gear towards stopping the easy buckets, which was boozer finish in the paint. boozer will finish with body on him when he gets the ball in hes sweet spot. its really not easy to stop 6'9 250 PF coming blazing at you, who can also finish with both hands.

accusing 'boozers fans' (very small amount. some are just rational thinkers) of scapegoating drose for boozer is kinda silly. i mean real silly

This thread kind of demonstrates that the system is probably the #1 issue, and there's probably been way more Boozer scapegoating than Rose on the PnR. Does seem like Rose is running it "well enough" to rock.

[alucryts]

the solution is very simple. more pick n pop, less pick n roll. if boozer becomes primarily a jump shooter, so be it. that's the only way he can consistently get good looks given his ability combined with the bulls make up.

This seems like the most likely solution given the circumstances; I agree very much.

[Ajosu]

the solution is very simple. more pick n pop, less pick n roll. if boozer becomes primarily a jump shooter, so be it. that's the only way he can consistently get good looks given his ability combined with the bulls make up.

He loves getting people off balance. When he hits a few of those jumpers and draws the defense out, it seems like he follows that up with a pump fake and wide open drive to the lane. Granted, that drive might frequently be finished with a lost ball, blocked shot or "got damn!" but it started out nice!

[Rerisen]

This thread kind of demonstrates that the system is probably the #1 issue, and there's probably been way more Boozer scapegoating than Rose on the PnR. Does seem like Rose is running it "well enough" to rock.

And Rose is never going to run it as well as Deron and Paul anyway. So if we need him to for Boozer to be effective at all then we might as well amnesty him now.

Amare didn't fall apart when he left Nash and now has Toney Douglas.

But I don't think we need him to be Paul or Deron. Rose and Boozer worked the PnR well enough (and more so Boozer's overall numbers) simply to start the year last year when Boozer was healthy and Noah wasn't there. But the staff definitely has some thinking to do.

[alucryts]

the solution is very simple. more pick n pop, less pick n roll. if boozer becomes primarily a jump shooter, so be it. that's the only way he can consistently get good looks given his ability combined with the bulls make up.

He loves getting people off balance. When he hits a few of those jumpers and draws the defense out, it seems like he follows that up with a pump fake and wide open drive to the lane. Granted, that drive might frequently be finished with a lost ball or blocked shot, but it started out nice!

Also, I was surprised when I was looking at some video of Boozer post-ups off of passes from a Rose double team; he had some nice spin moves that I haven't seen in a long time from him. It will be interesting watching Boozer tonight with a clearer mind set/fresh start with him.

[Ajosu]

But I don't think we need him to be Paul or Deron. Rose and Boozer worked the PnR well enough (and more so Boozer's overall numbers) simply to start the year last year when Boozer was healthy and Noah wasn't there. But the staff definitely has some thinking to do.

Nah, the offense will take care of itself.

[Rerisen]

But I don't think we need him to be Paul or Deron. Rose and Boozer worked the PnR well enough (and more so Boozer's overall numbers) simply to start the year last year when Boozer was healthy and Noah wasn't there. But the staff definitely has some thinking to do.

Nah, the offense will take care of itself.

"We can live with missed shots" - D Rose.

But not too long Derrick, they kill you slowly.

[lukey90]

I have still hope for Noah's tornado and that is all we need.

One more thing: Noah has to be fast on PNR like here(I mean he is the fastest center)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgUJfEcufQI[/youtube]

[jl342323]

And Rose is never going to run it as well as Deron and Paul anyway. So if we need him to for Boozer to be effective at all then we might as well amnesty him now.

Amare didn't fall apart when he left Nash and now has Toney Douglas.

But I don't think we need him to be Paul or Deron. Rose and Boozer worked the PnR well enough (and more so Boozer's overall numbers) simply to start the year last year when Boozer was healthy and Noah wasn't there. But the staff definitely has some thinking to do.

as i have said many times, i believe boozer is a balanced scorer. utah didnt run that many pnr when boozer was there (compared to the league). it got highlighted even more b/c they executed them in clutch situations. i want bulls to run more pnr to simple give boozer some easy baskets and get him going offensively.

amare avged 19 FGA per game and had way more plays called for him than boozer. amare was their number one option and he had plenty of opportunities/freedom to capitalize on them. boozer in chicago is being used very poorly. hes getting a college three point line jumpers, but no elbow jumpers. hes not getting the lanes to attack the basket. hes not getting his usual FGA up. hes brought here to be a #2, at least give him the ball where he likes it.

good enough doesnt cut it. drose wants to be the best. i m gonna have a very high expectation for him. i dont know why he cant be better than dwill or cp3. hes what 23? dwill played all four years in very competitive big ten. and cp3 played two years at wake forest in pretty tough ACC. drose will be better than cp3 or dwill if he continues to improve, imo

[Rerisen]

good enough doesnt cut it. drose wants to be the best. i m gonna have a very high expectation for him. i dont know why he cant be better than dwill or cp3. hes what 23? dwill played all four years in very competitive big ten. and cp3 played two years at wake forest in pretty tough ACC. drose will be better than cp3 or dwill if he continues to improve, imo

Rose never played as a traditional point though. He's years behind in his learning, with far less of a natural gift for vision to start with. Calipari ran the dribble drive offense where everyone handled the ball.

Now in the NBA, as the leading scorer and playmaker, Rose has too many responsibilities to work on and areas to improve (3pt shooting, drawing FT's, finding his mid-range again,) than to just focus on passing, let alone a subset of it like PnR only.

He has to look to score in games much more than Paul or Deron, who are going to get many more reps actually running PnR, to keep them sharp and help them improve as well. But guys have ceilings. Otherwise, Nash would be averaging 17 assists by now. I just don't think Rose has the inherent tools to catch up to those guys as a passer. But they in turn, won't be his equal in scoring or a #1 option either.

Deron may well fall on his face as a #1 option this year in NJ with little help.

[jl342323]

drose has improved each year in very surprising fashion. i just think its way too early in his development to write him off as "never gonna be at cp3 or dwill level."

i see him putting great amount of effort into being a pure pg. he will get there with more experience and he will be an even better threat that those guys, if he shows he can improve at his current rate

Derrick Rose: “If I’m Not Trying to Be the Best I Might As Well Retire”

the guy is special

maybe im just overly optimistic, but this is what i see in him

dont think steve nash is a good example. he plays in a run and gun style offense, that is proven to inflate your number quiet a bit. and he went over double digit assists at his 9th season

[alucryts]

I have still hope for Noah's tornado and that is all we need.

One more thing: Noah has to be fast on PNR like here(I mean he is the fastest center)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgUJfEcufQI[/youtube]

Noah has some potential on the PNR imo like you point out here. That is a good example of what he can do. I bet in the next few weeks we are going to see Rip and Noah killing it on the baseline PNR off of Rip running around screens.